Puppy Frustration :(

[aussielover]

Hey Staffygirl,

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time with your pup

It can be pretty overwhelming at first.

I don't think any pup comes "toilet trained", in my experience even adult dogs may have an accident or two while they are settling in to a new home.

My puppy also came to me with a preference for toileting on concrete/tiles, rather than grass. This was overcome in a week or two by keeping her on the leash while toileting and taking her to the same spot everytime. They need to go out at least every hour in the first few weeks.

I really think crating a new pup for 3-4 hrs during the day is just too long, personally I would start with having them settled in there for 10 mins or so and gradually work up to long periods. Dogs will sometimes poo when they are stressed, so perhaps its just too much, too soon.

Can you safely leave her outside or in a small room with access to outside, whilst you are away?

Regarding overnight- Honestly, part of having a puppy is getting up in the night to let them out. It may not be the most enjoyable part though ;)

For instance last night I had to get up 3 times 1am, 3am and then 5.30 am to let my puppy out as she had the runs (from eating god knows what crap). Honestly, I was just happy she wasn't going in my room (where she sleeps) and is finally at the stage of being asked to be let out.

If I were you, I would be setting my alarm and getting up every 3-4 hrs to let pup out to toilet as it seems she can't hold on. In my opinion it is better to wake up a few times at night to let pup out for 5 mins, than to wake up to a smelly house and messy dog bed!

I think the breeder has mislead you, but there is really no point in dwelling on that, all you can do is notify them of your probs and they will either help or not. In this case it looks like not

I would recommend getting a private trainer come out and give you a few tips, or at least take the pup to obedience or puppy school.

Good luck, it really does get better but you need to put in the time and effort- and it does make it worth it!

There is nothing better than watching your puppy coming bounding up to you for hugs and kisses in the morning or snuggling up to you at night, or watching them master a new command or trick

[poodlefan]

such a big problem for everyone? I'm there when she's being fed. If she sees him as a pack leader she won't snap at him when he goes near her food. Even if he's just walking past. And as I control the food I can take it away and give it back, if everyone did this with pups there wouldn't be food aggression because the dog would know they're going to get it back, but when their owner is ready to give it back.

You have no idea what you're talking about I'm afraid. Food aggression is hard wired into some dogs and learned by others.

Your dog will NEVER regard your child as pack leader. He is a pack member. There's only ever one leader and it should be you.

I cannot overemphasise how potentially dangerous a lesson you a teaching your son.

This is literally making my blood run cold. For pity's sake, stop watching Cesar Millan and start listening to folk who want to keep your child safe.

I've said my piece. If I read about some poor kid getting 'mauled' in Tasmania, I'll do the stats:

Powerful dog - tick

Male child - tick

Child interfered with food - tick

Parent distracted or absent - tick

And we'll all nod and go 'yep, classic completely preventable bite scenario'. And because you have a bull breed, you'll just have made the breed one step closer to complete extinction.

For pity's sake there was one of these in Darwin only last week. Go look at that poor little girl with a head full of stitches. That's what happens when it goes wrong. ;)

I'm out of here. I can't bear this.

Edited September 21, 2010 by poodlefan

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I am of the camp that you do teach your pup to be able to put your hand in there bowl and take food put it back etc. so if i ever catch my dog with something they are eating and i dont want them too i can take it.

i would not do this with an older dog. but i do with my pup and will continue too.

i never put my hand in my dogs food nor do i take it away from her but i can assure you that if she has anything in her mouth that i want she drops it immediately.

she will also refuse food until i give her an ok.

imo if a dog is hungry it makes them anxious if the food is removed and i bekieve it is cruel.

my dog does not get fed until she has looked at me and i give a release word. in this way she understands i control the food and she controls when she gets it, ie the quicker she is calm the sooner she eats.

I don't take her food away until she's almost finished her meal. I don't take it the second she gets it she's almost eaten all of it by the time I take it, then give it back.

why? i really dont understand this. the dog is hungry and needs food and its like teasing her. i really just dont understand.

i have never done this to my dogs and they know i am the pack leader and i have has small dogs (Boston Terriers) and large powerful breeds (GSD's) and they all behaved as well as each other.

[aussielover]

That is what I'm trying to prevent! I don't want my pup to be food aggressive at all to anyone! Which is why I take her food and give it back and put my hand in her bowl so that she doesn't snap at me when she's older.

Taking her food away and giving it back and putting your hands in her food WILL NOT prevent food aggression, also known as resource guarding. In fact, by making mealtimes stressful for pup, you may actually be increasing the likelihood of her becoming aggressive around food.

If you are going to interefere with her meals (and personally i see no need), it is best to ADD extra, better food into the bowl, so she associates hands with more/better food.

