Why Do People Want To Breed Their Pet Dog?

[Ker]

A girl my brother knows surrendered her 10 month old cocker to me. Because she was "buying an American bulldog pup, and we're going to be breeders!" I knew what she was doing and said "oh cool, what have you chosen as your prefix?" Blank look. "you know, your kennel name?" "oh w're not bothering with all that". I said "oh, I see, you're not going to be a real breeder, just a backyardie? Oh. Well, I wouldn't buy a BYB pup".

They did get their pup. It ran away. Clever puppy!

[MalteseLuna]

One person with a malti-cavoodle (yes, you heard right), wanted to breed with a purebred malti-cavoodle because they make such great pets.

Health tests? "she is perfectly healthy, she has been vet checked" Yet I can see stains around her eyes...

Temperament? "don't let your big dog over near her, she doesn't like big dogs"

Whilst I agree with the sentiment - tear staining in a Maltese (or swf) doesn't mean there is something wrong with the dog or that the dog shouldn't be bred from. Most vets will say 'all white dogs' have staining and that it's normal.

There is this excuse:

Because [insert pet name here] is awesome and I would like to have a son/daughter from [insert pet name here]

I'm quite frustrated with a pair of really good friends whom I've known since high school - they got a Dachshund which is now ~1.5 years old whom they proudly got from a non-registered breeder as they didn't want an 'inbred' dog from a show breeder (after watching that BBC documentary). They were planning to desex her but have now decided they want a litter because they want to keep some of the puppies and give some away to friends (for free). I've already told them why they shouldn't... made no difference. Apparently their vet said to wait till she was two.

Now the dog is sweet but she is totally un-socialized, scared of any other dogs (even my Maltese who is about 1/2 it's size), is quite submissive and pees whenever people come over to their house etc. They don't know anything about canine reproduction - rushed her to the vet when her 'privates' got all swollen because she was in heat.

Makes me want to slam my head against a wall... but nothing can be done.

If I say anything about it they just say " but you want to breed Maltese in a few years... why can you but not us"... difference being I want to show + be registered etc and do everything right.

[claireybell]

Friend of mine posted on facebook that her bitch had a boyfriend over and they were hoping for puppies. I rang her and asked all about her prefix, health tests, lineage, etc. I was really excited for her. Then I realised she had no idea, wasn't registered and was doing it because she thinks her dog is so awesome. I was furious! I'm not a breeder and I dont know alot about it but I explained a few things to her that i had learned from DOL. She didn't care. Luckliy her bitch hated the "boyfriend" and within a few minutes they were trying to kill each other. The mating never happened and she hasn't tried again.

Hopefully its stays that way

[Staranais]

Line breeding is a way of ensuring the phenotype is maintained in the dog. Unfortunately unless you are careful and know the lines well you could be doubling up on any possible genetic problems. However introducing an outcross you could be bringing in something you don’t have now.

In J Isabell - “Genetics - An Introduction for Dog Breeders” – she describes the best line breeding as being the successful grandfather to the most successful grand daughter – mostly because it is only in his old age that his genetic strengths and weaknesses are known.

That is a great explanation.

[YOLO]

So the world is full of idiots, there’s a surprise.

The problem is, if we don’t like puppy mills, and we don’t want to wait a year to get some overpriced inbreed from a snooty breeder what are the choices?

And PLEASE don’t say a pound puppy. That just makes no sense. How the wild offspring of feral dogs is better than breeding your pet, I don’t know.

The “head in the sand” attitude of many breeders continues to amaze me. Outside of Show circle, the term “Registered Breeder” is just an alarm bell to many people. For your average dumb-schmuck member of the public they assumed that buying an expensive “pedigreed” from a breeder represented a quality product, and so unfortunately the horror stories proliferate. Some breeds in WA have been decimated by the poor practices of registered breeders, to the point that cross-breeding is the only way to get a pup that will live more than a few years. It’s no wonder that Mr & Mrs Joe Public are turning to SpaniCavmagnadoodles.

