Working/working Line Dogs As Pets

[CrazyCresties]

My cocker was a working type - I believe they are more prevalent in the UK. A cocker forum I joined after getting him was full of warnings against getting the working type as a pet unless you had lots of time to spend on exercise and training them. My boy was the most laid back dog from the start - he would go full pelt when out, but was happy lounging around when at home I personally prefer the look of the working type cocker too.

[SpecTraining]

Most unexperienced/lacking knowledge peoplethink that if they get a working line dobe, mal, dutch shephers, working (pref black) GSD, rottie their dog automatically will perform a role of a personal protection dog. With no training, they are just born that way.

ARe you saying Rotties, dobes etc ARE that way or they aren't from birth? Just curious - not having a dig.

They are not born as fully trained personal protection dogs.

Those that pretend they are are most likely not stable enough and to reactive to be placid family pets.

Im not saying that a working dog cant be a family pet, but there are plenty of people there looking for their first dog and getting a working line one, they read about sharpness and calm deep full mouth grips and want one.

Usually for wrong reasons and usually with no knowledge on how to bring up such dog.

Traits of pronounced sharpness do make a natural protector as dogs of this nature are generally stranger aggressive and territorial. I have a client with actually a showline GSD who operates a factory on nightshift and takes the dog to work for security. The dog's behaviour as a pet towards it's own is no different than would be expected with any other pet, loyal, trustworthy and affectionate, but is a difficult dog to handle being highly stranger reactive. This type of dog does work well as a property guard without training, but as a personal protection dog worked with a handler is too reactive which presents a training challenge to control the dog in all circumstances.

[Nekhbet]

Most breeds have a working line, although it may not be as pronounced as in some other breeds

- gundogs/hunters - GSPs, Retrievers, most of the spaniels like springers etc

- Herding breeds - BC, kelpies, cattle dogs

- Guarding breeds - dobes, rotties, Mals, GSDs, BRTs, Briards, Giant Schnauzers, etc

This usually stems from the fact that many people want the breed without the full on workability in it, hence the distinction. Such a shame for some breeds as it can also give a false image of what the true breed could be like.

[RallyValley]

Most breeds have a working line, although it may not be as pronounced as in some other breeds

- gundogs/hunters - GSPs, Retrievers Goldens and Labs only the other retriever breeds are mostly dual purpose, most of the spaniels like springers etcSetters also are a major example!

- Herding breeds - BC, kelpies, cattle dogs

- Guarding breeds - dobes, rotties, Mals, GSDs, BRTs, Briards, Giant Schnauzers, etc

This usually stems from the fact that many people want the breed without the full on workability in it, hence the distinction. Such a shame for some breeds as it can also give a false image of what the true breed could be like.

[SpecTraining]

Because in some breeds, the 'working' element is now a bonus in showlines, where it should be a key factor in that dogs makeup.

(Show GSDs for example...I've seen so many fail working temperament tests its not funny).

Although I totally agree this is happening, but I don't conclude it's competely a "showline" issue but more the result of breeding the wrong dogs to maintain the correct working traits.

[lappiemum]

I'm interested to know why people people choose to get "working line" or working dogs as "pets".

By pet I mean, the dog does not have to perfom a function that is essential to the owners job or ability to be independent (eg service dogs).

I consider performance/dog sport dogs to be essentially pets and not working dogs.

Is it common to get a working-bred dog with the intention of competitng in dog sports, in the hope that the working dog will perform better?

Also, is it more effort to own a working line dog than a show/companion bred dog?

It depends completely on the breed.

Finnish Lapphunds are working dogs, still doing what they were bred for by the Sammi people (they are a very old breed!). However, part of their job was not only to herd reindeer and do utlility (and even a bit of hunting) work, but to be companion animals for the Sammi families - which is why they are especially great with children and why the breed is so popular in its homeland.

I know in Finland and Sweden now there is what are considered 'working' lines and 'show' lines (and the politics between them is robust, I'm told!). However, the breed register is still open in Finland, should some-one wish to pursue that (difficult, but not impossible), and personally, while I show my Lappies, we also plan to introduce them to herding - although granted, it won't be the style of herding Lappies was bred for as I don't have reindeer herds roaming in my backyard that I need to move over thousands of miles!

So my answer to your question is that with my breed, you can have both - but that is what they were bred to do, and this is not necessarily the same with other working breeds.

