Morning Tea For The Judge & Steward/s

[TessnSean]

If the competitor is on the committee or some who has volunteered to help out, then it is part of what they have offered to do on the day. If they regularly do it simply because they are competing in that ring, then I don't see a problem. It is a nice thought and a gesture of appreciation for the judge and steward. They can obviously deal with the outsider perception by some that they are using the offer of food to be noticed when they compete. I very seriously doubt that the scones and jam would have them up the line for a better result.

I showed horses for 30 years and only started showing dogs 14 months ago. I have a very long way to go before I know everybody. Know a number of newbie competitors who would say the same thing. Saying that everybody knows everyone is just one of the many assumptions that have appeared on this and other threads.

[Mandalay]

Scones with jam & cream................wake up to yourselves.

When I am stewarding next time I bloody want Scones and I do not care who serves them....

These people may have lost and laced the scones with laxatives....

[Ceilidh]

LOL I was stewarding for a judge when she asked me what I thought....I can't tell you was my reply...one of then is my daughter. I didn't tell her she'd put my daughter up first!

All jokes aside, in NSW you CANNOT steward in the same ring as any family who is showing. And quite frankly I would have protested if I was in that lineup.

But back to the original posting, you are conspicuious by your absence. Maybe you could come back and explain why you are upset with someone supplying the judge and steward with refreshments?

Even at a local Pony Club Show?? They dragged me into it at the last minute, I was there to help my daughter not Steward...they were lucky to have me LOL!

At most Horse Shows I've been involved with Commitee doesn't show, yet Dogs Committees make a point of stating this on the Gazette? Is it a rule or not?

Sorry, thought you were referring to a DOG show! I know nothing about horse shows that is why I am on a DOG forum.

[fifi]

Becks, most country shows around here have an esky in the ring all day, with bottled water & other drinks in ice.

fifi

[LizT]

LOL I was stewarding for a judge when she asked me what I thought....I can't tell you was my reply...one of then is my daughter. I didn't tell her she'd put my daughter up first!

All jokes aside, in NSW you CANNOT steward in the same ring as any family who is showing. And quite frankly I would have protested if I was in that lineup.

But back to the original posting, you are conspicuious by your absence. Maybe you could come back and explain why you are upset with someone supplying the judge and steward with refreshments?

Even at a local Pony Club Show?? They dragged me into it at the last minute, I was there to help my daughter not Steward...they were lucky to have me LOL!

At most Horse Shows I've been involved with Commitee doesn't show, yet Dogs Committees make a point of stating this on the Gazette? Is it a rule or not?

Sorry, thought you were referring to a DOG show! I know nothing about horse shows that is why I am on a DOG forum.

Fair enough! It is a DOG forum...Tilly mentioned horses at the Sydney Olympics and I jumped on that! LOL

[LizT]

Doesn't look good, when done to just the ring they will later be judged in - it's up to the committee to provide refreshments to the judge.

Hope the judge washed their hands after having a cream scone - imagine trying to get the jam out of your dogs coat!

Not in Australia becks. Some of our country shows are quite laid back.

I have had judges call me to the ring and ask me to organise a drink of some sort and I didn't win.

I have had judges tell me often about shows where they had to ask exhibitors to get a cold drink for them.

Some shows are just poorly run and/or don't have enough people to help.

Must have been good a show to get morning tea delivered.

Really? It is so difficult for the secretary to buy a crate or 2 of bottled water?

I'm on a committee who runs a successful Premier Open show (probably averages similar numbers to your champ shows), we do this with 6 committee members at the show who are stewarding, providing refreshements for judges/stewards along with the necessary paperwork that goes with the show day and all the other little jobs. We are there early to set up the rings and tidy up at the end of the day.

It's just courtesy to see the judges are being taken care of on the day - they judge for no payment and usually aren't offered any fees to cover their expenses.

At the end of the day, we have all paid the same fee to enter under that judge, we should all be given the same time and consideration by the judge - in return we should all treat the judge in the same manner.

Does the exhibitor who turns up with a present for the judge (be it cake or $100!!) expect their win (should they recieve a win) to be untainted by their actions? The show world is full of rumours, accusations etc etc so why add fuel to that fire?

Is that the case here??? Do Dog Judges not get paid "something"? Horse Judges do, although some often decline payment to support a small Club, but for the most part the Committee gets the checkbook out, covers travel and pays for accomodation too.

Also NEVER seen an exhibitor give a gift to the Judge??!! Often the Committee does though by way of a "Thank You", bottle of wine or a nice pot plant.

But getting back to the original OP, I see nothing wrong with an Exhibitor (who is yet to show in front of that Judge)carrying the tea tray ,so to speak, provided, all the rings are equally taken care of and it's provided by the Committee and they are not just trying to score "Brownie points".