I think that properly regulated, home breeding is a great thing. If I had a pedigreed bitch, I would like to see her have puppies, provided that both she and the sire were certified as free of genetic defects.

The problem is that we have absolutely zero regulation of dog breeding, and as the OP laments any drongo can breed any pair of mongrels. Even the concept of “Registered Breeders” doesn’t actually impose any significant restrictions on poor breeding practices. I’d like to see laws such that only government registered breeders could own unneutered dogs, that the dogs must be certified free of genetic flaws, and that premises must comply with certain health standards.

I also think that Pedigree Breeders should get on the front foot, clean-up their own house by kicking out unethical breeders, and do more to promote ROBUST Pedigree animals as Pets.

[AmandaJ]

So the world is full of idiots, there’s a surprise.

The problem is, if we don’t like puppy mills, and we don’t want to wait a year to get some overpriced inbreed from a snooty breeder what are the choices?

And PLEASE don’t say a pound puppy. That just makes no sense. How the wild offspring of feral dogs is better than breeding your pet, I don’t know.

The “head in the sand” attitude of many breeders continues to amaze me. Outside of Show circle, the term “Registered Breeder” is just an alarm bell to many people. For your average dumb-schmuck member of the public they assumed that buying an expensive “pedigreed” from a breeder represented a quality product, and so unfortunately the horror stories proliferate. Some breeds in WA have been decimated by the poor practices of registered breeders, to the point that cross-breeding is the only way to get a pup that will live more than a few years. It’s no wonder that Mr & Mrs Joe Public are turning to SpaniCavmagnadoodles.

I think that properly regulated, home breeding is a great thing. If I had a pedigreed bitch, I would like to see her have puppies, provided that both she and the sire were certified as free of genetic defects.

The problem is that we have absolutely zero regulation of dog breeding, and as the OP laments any drongo can breed any pair of mongrels. Even the concept of “Registered Breeders” doesn’t actually impose any significant restrictions on poor breeding practices. I’d like to see laws such that only government registered breeders could own unneutered dogs, that the dogs must be certified free of genetic flaws, and that premises must comply with certain health standards.

I also think that Pedigree Breeders should get on the front foot, clean-up their own house by kicking out unethical breeders, and do more to promote ROBUST Pedigree animals as Pets.

Excuse me but "snooty" not me - nor most of the breeders I know - "overpriced" - DNA testing is $100+ for each test, eye test $80+, vet check pre mating $150+, canine herpies test $100+, X-rays $150+, pregnancy check up $100+ each time, what am I missing people...oh sorry the education - check the MDBA course prices and then go google the books necessary to this properly. My breed generally sell for around $1000 - most cross breed mutts sell for almost that but what do you get with them. Mine will go with microchip, breeder ID tattoo, sterilized (tubal ligation or vasectomy), written vet check, Volhard puppy temperament evaluation, Vaccinated, wormed, 6 weeks insurance and all the documentation recommended by both the MDBA and ANKC. What does the BYB down your street do?

[RuralPug]

So the world is full of idiots, there's a surprise.

The problem is, if we don't like puppy mills, and we don't want to wait a year to get some overpriced inbreed from a snooty breeder what are the choices?

Very good point.

And PLEASE don't say a pound puppy. That just makes no sense. How the wild offspring of feral dogs is better than breeding your pet, I don't know.

Sorry, very very few dogs in pounds are from wild parents I would say less than 2%. Most of them are dumped or not sought after they've escaped because they are not valued by their owners - the vast majority were from backyard breedings, puppy farms or pet shops.

The "head in the sand" attitude of many breeders continues to amaze me. Outside of Show circle, the term "Registered Breeder" is just an alarm bell to many people. For your average dumb-schmuck member of the public they assumed that buying an expensive "pedigreed" from a breeder represented a quality product, and so unfortunately the horror stories proliferate. Some breeds in WA have been decimated by the poor practices of registered breeders, to the point that cross-breeding is the only way to get a pup that will live more than a few years. It's no wonder that Mr & Mrs Joe Public are turning to SpaniCavmagnadoodles.

