Dry Food That Does Not Contain Wheat, Corn Or Soy?

[dog0267]

Nutrience Derma has lamb as the sole protein source and rice as the carb

[Erny]

Mandela's poop went from brilliant (best I've seen for months and months and months) back to sloppy . Happens every time. The only variation seems to be how long it takes to happen. Dang it.

Although I've not quit trying on the food side of things, I'm very close to my next step, which (I think) will be endoscopy.

[JulesP]

Erny have you tried Natures Gift semi moist kibble? Only suggesting it as it is quite different from other kibbles. It claims to have a digestion aid in it.

From their website:

“In my experience Nature’s Gift semi-dry dog food with Biogestion5 is the first complete pet food that supports and maintains the digestive tract as well as delivering all the essential nutrients for your dog’s health and well being.

Researchers around the World have discovered the importance of specific prebiotics and dietary fibres in maintaining the health of the digestive tract as well as balancing the immune system.

Biogestion5 is a unique natural blend of selected prebiotics and immune modifiers that have been scientifically formulated to promote beneficial bacteria, reduce disease causing bacteria, improve food digestion, enhance nutrient absorption and support your pet’s defences against illness. In short – promote better digestion and gut health.

Linking the technology of Biogestion5 with the high quality ingredients used in Nature’s Gift pet foods ensures your dog receives all the essential nutrients necessary for a healthy and active life.”

Dr David Tivey

Senior Scientist B.Sc (hon), PhD

(Post doctoral training – Babraham Institute Cambridge UK)

[Staff'n'Toller]

Although I've not quit trying on the food side of things, I'm very close to my next step, which (I think) will be endoscopy.

Sounds like it's time.

[tlc]

Ive just read through this whole thread. it has been interesting reading. Erny sounds like a nightmare with your boy, I have one similar my oldest boy always been fussy (vets words) I think there is more to it but that remains to be seen.

I have had a few ups and downs with food and mine have been on raw meat & veg, cooked meat & veg RMBs etc but we have finally settled with eagle pack and all going well till we now find every couple of months the supply issue which is a pain in the butt. So once this bag is near to the end I am swapping to Nutro. I asked the company if they could send me some samples and they did. They were a hit and if the oldest boy likes something then I give it 100% as he is the "fussy" one.

I noticed another poster (can't remember who) saying about her dogs being hyper on a certan food. This last bag of Eagle pack I had was holistic and I have noticed that with my lot and I was wondering if it could be the food they just seem to have super energy and at times are just full of beans, not constantly but every now and then. Not to worried as we will be swapping soon.

I can really sympathize with you as it is so worrying when they wont eat, Cooper can go for days and sometimes I have to force feed him something to tasty to stimulate him to eat. He seems to be much better now he is on a dry diet. They also have RMB, chicken wings necks etc.

[tlc]

I just moved my two from Eagle Pack hollistic (due to supply issues) to Artemis (just the normal adult formula not maximal). It is like they are on speed!!!!!! As soon as this bag is gone they are definately going on something else. I had to change their excercise from 1/2 hour a day to an hour a day and they are still jumping off the walls.

What do you recommend that is similar to the Eagle Pack hollistic?

Although I've not quit trying on the food side of things, I'm very close to my next step, which (I think) will be endoscopy.

Sounds like it's time.

I agree, I would be tempted to have this done with Cooper but I think now as we seem to have stuck a balance, I'd do it if he needed another procedure done at the same time.

Might put your mind at ease and if they find something at least you would know what your dealing with!!

[fungrzz]

Hey guys,

I have about a 1/2-3/4 bag of EVO for small dogs (Chicken and Turkey) which is grain free if anyone in Sydney wants them... I know a lot of people don't buy it because of it's distributors but if you're looking for a change you can have my bag for free

My poor baby is on some medication which causes her to be susceptible to pancreatis so need to give her a very bland and home cooked diet so she definitely won't be needing it!

[noisymina]

Mandela's poop went from brilliant (best I've seen for months and months and months) back to sloppy . Happens every time. The only variation seems to be how long it takes to happen. Dang it.

Although I've not quit trying on the food side of things, I'm very close to my next step, which (I think) will be endoscopy.

Seems like it would be worth it. Certainly not normal for a dog to be so touchy with his food.

I'm wondering if you have tried yoghurt/probiotics at all with him?

[Titans]

Hi

I'm hoping to save a whole packet of time and trudging through sites to find out the answer to my question, so I thought I'd pop in here first as someone might have this answer right there at their fingertips.

