Erny Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm just glad I was telling you right, LOL. :D Well, I didn't doubt you for a second . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Long post - it is only an update on what has happened and what is happening with Mandela. A down-turn resulting in a change of tack diet-wise; and a report of subsequent current status. For those who are interested. Mention of use of Coconut Oil (organic - virgin - unrefined) made here too. Can't attest to it yet - early days, but might be useful hint that others might wish to research, look into and potentially use as well. Read on if you're interested and have the time, lol .... Some time has gone by and I must admit I've been reasonably happy (emphasis on the word "reasonably")with Mandela over the past 12 months or so. Hasn't had a bout of hives for, what is it? .... about a year and a half (save for the pop up of a few here and there which have disappeared without interference) and stools have been firm and absent of mucus to indicate any irritation for almost that period of time (must back track to see how long it actually has been). Anyway, I'd been keeping Mandela on the Z/D. Yes .... pricey, but saved me so much time and worry. Not just in the food preparation department but also in the treatment department where I used to be constantly dealing with hives, cysts, ears ... to soothe them and keep them from infection, not to mention spending what felt like the remaining time in my life running around the yard (sometimes under torch light) to see what his poop was like and hoping for one that I didn't have to scrape out of the lawn. So things were going reasonably well (a bit up and down on the appetite side, but that's ok) and I could well imagine that my custom could be responsible for any increase in share market prices in the Hills Science organisation. I would like to venture out and away from the constant Z/D feed regime though and so I opted to undertake Dr Jean Dodd's new salivary Food Intolerence Test. I have tried so many different food protein types with Mandela and so much was going on at the time that I have myself so confused as to what caused what or whether it was ok but just caught in the cross-fire of symptoms continuing from the assault of the previous foods. So, test done and Mandela came back with results showing Food Intolerance to Beef, Corn and Soy. The testing is not complete - it is brand new and only has a few things on its list that it can check for at the moment but that is expected to be expanded a bit more around Christmas time (Dr Jean is flat out, but this is what she is hoping for). So, Chicken? Don't know. Roo? Don't know. Same for all the other meats that I've tried but which haven't done much for Mandela, as Beef is the only one formerly tested. Back to the topic though and fast-tracking to approximately a week or so ago ... Mandela's body threw a hissy whilst on the Z/D (even after all his time) and another outbreak of hives occurred. Started as 4 or 5 hives. Over a few days, grew to 15 or 20 and increasingly faster began to increase in number and cover a greater area. Started on one side of his body at his flank, extended to up and down his thigh, then threatened to move to begin affecting his torso. Also began to affect the other side of his body in exactly the same pattern as I've described for the first. I kept the hives in check by at least not having them become secondary skin infections and also kept them from having Mandela going insane with itch, by using the Calendula Tea treatment I always prescribe to. This still helped us a lot, but I knew that something was causing the problem and until I could remove it, I was fighting a losing battle. The Calendula simply bought me a bit more time. I didn't initially think to look at Z/D, because it had done so well for Mandela, but (not without Dr Jeans assistance) did finally realise that it contained Corn Starch and SoyBean Oil, 2 of the 3 things that came up in Dr Jean Dodd's Food Intolerance test as things Mandela is intolerant to. I've removed the Z/D and gave him chicken. Ended up with a bad bout of diarrhoea and Mandela very obviously felt unwell. However, the hives didn't seem to be making further inroads across his body. So, what to do? Chicken = diarrohea/sloppy poop (as it did before the Z/D). Z/D = hives. Went to my laundry (which now almost has no room for anything other than all the food stuffs/brands/types I've bought in recent times but which seemingly didn't do what I needed it to do at the time) and had a look through my stock. Two types I had which were not beef and which didn't contain corn nor soy. Offered both, but the only one Mandela would eat was Black Hawk. Some might remember I tried this with him a good while back - the only problem at that time being that I was trying to firm up his stools. Didn't work at the time and probably because I'd introduced it too quickly. But desperation at the time, I needed something to work fairly quickly and so I (possibly mistakenly) turned away from it too soon. This time around though, he already had runny stools AND hive outbreak, so I decided to stick with it a little while longer. Seems Mandela isn't a huge kibble eater - he'll eat it if he's starving. I could afford a day or three of that because just before the outbreak on Z/D, he'd had an appetite burst (6-7 cans of Z/D a day + a cup of Z/D kibble .... would have had more if I'd given it but felt he would be over-doing it)and had put on weight - he looked fantastic, which meant I could (reluctantly) afford to let him drop a little whilst we tried sticking with it. What I also decided that I'd try was giving him Coconut Oil (organic - virgin - unrefined). Building up from one teaspoon and adding more as days go on. One of those teaspoons I actually melt and rub through the BH kibble, and this encourages him to eat it. I use the Coconut Oil to also rub over his body - mainly where the hives are, to sooth the skin and provide a protective, moisturising barrier. For all of this, I can't unequivocally say what is doing what. But I will say that inside two or three days, Mandela's stools have firmed right up and look healthy (there's a little bit of blood on the outside, but I'm not too concerned at this point - probably from the prior irritation his bowels have been assaulted with and/or blood vessel