Oh, I got my breed because of their characteristics and temperament - the fact that they are a working dog with an 'off' switch, which is why we can have three in an inner suburban block in Melbourne, and the neighbours still like us! ;)

[lappiemum]

Because in some breeds, the 'working' element is now a bonus in showlines, where it should be a key factor in that dogs makeup.

(Show GSDs for example...I've seen so many fail working temperament tests its not funny).

Although I totally agree this is happening, but I don't conclude it's competely a "showline" issue but more the result of breeding the wrong dogs to maintain the correct working traits.

I agree

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I got a rescue ACD x.

Because I wanted a dog I could train. And one that wouldn't be too demandnig all the time.

I think I oops'd on the demanding thing. I've worked out a balance with her but she suckered some of my friends in.

But I'd prefer a working line - ie dog bred to be active and trainable over one bred to be essentially pretty. If show dogs get assessed more on performance (what can they do?) and temperment over appearence then I would consider show lines.

[Gayle.]

Australian Shepherds have show lines and working lines. Most of what's available here will be show lines, although they all go back to working lines. Occasionally a litter pops up that has either one or both parents with a direct line to the US working stock.

Benson is one, his sire is an import, bred directly from one of the big working US kennels. Benson looks different to other Aussies, but as a working dog he's a complete failure ROFL! He's terrifed of sheep.

Edited September 24, 2010 by GayleK

[4Kelpies]

I chose my working bred dogs because they have been bred to be smart, sound, good natured and willing to work with people. Generally they are full on when working but total couch potatoes when the job is done. Even when I'm too old to manage my property and have to move somewhere smaller I would still want to keep Kelpies as pets.

[BMAK]

what exactly are the breeds that would be considered to have a seperate working and show line? Obviously it could be argued all breeds should only have one line , but when you're counting on you're dogs to make a living or your life depends on them, i think it is inevitable that a seperate working type is developed.

So far i can only think of

GSD

Malinois

Border Collies

Kelpies

possibly labradors- I know in america they have seperate working dogs (Marley style lol) and also many service dog orgs breed their own labs, resulting in dogs that have higher successs rates but are possibly not show-worthy.

with the kelpies they are the same line of dogs but they go way way back and from there on they were bred to be i think less of a high instinct that are a more compainion dog and built differently for different reasons and they only allow show dogs to be solid colours so blacks and red etc are only allowed to be shown not sure why my kelpie whos a blk n tan is just gorgeous and i would have loved to show her..

anyways some people just prefer that type of dog but when you own or get one you have to remember their purpose, because its inbuild into them from their line some arnt as high drive or instinctively born to herd or work. but if you own one you may have to work them mentally alot more then physically? due to there breeding and type

[dancinbcs]

what exactly are the breeds that would be considered to have a seperate working and show line? Obviously it could be argued all breeds should only have one line , but when you're counting on you're dogs to make a living or your life depends on them, i think it is inevitable that a seperate working type is developed.

So far i can only think of

GSD

Malinois

Border Collies

Kelpies

possibly labradors- I know in america they have seperate working dogs (Marley style lol) and also many service dog orgs breed their own labs, resulting in dogs that have higher successs rates but are possibly not show-worthy.

with the kelpies they are the same line of dogs but they go way way back and from there on they were bred to be i think less of a high instinct that are a more compainion dog and built differently for different reasons and they only allow show dogs to be solid colours so blacks and red etc are only allowed to be shown not sure why my kelpie whos a blk n tan is just gorgeous and i would have loved to show her.. anyways some people just prefer that type of dog but when you own or get one you have to remember their purpose, because its inbuild into them from their line some arnt as high drive or instinctively born to herd or work. but if you own one you may have to work them mentally alot more then physically? due to there breeding and type

Don't know where you heard that about the colours. Quoted directly from the ANKC Kelpie breed standard under colours:

"Black, black and tan, red, red and tan, fawn, chocolate, and smoke blue", so all those colours can be shown.

[corvus]

I would never get a show line Siberian Husky because they just don't float my boat, but man, those working line huskies are very easy on the eyes as far as I'm concerned! And they look so happy sledding.

[Souff]

I'm interested to know why people people choose to get "working line" or working dogs as "pets".

This question needs to be directed to animal behaviourists and dog trainers.

They are the people who ask the pet owners who are seeking help because their working dog/pet has driven them and their neighbours round the bend because the dog is bored witless and is probably not going to agility training etc.