Also giving her a chew like a schmacko or pig ear, and then exchanging the food for an equal or better item can help with resource guarding.

[spottychick]

Why is this such a big problem for everyone? I'm there when she's being fed. If she sees him as a pack leader she won't snap at him when he goes near her food. Even if he's just walking past. And as I control the food I can take it away and give it back, if everyone did this with pups there wouldn't be food aggression because the dog would know they're going to get it back, but when their owner is ready to give it back.

I have had many dogs in my life time and not one of them has been food agrressive. I've trained them that I am fair and reasonable and built up their TRUST so they have NEVER had the need to get aggro about food. I have also trained a snappy passive-aggressive 8 year old rescue dog the same way and he has no issues around his food.

And the reason is because they knew their food is for them and no-one is going to remove it once they've been given it. They have no need to guard their food.

I don't "dominate" my dogs. I lead and teach them. There is a big difference.

Sorry but I think it's rude of you to assume that everyone else here is raising dogs that will be food aggressive because they don't arbitrarily take away their dogs food bowls and allow all the other children and adults to do the same.

Didn't you post here seeking advice?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

such a big problem for everyone? I'm there when she's being fed. If she sees him as a pack leader she won't snap at him when he goes near her food. Even if he's just walking past. And as I control the food I can take it away and give it back, if everyone did this with pups there wouldn't be food aggression because the dog would know they're going to get it back, but when their owner is ready to give it back.

You have no idea what you're talking about I'm afraid. Food aggression is hard wired into some dogs and learned by others.

Your dog will NEVER regard your child as pack leader. He is a pack member. There's only ever one leader and it should be you.

I cannot overemphasise how potentially dangerous a lesson you a teaching your son.

This is literally making my blood run cold. For pity's sake, stop watching Cesar Millan and start listening to folk who want to keep your child safe.

I've said my piece. If I read about some poor kid getting 'mauled' in Tasmania, I'll do the stats:

Powerful dog - tick

Male child - tick

Child interfered with food - tick

Parent distracted or absent - tick

And we'll all nod and go 'yep, classic completely preventable bite scenario'. And because you have a bull breed, you'll just have made the breed one step closer to complete extinction.

For pity's sake there was one of these in Darwin only last week. Go look at that poor little girl with a head full of stitches. That's what happens when it goes wrong. ;)

I'm out of here. I can't bear this.

i agree and i am following you out the door

[poodlefan]

You know the biggest problem with this practice?

It fails to take into account that even the lowest pack members will defend their food . And bitches more than most. No alpha male in their right mind tackles an adult bitch who is eating and expects submission.

Let alone a 3 or 4 year old boy child. ;)

Edited September 21, 2010 by poodlefan

[koalathebear]

Where did you read that? Its a very simplistic take on issues of resources and dominance.

I can't remember exactly. We read so much dog training stuff before we got our dog that we were a bit overwhelmed by it all. We had agreed on no alpha-rolling or rough-treatment but the food thing seemed like a good idea so that we could take food away from him if necessary. We don't have kids - there are just two immature adults in our household. ;) So I wouldn't recommend it to other people but yes ... we've always played with Elbie's food and got him to leave it midway - he never seems particularly fussed, just kind of waits and sometimes delivers up a few behaviours in the hope that we are after a trick or something. Mealtimes have always been fun for him, not stressful even if it sometimes takes up to 30 minutes for him to get his full meal because it's being doled out for tricks etc. Anyway, thanks for letting me know - it is always good to know these things even if one learns them a bit late

[Monah]

I'm in the non play with food camp.

My dogs, all the ones I've had over the years, have never had their food 'played with'.

I have been able to remove food from them if I have to for some reason without any incidents through normal training, ie. leave it, come, sit , etc.

It is a very dangerous practice for the dog's temperament as well as especially a child.

The dog will never see a young child as a 'pack leader', no matter what you do or think.

If you dont agree (I'm sure you do not), what if a visiting child saw yours touch/play/take food or something else of value from the dog, and copied? All eventualities need to be covered.

It's your dog, your child your life I suppose.

At the top of this thread there is info on puppy training etc. which may be helpful for you.

I'm very ingenuous I guess.

I'm finding all these topics about this pup very perplexing.

aussielover re toillet training ;)

and I'm completely with PF too, this is making my stomach turn.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Monah

[WreckitWhippet]

I understand your objections to my teachings and that's your opinion which you are entitled to. This is how I was taught and brought up with my dogs when I was a child. If my dog doesn't see my son as a pack leader then he will dominate my son and hurt him. I'm trying to teach the puppy to move away from the food when myself or my son approaches.