breakage due to prior straining. In addition, he hasn't lost too much weight and still looks well. Energy levels look pretty good but a decent run and work-out will prove that even more. Hives are small and appear to be receding. I touch wood at this - they can easily lull me to a false sense of security. But his coat actually looks deeply lusterous, and he smells deliciously like a lamington! This is just my update. I know that many have sung the praises of Black Hawk Kibble. I'd like to get Mandela on to some raw meat that he can tolerate and a more natural diet even if alongside Black Hawk, but that may not be possible. I have done some reading up about the Coconut Oil (remember, I'm emphasising and referring ONLY to the organic, unrefined stuff - the other stuff can be nasty, I believe) and note that it has similarities to the Calendula Tea, plus a whole lot more. In fact, I've started taking some myself - hoping for miracle youthful looks, lol. It has some good write ups for helping those who suffer arthritis, irritable bowel and a host of other things. *Dogs tend to love the Coconut Oil, so unless your dog is reasonably good at taking heed of your comments for him/her to not lick it off, it might be awkward to apply to wounds and/or irritated skin where s/he can get at to lick. Calendula Tea might be the go for this if this is the case for you. So, it is early days just yet and things could go either way, but hopefully we're on the right path to stopping Mandela from completely derailing and from what I am seeing right at the moment, I'm encouraged. Edited August 15, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Glad you are having success Erny. It is so individual though as Amber is allergic to Black Hawk, fairly sure it is the brewers yeast in it. I used coconut oil on my own head to repair my scalp after a nasty allergic reaction to shampoo. It is great as a leave-in treatment. I might try feeding it to Amber as I am having trouble with oils too with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Very interesting update. I hope Mandela keeps improving. I use BH and have found it works wonders for my old Allergy boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks. I do have a concern that there might prove to be no protein to which Mandela is not Food Intolerant to. I can only think that this will mean that over time, there will become no food that I can feed him, or at least that I will have to go the vegetarian route and for that I'm gonna need a lot of help and guidance so that all the right balance of vitamins and minerals can be provided. But time will tell and it's a case of taking things as they come. Fingers crossed. I've gotten him to 3yo without the use of chemicals and I do think he's a stronger dog in the health department than what he has been. I'm sure there's more twists and turns along the way, but in more ways than one, we learn so much from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Very interesting about the salivery food test, through elimination diets we worked out that my dog cannot have any grains but wheat is the worst, any poultry or beef. He gets itchy and very upset stomach. I had him on all raw but he never thrived, funny enough the ZD caused his stomach to be very upset and i had to go off it. I know use Earthborn Holistic Ocean Fusion and its basically the only kibble he doesnt get itchy on or have a upset stomach on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Very interesting about the salivery food test ... It is. I think that, especially once it becomes a more advanced/complete test, it will save a LOT of time and trouble. I like that it is not only something that doesn't take much time, but that it is also something that is non-invasive to the dog and helps to remove doubt. Edited August 15, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Very interesting about the salivery food test ... It is. I think that, especially once it becomes a more advanced/complete test, it will save a LOT of time and trouble. I like that it is not only something that doesn't take much time, but that it is also something that is non-invasive to the dog and helps to remove doubt. Yes i would like to know more, is there a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Dr Jean Dodds You can order the Saliva Test Kit on-line. Today's update : I'm having trouble getting Mandela to eat the Black Hawk kibble at all now, even when coated with the Coconut Oil. He still loves the Coconut Oil on its own though. I hope he gives in soon, as he is now beginning to look a bit too thin for my liking. Edited August 16, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Erny it is your fault! You wrote about it on here Pretty much every time I write that Amber likes a kibble she stops eating it the next day!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Lol ... yeah - for a long time I've been a bit paranoid about broadcasting good news, except I've found that it hasn't been lasting even when I don't say something, so I figure a whinge/vent or just sharing might as well take place . Mandela's energy level ebbed along the way of his walk, quicker than I'd have expected - but fair enough, he's barely eaten today. Hives still appear to be receding, so there's a plus. Poop (what there is to poop) is ok. There's another plus. Edited August 16, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Poor Mandela!! I cant imagine what it must be like to have a dog that does not like food, my 2 previous ridgies ate like machines and this lab of mine eats anything and everything that he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Got Mandela 'in' to his Coconut Oil coated Black Hawk kibble tonight (it was originally his breakfast). He ate the full quota of 2 cups (representing half of his daily quota, which is my goal amount for him to eat) and looking for more. I gave 2 more cups - he ate perhaps 1/2 cup. Mandela does love food. As a pup he couldn't get enough of it (except I had to hold it back, even though he was a skinny thing, because 3 days of him coming home with me he developed what became severe carpel laxity syndrome) and ate as though there were no tomorrow. He still carries this trait - even today and now, he shows me he is hungry, but unfortunately when presented with the foods he can have that is unlikely to upset his stomach, he is disappointed and not hungry for it. He would absolutely do somersaults for chicken at the moment, but that will bring on a bout of diarrhoea . But I'm happy he has at least eaten some food today and we'll give it a bit more time to see how things settle down before I look at doing anything different. I think the fact that I now don't panic/worry over him missing a meal here and there is very indicative of how much stronger he looks these days. Either that, or I've desensitised, <sigh> lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If my lab didnt eat i think i would panic he has never missed a meal in his life lol!