I'm looking for a good quality dry food that does not contain wheat, corn or soy.

Anyone know?

BLACK HAWK HOLISTIC

LAMB & RICE HOLISTIC ADULT

100 % Australian Made

No Wheat No Corn No Soy

No Artificial Colourings

No Artificial Flavourings

No Artificial Preservatives

ANTIBIOTIC FREE -HORMONE FREE -NON GMO

Complete & Balanced

Pet Food Only

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein…25.00% (min) Crude Fat… 14.00% (min) Crude Fibre… 4.50% (max

Crude Ash … 11.0% (max) Phosphorus(P)… 1.50% (max) Calcium (Ca)… 1.45% (min)

Moisture… 10.00% (max) INGREDIENTS

Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Oats, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols source of Vit E,

Citric Acid Rosemary extract), Brewers Dried Yeast, Flaxseed meal, Fish Meal. Canola Oil, Emu Oil Dried Carrots

Dried Kelp, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Chicory, Yucca Shidgera Extract, Glucosamine Chondroitin Sulphate

Dried Blueberries, Dandelion, Peppermint, Rosemary, Tomato Meal,Zinc Oxide, Zinc Amino Acid Chelated, Iron Sulphate,

Vitamin A-Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement. Manganous Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement

Copper Sulphate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate,

Folic acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Biotin, Calcium Iodate Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carboinate.

This food is been fed to many kennels and boarding kennels across Australia, it is great especially for allergenic dogs and for their stools

i personally feed my dogs this and their stools at first were sloppy but thats because i was giving too much now they are great for us to pick up and for the dogs to expell. our dogs have maintain their weight and have improved in coat condition ever since the change to black hawk

i couldnt recommend this produc anymore. i think it says you have tried it but i must say it is great

for anyone else reading to get samples or to get some bags or get more details

Sheril Money 0400311139

Nick Luke 0418826256

[Erny]

Ok - so my boy seemed to enjoy the Black Hawk ..... UNTIL I went ahead and purchased the 20kg bag . I have unused dog food around the house everywhere - I almost need a special room (let alone freezers and cupboards) to store it in!!

Sorry Black Hawk - no reflection on your food. As I mentioned, my boy seems to be a 'special case'.

Anyway, I spoke with our Vet a week ago and we are putting together a plan which will likely blend a couple of necessary procedures together under the one GA - one of those possibly being an endoscopy and biopsy to diagnose (rule in or rule out) IBD.

But first we decided to try the Hills Science Z/D.

I came home with a bag of the kibble and also a couple of cans.

He ate the kibble quite enthusiastically initially and then, as seems to be his pattern, began to be less and less interested in it. But his poops have improved and this is great news, although I'm not sure how short lived that improvement will be.

I decided to try him with a can last night, into which I mixed a couple of handfuls of the kibble. Looooooved the stuff. Great . Did the same tonight (save that I mixed 3 cups of the kibble in with it), and he was going spare just to get at it (we do TOT and I was working him through one of his routines in the family/lounge room, and he barked his way through it, so gee'd up was he to be released to his meal awaiting him in the laundry). I haven't seen him so worked up for food for a long time and it was an absolute joy to see. Even better was the empty bowl afterwards .

I'm still fingers crossed. It is early days yet. If he continues to do well on this diet it does indicate a food intolerance (at least that's as I've understood it) and I'd rather that than IBD or any other more serious issue. Although if it is a food intolerence I'm not sure what food that leaves him to be able to eat, as I've tried just about every 'single protein' food available (to my knowledge) and I've tried those without the wheat, etc etc. But one step at a time - I'm sure I'll be able to work that out as we go.

Time (and money ;)) will tell.

ETA: I'm still waiting for him to do a poop for me to see what it is like, having now consumed the canned Z/D.

ETA: Has pooped. All is good .

Edited November 22, 2010 by Erny

[anniek]

Well that sounds hopeful Erny - wonder if he would eat ANY brand of kibble mixed in with the can?

I am happy to buy the black hawk off you if you like, as I am about to buy a big bag and dread to think what delivery will be to down here...lol

[Erny]

Well that sounds hopeful Erny - wonder if he would eat ANY brand of kibble mixed in with the can?

It would be interesting to know, Anniek. I have tried mixing his (various) kibbles (that he'd gone 'off') with his previous diet of cooked chicken (that he would eat) and that could be enough to have him turn away and refuse his food, no matter how much I took it away or how long after I'd offer it back to him (within the limits of the fridge life of the chicken). Regardless, this Z/D is a trial diet and he has to stay on that strictly for 6 weeks. We then go back to normal food - one protein at a time, to see what that does.