I agree that some poor practices by bad-apple registered breeders have by implication, tarnished the whole barrel. We need to start enforcing the existing Code of Ethics etc, for a start.

I think that properly regulated, home breeding is a great thing. If I had a pedigreed bitch, I would like to see her have puppies, provided that both she and the sire were certified as free of genetic defects.

I would be happy for you to do so, if you proved a basic knowledge of dog husbandry, genetics, and how to place your puppies in appropriate homes. The regulations we already have are NOT being enforced (except some of the stupid ones, for the wrong reasons.... ;) ).

The problem is that we have absolutely zero regulation of dog breeding, and as the OP laments any drongo can breed any pair of mongrels. Even the concept of "Registered Breeders" doesn't actually impose any significant restrictions on poor breeding practices. I'd like to see laws such that only government registered breeders could own unneutered dogs, that the dogs must be certified free of genetic flaws, and that premises must comply with certain health standards.

The big pf's already comply with the required health standards - how would you change the standards already in place? How would you choose the certification testing? Most states already have laws that make it more expensive to own entire dogs than neutered ones - but again, enforcement is lacking. How would you ensure enforcement? I agree with the thrust of your thinking here, but the devil is in the details.

I also think that Pedigree Breeders should get on the front foot, clean-up their own house by kicking out unethical breeders, and do more to promote ROBUST Pedigree animals as Pets.

I agree with that 100%.

Comments in blue added by me.

Edited to add: In my state, if you sell used cars (I think more than 5 a year) then you have to have a LMCT licence. I would like to see a law that you cannot sell a "baby" pet (e.g. puppy, kitten etc.) without a licence. If you sell less than 10 in a year, then you can have a limited licence - the more you sell, the more you have to prove you are not shonky, so to speak.

The selling is where the money is, not the breeding. So regulate the selling more than the breeding. Accidental backyard litters can be given away, but not sold - unless all puppies AND both parents are neutered before sale. Again, the devil is in the details.

Edited September 22, 2010 by RuralPug

[YOLO]

So the world is full of idiots, there’s a surprise.

The problem is, if we don’t like puppy mills, and we don’t want to wait a year to get some overpriced inbreed from a snooty breeder what are the choices?

And PLEASE don’t say a pound puppy. That just makes no sense. How the wild offspring of feral dogs is better than breeding your pet, I don’t know.

The “head in the sand” attitude of many breeders continues to amaze me. Outside of Show circle, the term “Registered Breeder” is just an alarm bell to many people. For your average dumb-schmuck member of the public they assumed that buying an expensive “pedigreed” from a breeder represented a quality product, and so unfortunately the horror stories proliferate. Some breeds in WA have been decimated by the poor practices of registered breeders, to the point that cross-breeding is the only way to get a pup that will live more than a few years. It’s no wonder that Mr & Mrs Joe Public are turning to SpaniCavmagnadoodles.

I think that properly regulated, home breeding is a great thing. If I had a pedigreed bitch, I would like to see her have puppies, provided that both she and the sire were certified as free of genetic defects.

The problem is that we have absolutely zero regulation of dog breeding, and as the OP laments any drongo can breed any pair of mongrels. Even the concept of “Registered Breeders” doesn’t actually impose any significant restrictions on poor breeding practices. I’d like to see laws such that only government registered breeders could own unneutered dogs, that the dogs must be certified free of genetic flaws, and that premises must comply with certain health standards.

I also think that Pedigree Breeders should get on the front foot, clean-up their own house by kicking out unethical breeders, and do more to promote ROBUST Pedigree animals as Pets.