Pounds to peanuts, one of the first questions the owner will be asked will be something like: "Why did you buy this type of dog as a pet?"

Souff

[Tilly]

I have 2 working line GSD's. The older is a retired security dog.

The youngest was brought with the view of being a security dog and was the pick of the litter from a police dog father and a security dog mother ... and then my brother decided he wanted to get out of security.

They are beautiful natured dogs and I wouldn't swap them for anything (most of the time) but they are hard work. It takes a lot of work to stop them from becoming bored and destructive. They are definately not dogs you could just put in the backyard and forget about.

[noisymina]

Most of the people in this thread "work" their dogs even if they don't get paid for it!

I think some pet homes buy working lines when they shouldn't. I have a cousin that bought a w/l border collie because they are "very smart". They didn't seem to realise that "very smart" means "a lot of work to manage".

Breeders who sell W/L dogs should be very careful who they sell to - because a lot of dog buyers don't really know what they're getting in for.

I'm interested to know why people people choose to get "working line" or working dogs as "pets".

This question needs to be directed to animal behaviourists and dog trainers.

They are the people who ask the pet owners who are seeking help because their working dog/pet has driven them and their neighbours round the bend because the dog is bored witless and is probably not going to agility training etc.

Pounds to peanuts, one of the first questions the owner will be asked will be something like: "Why did you buy this type of dog as a pet?"

Souff

Yep. My next door neighbour surrendered her dog a couple of weeks ago.

I "walked" it home after it got through the fence.

From the photos here, I'd say it had a bit (or a lot) of Aussie Sheperd in it. Definitely working dog.

Given to elderly lady as a pup, by her son who, I think, was the "breeder". No adequate fencing to contain it, no work for it to do, and her "training" methods made me cringe. And I'm a rank amateur.

While I walked it home she's saying "Gee. I don't have that patience". Yeh. Not enough to even teach it to walk on lead.

She was actually having a problem holding it on lead as it was pulling and plunging - which is why I was waliking it home.

It grew bigger than she wanted it to. So what were the parents like? Oh the mother is a "lovely dog". Umm. And the father? Oh, we don't know what the father was like.

All I could do was agree that is was not a suitable dog fer her. Was not game to ask about her son posibly finding another home for it.

By comparison, any home that gives them a job to do - even if it is trialling, agility etc.....is better than that one!

[aus_k9gsd]

So can a WL dog be happy in a "pet" only home- no dog sport or competition work, but regular exercise and basic manners-type training?

What about in a "performance" home?

Maybe it depends on the dog & the breed. For a WL mally, I'd say no, the dog would in most cases not be happy in a pet only home. To keep happy they need things to do with their bodies & with their minds. In a regular home situation like you describe, my girl would probably become quite destructive. As my girl's breeder said to me, if you don't give a WL mally a job to do, they will make one up - and most times, you won't like it.

A true performance home, where the dog was trained extensively & regularly, & allowed to use its natural drives, would be OK.

I have a working line mal here in a pet home, she has been trained since she was a pup to go to one of the defense forces and most of her litter are already with raaf, but has ended up living here the last few months and she is fantastic as a pet, she is great with the little dogs, keeps my shepherd fit and would be quite happy laying on the lounge all day with you the big sook

[silentchild]

After reading all the replies in this thread.. I have an incredibly stupid question, please bear with me.

It seems there are breeds who have working line and show line (Rotties, Huskies, Dobes, GSDs etc etc), but is there any way to tell a working line dog from a 'pet' dog, besides referring to the breeder? For example if you were out walking and you passed a GSD, would you be able to tell just by looking on it if it was from a working line, show line or pet?

Or does 'working line' simply refer to the breed, ie. all Rotties are automatically working dogs etc.?

Edited September 24, 2010 by silentchild

[aussielover]

well imo, you could probably tell a working line GSD from a show line (working lines tend to have a straighter back), and also working line kelpies have a different look to the show lines being lighter and leaner and often black/tan or red/tan (not a popular show colour)

working BCs also have a different look- they are not as fluffy as the show BCs.

I think in general working dogs tend to be leaner and more agile and athletic looking

[jesomil]

There is a big difference in most of the working/show lines and you could defiately tell most of the time if you saw a dog walking down the street.

There is also a working dog group in showing which includes dogs which were originally bred to work. This is different to working line which are dogs which are primarily bred for their working ability only.