Edited September 24, 2010 by LizT

[LizT]

If the competitor is on the committee or some who has volunteered to help out, then it is part of what they have offered to do on the day. If they regularly do it simply because they are competing in that ring, then I don't see a problem. It is a nice thought and a gesture of appreciation for the judge and steward. They can obviously deal with the outsider perception by some that they are using the offer of food to be noticed when they compete. I very seriously doubt that the scones and jam would have them up the line for a better result.

I showed horses for 30 years and only started showing dogs 14 months ago. I have a very long way to go before I know everybody. Know a number of newbie competitors who would say the same thing. Saying that everybody knows everyone is just one of the many assumptions that have appeared on this and other threads.

So true...and the Dog World is sooooo much larger than the Horse scene.

[Blakbelgian]

When my OH is stewarding & I am entered he is allocated to a different group.

During the day I may have a quick word to him about something otherwise I can ignore him all day. :laugh:

BB

[Dogsfevr]

Is that the case here??? Do Dog Judges not get paid "something"

yes judges can ask for a judging fee some from reasonable to to many clubs set limits in there contracts.

many don't or hand it back as a donation.

[fifi]

I think Beck's mentioned Open show in her post, which is usually fee free.

With the champ shows, there are many generous judges who refuse their fee or donate it back :-) or just accept enough to cover their costs.

(which can really add up....suit dry cleaning, airport weekend parking fees, petrol to the airport when they live hours away from one, extras not always covered when a judging at a show - like food & beveridges at air ports, taxis ect.)

sorry...went OT there !!

fifi

[LizT]

I think Beck's mentioned Open show in her post, which is usually fee free.

With the champ shows, there are many generous judges who refuse their fee or donate it back :-) or just accept enough to cover their costs.

(which can really add up....suit dry cleaning, airport weekend parking fees, petrol to the airport when they live hours away from one, extras not always covered when a judging at a show - like food & beveridges at air ports, taxis ect.)

sorry...went OT there !!

fifi

Which is fair enough as if they do it often it can be quite a burden and sour it if it's a constant financial drain.

[*Bones*]

Have you ever served on a dog club committee Rottsup? Do you have any idea how much work needs to be done to put on and run a show and how few people are available to do that work?

Honestly

But hang on a minute I suppose it's perfectly possible that there were a couple $100 notes secreted under the cream in one of those scones

And a photo of the dog and his number under the saucer

Must confess wouldn't go within shouting distance of either steward of judge of the ring where I was exhibiting, because that is how nasty rumours start.

And if my lack of assistance caused a judge to die of heat stroke, so be it

Honestly

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I dunno

The dog agility scene here seems very small even though we can be running four rings or more all day. See the same people and judges at each one. And given one of the judges is one of my instructors, of course she introduces me to the other ones. I help steward - cos I'm not yet competing in anything but mock trials...

The secretary was up to her eyeballs sorting competitor numbers, and then results, the Technical Director was running here there and everywhere trying to make sure each ring had enough stewards. I refused to be a timer cos I've got spastic fingers and occasional lapses in concentration and I know I bugger up things like that. For obedience I'm setting up rings and ferrying out "props", and trying to organise shade - next show I'm at - I'm BYO shade.

One volunteer showed up to steward - with her dog. Um. That didn't work.

Mostly it's more like chaos than organised and at the end - there's some results. Once we got going in the agility ring I was doing - it was super fast. But that was mainly down to a very experienced judge, and timer, and the competitors - also experienced since it was open/masters and they all helped with everything from setting the jump heights to getting the order sorted (gets tricky when people run out of order because they have loads of dogs in different rings). Competitors were also fetching drinks for the judges and stewards. Although sometimes us stewards could do a run between classes / heights.

This is at club level - but it counts towards state comps. I think.

But in my experience with certain dog breeders - they do know each other and who is showing what etc. Of course a newbie wouldn't know everybody but I'd be willing to bet the long time competitors would notice you.

I suppose the show ring is different? But from what I've seen - not really. Maybe competitions that are judged more on a subjective opinion of doggy appearance are prone to more perception of favourtism? Like ice skating used to be? Where as stuff like agility and obedience at the basic level - it's obvious to everybody when a dog gets it right. Although I have trouble knowing if the contacts are right or even if all the poles got done right in the weaves with a fast dog - just as well I don't judge. Or maybe it's practice.

[becks]

I think Beck's mentioned Open show in her post, which is usually fee free.

With the champ shows, there are many generous judges who refuse their fee or donate it back :-) or just accept enough to cover their costs.

(which can really add up....suit dry cleaning, airport weekend parking fees, petrol to the airport when they live hours away from one, extras not always covered when a judging at a show - like food & beveridges at air ports, taxis ect.)

sorry...went OT there !!

fifi

Which is fair enough as if they do it often it can be quite a burden and sour it if it's a constant financial drain.

Yes, I mentioned open shows, but unless the judge is giving tickets at a champ show, then they will not get paid any expenses. Last month I judged at SKC champ show, no tickets for the breed I judged, so I had to pay for the petrol used on the 4+ hours drive there and 4+ hours drive home, for my trouble i got a cup of coffee on arrival and a not very good lunch.