I am happy to buy the black hawk off you if you like, as I am about to buy a big bag and dread to think what delivery will be to down here...lol

The Black Hawk delivery is not expensive here - as far as I'm aware it is Victorian based so here would be the cheapest of anywhere.

I'd be happy to sell it to you, Anniek although I may need to keep a bit of it for "trialling" at some stage after the Z/D diet is completed. But don't feel obliged if you find the cost wasn't as much as you thought it was going to be for delivery.

[Staff'n'Toller]

You have a few options if it's food intolerance.

Hills D/d they are just making some improvements to this formula.

Royal Canin Hypoallergenic - basically the same as Z/d with the hydrolysed protein.

Royal Canin Sensitivity Control - was fish and tapioca - maybe it's another carbohydrate now?...I'd have to check.

[Rysup]

I know you've probably tried everything I did for my boy. Its so frustrating. I am so glad I have finally found a combination of things that works for Harry. He gets a handful of the Aldi Dog & Cat Mince (big bag) which says it can be lamb, kangaroo and/or beef. (No chicken). I mix a cup or two of Nutro Lamb & Rice through the mince. He is eager to eat it every meal, and it's firmed him up amazingly!! It is clear to me that he does not tolerate chicken or wheat.

I have trouble with treats, because they will give him the runs. At home he does not get treats. But I need to use food at shows, so have been trying duck and fish treats, but I still sometimes get a mild reaction to those.

[JulesP]

My pup that was refusing to eat kibble is now eating Pro Plan Sensitive. She has nearly finished a small bag of it. She was doing the same thing as your dog Erny. Eating a kibble at first and then going 'nope'. The only other kibble she seems happy to eat is the cat's EP Holistic!

[Erny]

You have a few options if it's food intolerance.

Hills D/d they are just making some improvements to this formula.

Royal Canin Hypoallergenic - basically the same as Z/d with the hydrolysed protein.

Royal Canin Sensitivity Control - was fish and tapioca - maybe it's another carbohydrate now?...I'd have to check.

Thanks SnT.

I did previously try the RC Intestinal (no luck - he turned off it) and also the RC Sensible (Sensitive Stomach) (Preferred this over the Intestinal but still not wholly successful). I presume these are different to the ones you mention above?

Last night I added a Z/D can to 4 cups of the Z/D kibble. He ate all of the can and all of the kibble that was 'basted' with the can, but left about 2 cups worth of the kibble (I think he licked some of the kibble clean too, going by the kibble pieces left laying around on the floor ). I usually pick up his uneaten food but forgot to last night and earlier this morning (before I got up) I heard him venture out to his "food room" (formerly the laundry but now been over run by dog food) and munch on the remaining 2 cups of kibble. Clean bowl this morning.

I do swear that, with the trouble I have had with his digestives over the past couple of years, that he has paired eating certain things with his uncomfortable belly. I am hoping that he's beginning to realise his tummy is not so uncomfortable now and that this makes eating these things easier and better. It is still very much early days. I had great success when I switched him over to the VAN prepared complete mix (for allergy dogs) and he went really well on that for 7 months, before he began to go off it and his poops went back to sludge. So we still have a road in front of us yet.

But I do so love to see him excited over his food. Reminiscent of his "pre 6 months of age" days.

So enthused he was last night for his can & kibble combo Z/D that he scratched the back of my leg in his eagerness to quickly comply with my 'heel' command (TOT). He was actually just a bit too OT. But I can work with that .

We've had a few hives appear in a couple of spots (at different times) in the last few weeks, but they've remained really small by comparison to previous outbreaks, and only about 4 - 6 at each time. They've also disappeared of their own accord without any treatment by me, within 24 - 48 hours. I'm still holding my breath that there could be a major outbreak just around the corner (major outbreak = hundreds of hives all over his body and legs), but I am really hopeful that perhaps my finding that he is low thyroid and having him treated for that, is making the difference.

If I can get through the next three months without a major outbreak, I will breath easier and be more confident I'm on the right track.

Rysup and JulesP - it is quite frustrating and such an expensive exercise, trying to cure/fix by trial and error feeding, and then trying to get something that will be the best for the long term.

Going by the feeding guide, Mandela should be receiving 7 cups of the Hills Science Z/D daily. I can substitute 1 can for a cup and a bit of the kibble, when I add it (one cup Z/D kibble = 5/8th can Z/D).