Excuse me but "snooty" not me - nor most of the breeders I know - "overpriced" - DNA testing is $100+ for each test, eye test $80+, vet check pre mating $150+, canine herpies test $100+, X-rays $150+, pregnancy check up $100+ each time, what am I missing people...oh sorry the education - check the MDBA course prices and then go google the books necessary to this properly. My breed generally sell for around $1000 - most cross breed mutts sell for almost that but what do you get with them. Mine will go with microchip, breeder ID tattoo, sterilized (tubal ligation or vasectomy), written vet check, Volhard puppy temperament evaluation, Vaccinated, wormed, 6 weeks insurance and all the documentation recommended by both the MDBA and ANKC. What does the BYB down your street do?

Since I wasn’t in any way replying to your post, I’m not sure why you take my comments as directed at you?

Anyway, what do you propose? Keep the heads in the sand and pretend the problem doesn’t exist?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m on the side of the Ethical Breeder. Problem is that there is a huge gap between what Ethical Breeders can supply and what the market demands. That demand is currently being met by puppy mills, home breeders, and UNethical breeders. What I’m suggesting is that properly regulated and supervised, home breeding is a viable alternative.

[aussielover]

basically it is only registered breeders, mostly show people and working/performance people who are actually interested in doing any health/temperament/performance testing.

There aren't many home breeders would want to take the time and spend the money to get all these things done.

And where are they going to get the stud dog from? If you're wanting a health tested dog, you're best mate or the guy down the road isn't likely to want to put their dog through all the necessary health tests, even if you did offfer to pay.

[Christina]

Because the world has gone mad & people are becoming idiots.

I give up after seeing this ad :rolleyes:

Edited so source is not disclosed

Yeah Stuff the School Holidays!!!!!.Buy a dog to entertain the kids.We have some for Sale.German Shepherd x $150.Pure Bred Border Collie Pups.$400.We Also have Two Pure Bred Border Collie Males for STUD DUTY if you wish to breed your Own Litter.

Don't normal people go out & buy a video or game or something to entertain them.

[poodlefan]

Maltese Luna:

Most vets will say 'all white dogs' have staining and that it's normal.

It may be "normal". So are dental issues and obesity in dogs these days.

It's not healthy and its not inevitable with decent husbandry.

A lot of folk love their dogs and want ones just like them. The irony of that is if they buy from a registered breeder, they can go back and get one from the same sire and sometimes even the same bitch.

What's the old saying "if you like the dog, look to its father for another".

[keetamouse]

There was a vet on the radio here on Sunday saying how she supported her clients breeding their dogs, because they produced so much nicer puppies than 'proper' breeders.

There was some valid stuff in there about the benefits of raising puppies in a home environment, but a distinct bias towards unregistered puppies and byb breeders. And that's a vet on public radio, no wonder other people think it's fine.

The vet was my vet for a couple of years she also fostered a couple of dogs for us, and with another group here in Canberra, I was gobsmacked when I heard her some months back say on air " the puppies you see in the pet shops do not come from puppy farms" where does she think they come from.

Her one hour show is sponsored by Pets Paradise.

I called 2CC talk back yesterday after they had a segment on Puppy mills and mentioned the beauty of getting a dog through rescue, I also have at least 10 calls a year from families who want to surreneder their daughters dog after they have saved and bought from the pet shop for $1000 and they now can't keep it and need to rehome it.

I also said that it is only the cute cuddly dogs they sell you never see a staffy or Mastiff pup in any of their shops.

Also mentioned the time some years back when I was picking a dog up from the airport and one of the Bates family was collecting at least 10-15 puppies all in cages on the luggage trolley, they were all destined for his shops here in Canberra.

Maree

CPR

Edited September 22, 2010 by keetamouse

[Souff]

Over the past week I have spoken with a number of puppy owners who intend to breed their dogs when they are old enough and not bother to desex their dogs.

It is really starting to do my head in!!!

I've given them as much info as possible about things that could go wrong, health testing required, risk of pyo in an undesexed female, problems with dealing with dogs in heat, findning homes for all the puppies (at the expense of a shelter or pound puppy) ETC

They sort of glaze over and then say stuff like "but it would be so nice for her to have a litter, she is such a nice dog..."

arghhhhh

One person even said they were happy to "knock on the head" puppies that couldn't find homes

One person with a malti-cavoodle (yes, you heard right), wanted to breed with a purebred malti-cavoodle because they make such great pets.