Also I never let my son out of my sight when the pup is near him or can be near him. I practised this with my last staffy and he was brilliant with food, if I came near him he would step back from his bowl, sit and make eye contact with me and would not eat again until I let him.

My dog needs to have RESPECT for my son and she will. No matter what his age, he is her pack leader.

Oh dear.

Why is this such a big problem for everyone? I'm there when she's being fed. If she sees him as a pack leader she won't snap at him when he goes near her food. Even if he's just walking past. And as I control the food I can take it away and give it back, if everyone did this with pups there wouldn't be food aggression because the dog would know they're going to get it back, but when their owner is ready to give it back.

Your pup is not going to see him as a pack leader, but as a threat to her food.

I'm sorry, but your pup is currently confused and quite frankly you need to ease up on it a bit, start the basics all over again and instill come confidence in her.

As it stands at the moment, you are well on the way to creating a disaster.

[Aziah]

I haven't read the entire thread but I've certainly read enough to feel very sad for your new BABY puppy...your expectations are too high, your teaching methods a real concern and your attitude is a again a concern.

It's not the fault of the puppy that she has/had worms, don't take your frustrations out on her.

It might be time for you to think about returning her, I really don't see that you're in the right 'place' for a puppy at this particular time.

[persephone]

I have never taken away a bowl from our dogs ... BUT they will give me what they are eating/holding when I ask ... and it is SO useful ;) I have taught this using the 'swap' game ... "You GIVE me your toy on command, you get something better , AND the toy back"...escalating to "You give me the bone , and you get something better , AND the bone back" to "You GIVE/DROP whatever is in your mouth NOW! you will get a treat ....and may get your prize back, if it is not yucky "

A very handy thing.. and not one hand in a food bowl ever.

Please contact a trainer who will come to your home and help you sort out some rules which suit you and your baby puppy... it will ease your frustration, and help set your pup up .

[lappiemum]

Hi again.

I've had my puppy for a week and a half now. I'm regretting spending as much money as I did on this dog. I could have bought a car.

She howls and cries whenever I open her food bag and it is extremely hard to try and calm her down because I get so frustrated with her jumping at me because she can smell the food. It was explained to the breeder of this pup that I have a young son and would like a pup with a naturally calm and placid temperament. ;)

She was also meant to be wormed. She was full of worms when I got her! I took her to the vet 3 days after her arrival because she had diarrheoa, paid for medication to thicken her stool but when I get home and let her out of the car, a heap of worms come out. I had wormed her that morning before taking her to the vet because I wasn't sure if that was the cause. When I contacted the breeder about the worms, I was told that she had been wormed TWICE! FFS TWICE!!!! WTF!!! I'm pretty sure pups are meant to be wormed every 2 weeks until 8 weeks old, then every month until 6 months old, then every 3 months for the rest of their life? My pup could have died because this breeder didn't worm her properly or often enough. I got no apology from her about the fact that those worms could have killed my dog. And if it had? I hardly think I'd have been compensated in any way. No wonder she was so placid the first couple of days.

This pup was also meant to be toilet trained. She does her business on my porch! And all over the concrete walkways. I do take her to where I want her to go but she BOLTS over to where SHE wants to go I left her at home in her crate for not even 4 hours yesterday, when I got home all I could smell was poo. She had done her business in her crate and had run all through it!!! She had it all over her! My house reeked and my dog and her bed was covered in crap! She had done her business before I left the house, poos and wees so I can't see why she couldn't hold on! She has done this three nights this week and I've had enough of it.

Now the pup is outside because I'm sick of her pooing inside and the reek. She still sleeps inside. I wanted this dog mainly for my son. Which is why I spent a lot of money and went to a breeder. I was promised a wormed, toilet trained dog and for the money I paid it's what I expect. I just don't know what to do, she makes me so angry because she poos where she sleeps! It's meant to be instinct not to poo where they sleep and considering she's in a crate, it's even worse. I'm losing my temper with her, she doesn't even look me in the eye when I'm trying to get her to do something. Am I just expecting too much? I know I'm getting frustrated with her and I'm trying to be calm with her, but everytine I think things are going great she'll start chewing on my dining suite or something similar. Should I just leave her outside until she's fully trained and can respond to commands? Also is it normal for a dog from a breeder to be full of worms? And why advertise she is toilet trained when she obviously is not?

Take your dog back to your breeder, or find someone who will give it a loving home.

Then buy yourself a stuffed toy.

It doesn't chew, crap or bark. That is what you are obviously after.