A 3.6kg bag of the kibble is about $57

One can is $3.50 - although I can save a whole $3.50 by purchasing a 'slab' of 12 cans. Yay!! Means I can afford half a cup of coffee!! :p

Honestly - I'm not really whining. I'll just be happy with whatever, if I can finally get Mandela on the right track to health. But it is amazing how expensive these things are and of course having a large dog breed, it adds up extraordinarily quickly. And of course, the only things that work for Mandela are the most expensive things on the shelf :p . At least they are there though. I remember with my previous girl Kal (bhcs) who became ill and there was nothing I could do that would fix her or give her more time. I remember how I envied anyone who had options available to them, so now I wouldn't trade my present situation. In a way, I thank my lucky stars .

Edited November 24, 2010 by Erny

[Staff'n'Toller]

I did previously try the RC Intestinal (no luck - he turned off it) and also the RC Sensible (Sensitive Stomach) (Preferred this over the Intestinal but still not wholly successful). I presume these are different to the ones you mention above?

Yes they are a bit different.

RC Intestinal (if it was the brown header) has the highest fat of any of the Prescription sensitivity related diets so it doesn't work on all food sensitive dogs. The do have a low fat version 7% fat vs. 20% of the regular intestinal diet. If you have skin signs though, the Hypoallergenic and the Sensitivity Control (which is Blue Whiting and Tapioca btw - just looking at it now) are both indicated for IBD/IBS/food elimination and dermatological issues. As alternative foods once you're finished the Z/d. In saying that though, I switched my skin problem dog over to Z/d Low Allergen and she ate that happily for quite a few years. Technically she should have 2-2.5 cups dry but she maintains very well on 1.5 cups a day of any of those foods.

The Sensitivity Control and Sensitive are quite different foods.

My Stafford won't touch Z/d cans so well done with that!

If you want copies of the product abstracts which have a lot of info on them I am always happy to fax them to you. You're welcome to pick up copies if you're going through Doncaster at some point also....I don't have a scanner unfortunately.

Nb: As the bag size goes up, the price per kg goes down markedly so if you need to continue, go as big as you can afford. Royal Canin also have a loyalty scheme get the 11th bag free.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Staff'n'Toller

[anniek]

I'd be happy to sell it to you, Anniek although I may need to keep a bit of it for "trialling" at some stage after the Z/D diet is completed. But don't feel obliged if you find the cost wasn't as much as you thought it was going to be for delivery.

Happy to buy whatever you don't want/need - you can put the $'s in your coffee fund

Can pick up/leave money at the kennels on the way home from work one afternoon if you like.

PM me?

[Erny]

I'd be happy to sell it to you, Anniek although I may need to keep a bit of it for "trialling" at some stage after the Z/D diet is completed. But don't feel obliged if you find the cost wasn't as much as you thought it was going to be for delivery.

Happy to buy whatever you don't want/need - you can put the $'s in your coffee fund

Can pick up/leave money at the kennels on the way home from work one afternoon if you like.

PM me?

I'm in between Boarding/Training dogs at the moment, so am at the kennels only for Pro-K9's Classes on Sundays until 19th December, which is the last training day before Christmas (then resuming 9th January). Let me know which Sunday would suit you to pick up and I'll leave the bag at the kennels for you then.

Please note I'm NOT at the kennels on 12th December as Pro-K9 as a stall/gazebo at the KCC Big Dog Day Out Event on that date. Classes are still happening, but I won't have gone there to be able to drop off the food.

20kg Bag cost me $80. I used about 2 bowls worth (at most, I think).

My number for contact is 0419 204 023

Cheers

Erny

SnT - thanks for the explanation. I'll bear that in mind. The Z/D advises that, after 6 weeks, to go back on to the diet your dog was on immediately before starting on the Z/D. I've already spoken with my Vet and told him I'll talk to him again as we get nearer that time because the "diet" Mandela was on was only cooked chicken and I don't actually class that as a "diet" - it was just that cooked chicken was about ALL he would eat at the time, so I don't really want to go back to that.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Erny

[noisymina]

All I can say is.........................

Coffee is very expensive down there!

But it's probably better coffee.

I've opened the Nutro I got - and started to mix it with the other kibble as a gradual change - even tho I only give a very small amount ...

And Kaisie has started to droool big time as soon a she sees the kibble cup come out.

Got to get it all outside very quickly before she drops drool all over the floors.