TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I am sitting here in tears at the moment with no idea what to do..... Jett is due to have her puppies this week and this is my first litter. She had her x-ray today and there were 12 skulls but the vet seems to think there were more behind the ribcage as she carries quite high. He has suggested a c-section and told me it would be safer for her and her puppies so I booked it in. I have since spoken to a good friend and she has told me of quite a few things that the vet didn't mention.... like her rejecting her puppies as she is a maiden bitch, her milk drying up etc, the stress of her waking from the anestetic and the pain from the surgery. Can I please have the opinions of breeders who have a breed of dog that generally whelp larger litters, who have been in a similar situation. I cant get in contact with my breeder/mentor and another breeder friend as she is out. I just want Jett and her puppies to be okay and I want to do what is right for her, I know she is going to be a great mum and I am sure that she is more than capable of delivering that many babies now that I've spoken to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 If she's healthy and there's no reason to expect problems, then I don't see the need to go to an elective c-section We've had double figure litters on more than one occasion, all whelped normally. Does she come from lines that have problems whelping naturally? That would be the only reason I would be looking at an elective c-section at this stage of the pregnancy, assuming everything else was proceeding normally. If it were me, I would be proceeding as normal and letting the bitch do her thing, but being prepared to take the bitch in for veterinary assistance if it looks like she needs it, the same as I would normally do. Do you have someone experienced to be with you and help you through your first whelping, Trina? I can only imagine how nervous you are feeling, particularly now that you've been told how big the litter is - but if you can have an experienced breeder with you during the whelping, they can help to teach you what is normal and should be able to use their experience to pick up on any potential problems at an early stage Make sure your vet is happy to be contacted if needed during whelping, and even ask them if you can let them know when she has started so that they can be prepared in case they're needed. And, most importantly, BREATHE :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 If she's healthy and there's no reason to expect problems, then I don't see the need to go to an elective c-section ;) If it were me, I would be proceeding as normal and letting the bitch do her thing, but being prepared to take the bitch in for veterinary assistance if it looks like she needs it, the same as I would normally do. Make sure your vet is happy to be contacted if needed during whelping, and even ask them if you can let them know when she has started so that they can be prepared in case they're needed. And, most importantly, BREATHE Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I am sitting here in tears at the moment with no idea what to do..... Jett is due to have her puppies this week and this is my first litter. She had her x-ray today and there were 12 skulls but the vet seems to think there were more behind the ribcage as she carries quite high. He has suggested a c-section and told me it would be safer for her and her puppies so I booked it in. I have since spoken to a good friend and she has told me of quite a few things that the vet didn't mention.... like her rejecting her puppies as she is a maiden bitch, her milk drying up etc, the stress of her waking from the anestetic and the pain from the surgery. Can I please have the opinions of breeders who have a breed of dog that generally whelp larger litters, who have been in a similar situation. I cant get in contact with my breeder/mentor and another breeder friend as she is out. I just want Jett and her puppies to be okay and I want to do what is right for her, I know she is going to be a great mum and I am sure that she is more than capable of delivering that many babies now that I've spoken to others. I agree with Allerzeit & SwaY however if you decide to go ahead with the elective from my own experience I've never had a maiden bitch reject her babies, the only time I've had milk supply issues was after an emergency spay following c-section. If you decide to let things happen at home just be sure that your vet is on stand-by and keep in mind it's a big litter and she could tire as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Sorry I can't help re a VERY LARGE litter my biggest is 8 but I agree with Allerzeit, let her go natural hopefully you can have an experienced breeder help out and only go for a c-section if you need to. Sending you good vibes for an easy whelping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I will always lean towards the side of a natural whelping wherever possible. I had considered an elective c-section on Koda when she was due last November due to litter size, family history and the non-availability of emergency veterinary treatment within easy and short access but decided to err on the side of nature. As it happened, we ended up doing an after hours c-section anyway but at a relatively civilised hour on a Sunday and only after her temperature dropped but she wasn't getting on with the job as I felt she should have been. The puppies were born on Day 59 and showed signs of placental separation so my gut instinct was bang on. The most important thing is to be well informed and well aware of what is "normal" for your girl. Take temperatures religiously and record every change. Chances are she'll be just fine, but if not, you at least have all the information the vet will need to make an informed decision for a healthy outcome for bitch and puppies. And FWIW, Koda was a maiden, had 9 puppies and we didn't lose a single one. She recovered well from the anaesthetic (even if her slapping boobies did frighten the bejesus out of her every time she tried to trot across the yard during her time outs!), had heaps of milk and was an excellent mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 She recovered well from the anaesthetic (even if her slapping boobies did frighten the bejesus out of her every time she tried to trot across the yard during her time outs!), had heaps of milk and was an excellent mum. ;) There's nothing quite like the sound of slapping boobies from 20 paces! As Aziah mentioned, Jett tiring is something to keep in mind going into the whelping - but at least you know up front that it's a big litter so you can be prepared that she might get tired and need assistance in the later stages to finish off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 Tears have stopped, have spoken with Marg now and we are going natural I am feeling so much better about it now. Have also spoken with 2 other breeders on the phone, one who had to deal with my blubbering... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Tears have stopped, have spoken with Marg now and we are going natural I am feeling so much better about it now. Have also spoken with 2 other breeders on the phone, one who had to deal with my blubbering... ;) Agree witheveryone above. There is no reason to suspect she needs a CSec yet. Even if she gets out half the litter and then needs a C, she will have spent some time with those pups, and will be better for that. As the others have said keep in contact with your vet and let them know what you are doing. I would call them when she has her first pup, so they know. Everything will be fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozwildflower Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I agree with everybody else, though my largest litter has been 8. Now, don't forget to let us know when all the pups are safely delivered and you've had a rest I'm sure everything will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Glad to hear you will let nature take its course. I had a litter of 11 Manchesters once, where the Xray simply didn't show them all. The vet said.."more than 8" and that was the best he could give me!! Try to relax and enjoy the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatchat Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Good luck TrinaJ, hope everything goes really well!! Will have fingers and paws crossed here for you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 Thank you everyone and I will definately let you know how we go. We have started taking her temp tonight and will do so twice daily (poor Jett) so that we get a good record of what her regular temp is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolzseinrotts Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) Tears have stopped, have spoken with Marg now and we are going natural I am feeling so much better about it now. Have also spoken with 2 other breeders on the phone, one who had to deal with my blubbering... Good news, so glad to you have decided to go natural! Edited to add - Thank you for the laugh Ellz, ........That sound is like no other............ Edited September 21, 2010 by Stolzseinrotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Within my breed 12 is considered average & not one of them rushes out for c section & the greater percentage all whelp natural with no issues or tiring . Just make sure your vet works after hours as many don't & you have to go else where & be sure they now what there doing if you do need to head done that path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 My understanding: the larger the litter, the smaller the pups on average, and hence the lower the chance of getting stuck and the easier to get the breach pups and other trouble makers out. So I'd agree with the others about going natural and having a backup plan. Might add, with smaller and more pups you have a greater risk of loosing a pup or two. A good vet can reduce this risk by doing a Ceasar, though an emergency Ceasar may be as good or better than an elective for this purpose. The only Rotti breeder I talk to regularly has horrid problems with bitches rejecting (as in wanting to kill) pups. Hand rearing 12 is a big job. I'm not saying it's a breed trait or something to worry about, but you might do well to find out about the grand dam's maternal instancts, and prepare yourself if they aren't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 She had her x-ray today and there were 12 skulls but the vet seems to think there were more behind the ribcage as she carries quite high. I have 2 xrays done and they have never been right. I would not do it again. One on a horse machine, and one on the latest digital ones in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 My understanding: the larger the litter, the smaller the pups on average, and hence the lower the chance of getting stuck and the easier to get the breach pups and other trouble makers out. So I'd agree with the others about going natural and having a backup plan. Might add, with smaller and more pups you have a greater risk of loosing a pup or two. A good vet can reduce this risk by doing a Ceasar, though an emergency Ceasar may be as good or better than an elective for this purpose.The only Rotti breeder I talk to regularly has horrid problems with bitches rejecting (as in wanting to kill) pups. Hand rearing 12 is a big job. I'm not saying it's a breed trait or something to worry about, but you might do well to find out about the grand dam's maternal instancts, and prepare yourself if they aren't good. All the bitches in Jett's lines (Dams side) have been great mums, her breeder owned/s them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 She had her x-ray today and there were 12 skulls but the vet seems to think there were more behind the ribcage as she carries quite high. I have 2 xrays done and they have never been right. I would not do it again. One on a horse machine, and one on the latest digital ones in the country. How wrong did they get it Sway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) You've been given some great advice here TrinaJ. As stated if the Vet doesn't insist and can give you no real reason for doing a C-section then don't. Just be prepared for any outcome (as you would have done in any case). A lot has been said about the bitch getting tired and that is why you are there for her. My little Cav only had the energy to push out number 4, she didn't attempt to do the cord, lick or any thing at all, unlike the previous 3, which we had done together, she was pooped at that stage and just lay there. I did all that for her and she was back in the game for number 5 and 6. You may find this happens at intervals along the way with a large number of pups. Just because she gets a bit tired doesn't necessarily mean she's out of the game. So don't let it stress you if it happens relatively early. Good Luck. Edited September 22, 2010 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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