For comparison, our open shows usually have 300-500+ entries, champ shows about 8,000 entries

[SkySoaringMagpie]

What I've done in the past is locate a member of the committee and say "judge needs water/panadol/insect repellent/whatever". If they ask me to run it down to the ring I will, you don't have to interact with the judge and I don't see a problem with interacting with the steward.

I have given pens to stewards whose pen has run out and gone and got ribbons when group is about to start and done other things like that. Figure that is about the show not sucking up to the judge. If someone thinks a steward can influence their judge they should have a think about why they entered IMO.

And I know what a pain in the neck it is as a steward to be stuck in the ring and needing someone to run a message. I know people can be stupid, but if you didn't give the judge a scone and bikkies they'd probably make something up about you sleeping with them anyway!!! Better to go with the benign option

I do think it is bad form to chit chat to the judge from ringside if you are exhibiting under them. Plenty of time for chats after the judging.

EFS

Edited September 24, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[yarracully]

When my OH is stewarding & I am entered he is allocated to a different group.

During the day I may have a quick word to him about something otherwise I can ignore him all day. :rofl: :D

BB

Yeah but your only using that as an excuse to ignore him.

[oakway]

Doesn't look good, when done to just the ring they will later be judged in - it's up to the committee to provide refreshments to the judge.

Hope the judge washed their hands after having a cream scone - imagine trying to get the jam out of your dogs coat!

Not in Australia becks. Some of our country shows are quite laid back.

I have had judges call me to the ring and ask me to organise a drink of some sort and I didn't win.

I have had judges tell me often about shows where they had to ask exhibitors to get a cold drink for them.

Some shows are just poorly run and/or don't have enough people to help.

Must have been good a show to get morning tea delivered.

Really? It is so difficult for the secretary to buy a crate or 2 of bottled water?

I'm on a committee who runs a successful Premier Open show (probably averages similar numbers to your champ shows), we do this with 6 committee members at the show who are stewarding, providing refreshements for judges/stewards along with the necessary paperwork that goes with the show day and all the other little jobs. We are there early to set up the rings and tidy up at the end of the day.

It's just courtesy to see the judges are being taken care of on the day - they judge for no payment and usually aren't offered any fees to cover their expenses.

At the end of the day, we have all paid the same fee to enter under that judge, we should all be given the same time and consideration by the judge - in return we should all treat the judge in the same manner.

Does the exhibitor who turns up with a present for the judge (be it cake or $100!!) expect their win (should they recieve a win) to be untainted by their actions? The show world is full of rumours, accusations etc etc so why add fuel to that fire?

Becks, some of our champ show are run by Agricultural Societies and may be over several thousand Kilometers inland.

Club shows are often better organised.

Some of these shows may attract less than a hundred dogs due to their location.

A steward and a writer for the one ring is that is all needed to get the show under way. ;)

I have heard judges come back from some of these shows saying how inadequate the facilities are.

But they also say these people are entitled to have their dog show, even if they the judge suffer a bit.

[conztruct]

I do understand what the original question for the thread is getting at but if a judge's decisions are going to be influenced by an exhibitor giving them morning tea - I think the appropriateness is with the judge's ethics rather than someone showing a little courtesy and providing them with some comfort - after all they're usually standing out there for hours. Sure - politics of this nature probably happens in shows but I think everyone beats it up and assumes it happens way more than it does - it's an exception rather than the rule. Most of the politicking happens between the exhibitors who waste all their energy on this type of rubbish.

Sorry if it offends but I think taking exception at something like that and the insinuation and assumption it's going to result in a biased outcome is a cop-out and a convenient excuse for someone to use if they don't win. Not saying that's necessarily where the original poster was coming from or meaning (I don't like to make assumptions) but I really think this is a nice gesture and if the exhibitor thinks it's going to get them somewhere, I think that's even sadder - LOL.

[suezija]

On the weekend I showed my dog on the Friday under judge No1. Got class in group.

On Saturday I showed under Judge no2, won BIG, then wrote for two more groups in the same ring for the same judge.

At lunch time I was eating my lunch along with other stewards and writers when I was asked (politely) to please take my lunch outside to eat as Judge no1 was at the table and he was judging GS later that day and as I has won BIG I would therefore be showing under him later.

Apparently someone had complained.

Does that not reflect on the integrity of the judge? Can I influence him just by sitting at the same table?

If only it was so easy to win.

Oh well!!!

[Dogsfevr]

At lunch time I was eating my lunch along with other stewards and writers when I was asked (politely) to please take my lunch outside to eat as Judge no1 was at the table and he was judging GS later that day and as I has won BIG I would therefore be showing under him later.

Apparently someone had complained.

Actually i would never have placed the judge in that position anyway.As soon as they had entered i would have politely excused myself

Our clubs always had a rule not to eat with the judges if exhibiting & that also applied to the stewards