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Since this thread first started I've actually started Amber on a food I haven't mentioned - Supercoat Sensitive. Yes, supercoat! I'm quite embarrassed buying it after all the expensive foods but it is the food she is doing the best on. Not sure if you have tried it Erny? It does have beef tallow which may be an issue but seems clear of other problem ingredients. Rice and Sorghum, poultry meat, beef tallow, real salmon and tuna, beet pulp, iodised salt, vitamins (A, D, E, K, B1, B6, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, choline, biotin, B12) and trace minerals (iron, zinc, copper manganese), mixed natural tocopherols (vitamin E), rosemary plant extract, lutein, whole linseeds, garlic and kelp. I think it is quite good as it has a pretty small ingredient list, a plus with allergy dogs I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) ... Edited August 17, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Not sure if you have tried it Erny? It does have beef tallow which may be an issue but seems clear of other problem ingredients. Beef has definitely proven an intolerant food protein, according to Dr Jean Dodd's test (and according to troubles I've had when I've fed it prior to the test), so even though it might be clear of other problem ingredients, it's not something that is likely to sit well with Mandela. I'll take things as calmly and as slowly as I can and will do what is possible to introduce one ingredient at a time. Not always possible, I know. Pure rabbit (not something I was able to source within practicable ways before, but have now been informed of a possible local source) is something that I intend to try next, I think. Just want to give things a bit more time to settle down. Have to see if the current bout of hives disappear before I do anything, otherwise I won't know what they relate to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Hey Ernie, It's been ages since I have been in... I'm glad to hear you have found something to help Mandela. Would you believe I actually came in here to tell you about coconut oil... but alas you have already discovered it. A friend of mine was only telling me about it yesterday and the benefits it can have to digestion. I can't remember now there's so much to this thread, but have you ever tried adding YAKULT to Mandela's dinner? Boof's biggest issue is wheat, but he also reacts to rice. I just avoid anything of the sort. He doesn't appear to have any protein intolerances thank god, but they don't get much beef, mainly chicken carcasses, roo tail, tinned salmon/tuna/sardines, marrow bones, roo mince, lamb hocks, occasionally a pork hock or beef soup bone and none of those cause us dramas. I add Yakult once a week to their tea and a scoop of yoghurt every other night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Erny would you like me to go hunt you some organic rabbits? I'm happy to go bump off and dress some fresh rabbit for your boy if you think it would help. Personally I would just get him right off dry food and what about vets all natural nutritional powder with cooked novel protein and plain rice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Thanks Nekhbet ... I would like to be able to source some fresh organic rabbit meat. I checked with the source I was recently informed of and they confirm that the rabbit meat they get in is treated with Preservative 223. I would like to get Mandela off dry food. No offence to Black Hawk as I believe that as a dry food, it is up there with the best and better of them. Getting to you on a regular enough basis could be a problem, Nekhbet - but I could do a trip to start with and see how things go from there. I would be grateful for the help. If he turned his nose up I'd at least know it was to the rabbit and nothing else whatsoever that was added to/with it. I will have to go look up all the VAN stuff I used, but I know I used the pre-packaged meat combo (for allergy dogs), a powder supplement, and Omega Blend Oil. He went really well on this for about 7 months and then his body did an almighty dummy spit and broke out into full blown hives. After that, he has turned his nose up on any roo meat, including roo tails which I used to supply as bones for him to chew on. Mandela's hives seem to be receding. He is still enjoying the Coconut Oil (which I not only also am eating but am also wearing .... lol, going through it fairly quickly). He's not looking too bad now, but still isn't thrilled with dry food. I don't like that I am basting it with coconut oil to encourage him to eat it - my tendancy is to trust his instincts. But I just had to have him eat something. I'm not sure what meat source is left to be able to be considered a "novel protein" . Hi Shelby-001. Thanks for posting. Seems beef is definitely 'out'. Pork does revolting things to his stomach. I'm not completely sure about lamb - lamb necks were one of the first meats he went off when he was younger .... I'm therefore not overly sure about Black Hawk for him, seeing as it comprises of lamb. It could prove negative with more time, although I hope not. I want to hasten slowly this time around with changing food proteins. I think I'll be less open to so much confusion. Maybe. Mandela is intolerant to cows milk - I'm avoiding anything dairy atm. The Food Intolerence Test that is available is not yet complete. More protein sources will be added to the test to expand it. I'm waiting for the next one to come out. I'm hoping the Coconut Oil proves to be the miracle food Mandela needs. I like to have something I can hang my 'hope' hat on . Edited August 21, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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