Health tests? "she is perfectly healthy, she has been vet checked" Yet I can see stains around her eyes...

Temperament? "don't let your big dog over near her, she doesn't like big dogs"

Somebody please shoot me before I explode and try to hit one of them on the head.

No shooting.

Souff just wishes them all many many large vet bills for emergency C-sections and spaying for bitches who haemmorhage during/after the C-section.

And that their pups fail to thrive. Tends to take the fun out of breeding puppies and consumes credit cards whole.

Just for your education that staining around the eyes is from the tear ducts and happens naturally on most dogs. You get to see it on the white dogs but on the darker dogs you simply don't notice it. If there is no infection it is not a health hazard - it is usually cosmetic only and the area can be easily cleaned with the right products.

Souff

[aussielover]

No shooting.

Souff just wishes them all many many large vet bills for emergency C-sections and spaying for bitches who haemmorhage during/after the C-section.

And that their pups fail to thrive. Tends to take the fun out of breeding puppies and consumes credit cards whole.

Just for your education that staining around the eyes is from the tear ducts and happens naturally on most dogs. You get to see it on the white dogs but on the darker dogs you simply don't notice it. If there is no infection it is not a health hazard - it is usually cosmetic only and the area can be easily cleaned with the right products.

Souff

Really, I thought it was more SWF thing?

My white poodle x never had it though.

Also I don't see it on many yellow labs or goldies etc but perhaps that is because it is easier to wipe away?

[Souff]

No shooting.

Souff just wishes them all many many large vet bills for emergency C-sections and spaying for bitches who haemmorhage during/after the C-section.

And that their pups fail to thrive. Tends to take the fun out of breeding puppies and consumes credit cards whole.

Just for your education that staining around the eyes is from the tear ducts and happens naturally on most dogs. You get to see it on the white dogs but on the darker dogs you simply don't notice it. If there is no infection it is not a health hazard - it is usually cosmetic only and the area can be easily cleaned with the right products.

Souff

Really, I thought it was more SWF thing?

My white poodle x never had it though.

Also I don't see it on many yellow labs or goldies etc but perhaps that is because it is easier to wipe away?

Some white cats have tear staining too.

Many of the white dogs get it, and yet others are not affected.

I dont know what the cause it but unless there is infection vets will tell you that it is not a health issue.

Souff

[Esky the husky]

It makes me sick hearing that these 'vets' are giving breeders a bad name on the radio.

We need a pro registered breeder radio show on the air.

"Hey ABC check out my broadcasting diploma, can I have a show "

[poodlefan]

Just for your education that staining around the eyes is from the tear ducts and happens naturally on most dogs. You get to see it on the white dogs but on the darker dogs you simply don't notice it. If there is no infection it is not a health hazard - it is usually cosmetic only and the area can be easily cleaned with the right products.

Souff

The condition clears with treatment by antibiotics. What you're seeing is bacterial growth in excessive moisture. A holistic vet I now says is often an indicator of an issue in the dog's head or neck with gum and tooth issues being a primary cause.

[bianca.a]

The number of people I have met at the dog park who say they are going to breed their x breed or even pb sickens me. I have had people ask if I am going to breed my 10 month old GSD pup????? Um hello....She is a pure bred but not exactly a shining example of one who would better the breed. She has been spayed anyway.

[Bully]

This might put them off

So You Want to Breed Your Bitch - A Consideration for the Would Be Casual Breeder

[Dju]

Oh god, I work with one of these people She has a Maltese and says she's going to use him as a stud because of the "cute white puppies" he will make. That, and she says she's getting one of them for free and her friend is selling the rest for $500. As if we don't have enough SWFs in the pound! I told her this and she's like "people always want Maltese, they're a very popular breed".

I told her about all the complications that can arise from a dog giving birth and she was like "that's my friend's problem, not mine!" ;)

Edited September 23, 2010 by Dju