My frustration doesn't mean I don't want her. Coming to that conclusion is a bit nasty imho and if you can't say anything constructive to me then say NOTHING. Go be nasty somewhere else thanks

A couple of things - an 8 week puppy will not be 100% housetrained when you collect it. A breeder advertising that is not being truthful. A dog will not look you in the eye, esp when you are being angry and intimidating (in its view) - avoiding eye contact is one way in the puppy world to avoid confrontations and to show it is submissive. I assume you have bought a staffy pup, if you are after something placid and calm you should probably not have gotten a pup and maybe gone with an older dog. What breed research did you do? Did you research your breeders? (btw - Is your breeder a registered breeder with the canine association?)

Sorry, but your post has actually pushed my buttons, becuase it has been with unrealistic expectations that you have bought a puppy, and unless you start educating yourself and stop blaming the puppy for its 'faults' then its going to end badly for all concerned - probably with a trip to the pound.

And if you want to know what trouble and expense that causes, go check out the rescue thread.

[Aziah]

I have never taken away a bowl from our dogs ... BUT they will give me what they are eating/holding when I ask ... and it is SO useful ;) I have taught this using the 'swap' game ... "You GIVE me your toy on command, you get something better , AND the toy back"...escalating to "You give me the bone , and you get something better , AND the bone back" to "You GIVE/DROP whatever is in your mouth NOW! you will get a treat ....and may get your prize back, if it is not yucky "

A very handy thing.. and not one hand in a food bowl ever.

Please contact a trainer who will come to your home and help you sort out some rules which suit you and your baby puppy... it will ease your frustration, and help set your pup up .

Alternatively, return the puppy so that it can be rehomed with someone who has sensible/realistic expectations of a BABY puppy and go out and purchase one of those battery operated robot dogs from the toy store. They don't need feeding, don't need toileting and when you've had enough you can simply flick the 'off' switch!

Edited September 21, 2010 by Aziah

[3Woofs]

I really think you should send this pup back to the breeder.

I'm sure if you explain that she is not what you expected and is too much for you with a young child than you will get a refund.

[lappiemum]

I haven't read the entire thread but I've certainly read enough to feel very sad for your new BABY puppy...your expectations are too high, your teaching methods a real concern and your attitude is a again a concern.

It's not the fault of the puppy that she has/had worms, don't take your frustrations out on her.

It might be time for you to think about returning her, I really don't see that you're in the right 'place' for a puppy at this particular time.

Exactly.

[aussielover]

I REALLY think dogs should be left alone while eating.

I mean, how would you like it if someone kept taking your meal away or sticking their hands into your plate, or stroking/touching you while you ate?

You may have a different opinion though if they kept adding, say chocolate, or something yummy though. You might then be quite willing to have them reach into your bowl then ;)

Or if you had a carrot and they gave you an ice cream or something? Then you might be pretty willing to give up your food to them anytime, as you know you will always receive soemthing yummier (though i quite like carrots!)

[lappiemum]

I have never taken away a bowl from our dogs ... BUT they will give me what they are eating/holding when I ask ... and it is SO useful ;) I have taught this using the 'swap' game ... "You GIVE me your toy on command, you get something better , AND the toy back"...escalating to "You give me the bone , and you get something better , AND the bone back" to "You GIVE/DROP whatever is in your mouth NOW! you will get a treat ....and may get your prize back, if it is not yucky "

A very handy thing.. and not one hand in a food bowl ever.

Please contact a trainer who will come to your home and help you sort out some rules which suit you and your baby puppy... it will ease your frustration, and help set your pup up .

Alternatively, return the puppy so that it can be rehomed with someone who has sensible/realistic expectations of a BABY puppy and go out and purchase one of those battery operated robot dogs from the toy store. They don't need feeding, don't need toileting and when you've had enough you can simply flick the 'off' switch!

My sugggestion earlier

[Aziah]

I have never taken away a bowl from our dogs ... BUT they will give me what they are eating/holding when I ask ... and it is SO useful I have taught this using the 'swap' game ... "You GIVE me your toy on command, you get something better , AND the toy back"...escalating to "You give me the bone , and you get something better , AND the bone back" to "You GIVE/DROP whatever is in your mouth NOW! you will get a treat ....and may get your prize back, if it is not yucky "

A very handy thing.. and not one hand in a food bowl ever.

Please contact a trainer who will come to your home and help you sort out some rules which suit you and your baby puppy... it will ease your frustration, and help set your pup up .

Alternatively, return the puppy so that it can be rehomed with someone who has sensible/realistic expectations of a BABY puppy and go out and purchase one of those battery operated robot dogs from the toy store. They don't need feeding, don't need toileting and when you've had enough you can simply flick the 'off' switch!

My sugggestion earlier

I told you I hadn't read the entire thread ;)

[WreckitWhippet]

The OP purchased and Amstaff baby.