Puppy Frustration :(

[persephone]

I also practice taking her food from her and putting my hand in her bowl when she's eating, my son does the same and is proud of himself for doing it lol

Please don't do this .... IMO there is no need, and it could end badly one time.

If you really want to play around with a dog and food- just add a few treats to her bowl during a meal ... or do the 'swap' game ... giving her a treat when she brings you a toy ... then giving a treat when she brings you a bone.... bit this is in the future. For now she needs to eat in peace & quiet.

[TsarsMum]

ok i would recommend you have a look at k9pro's website. they have a distance program you can do with pups (im doing it with mine) it has lots of training in that i think could help.

also she is to young to be going on walks, she is not fully vaccinated and does not need walks. she needs to use her mind and do training.

have a look at the puppy course. i do it and i have a 10 month old 3 year old and a 8 year old. as well has a 12 week old pup.

[Staffygirl88]

I also practice taking her food from her and putting my hand in her bowl when she's eating, my son does the same and is proud of himself for doing it lol

Please stop this practice. Feed her in her crate. Children should be taught to leave a dog alone when it is feeding. They don't particularise this behaviour and you'll be teaching your son that he can do this with any dog, any bowl and with your dog with any food.

This is an unsafe lesson to learn. Teach your son to leave your dog alone at feeding time.

The best way to 'drain a puppy's energy' is games and training. She's too young to be walked any distance for some months yet.

Is there a trainer or a dog training club you can get to. You need this dog effectively leash trained before she gets too big.

My son doesn't approach any other dog, he is too timid (thankfully) and I don't encourage him too either. He's old enough to understand that our dog is OUR dog, don't touch or go near other dogs and he's been really good about it. My sister has a Staffy next door and he doesn't go anywhere near her unless I do. And I want my pup to learn that my son is her pack leader also and that if he goes near her food she is to surrender it to him.

There are so many different opinions on walking ;) I love walking and I'd love to take my pup for a walk, even if it's just ten minutes. I am enrolling her in puppy class at my Vet's, that starts at the end of this month. I do agree that she needs to be leash trained ASAP

[koalathebear]

Thanks koalathebear your reply was informative and hopefully it will be helpful. I got this puppy at a very bad time as my dad was diagnosed with cancer 5 days after she was flown down. I've been so stressed out and I'm sure she's picking up on that but I can't help being upset at the moment. I'll just have to try and hide my emotions from her the best I can and hope for the best. I do love the little rascal, just very bad timing.

I definitely understand about the bad timing issue. As some people here know, I’ve run into that recently myself. My father’s got stage 4 terminal cancer i.e. he’s dying. We’re usually not his primary care givers (we provide backup) but because of this and that, for the last few weeks my brother and I have been taking turns “dad-sitting”. Last week, my husband’s grandmother died so he flew back to Canada for 2 weeks and work got busy all of a sudden so I’ve spent a lot of time driving around like a maniac and my poor puppy was left alone for 12 hours on the day my husband left for Canada. There was just nothing else that could be done. Fortunately since then, he’s only been left alone for maybe 8 hours during the day but still .. It’s not easy to ‘hide’ your emotions from your dog - I’ve had two good cries in the last couple of weeks and Elbie sits there looking bewildered and then he tries to lick my face. Point is - most problems are ok if they come in ones but when they come in twos, threes and fours ... that's when they get a bit overwhelming.

Hang in there. There are plenty of people who sympathise and understand that just because you express frustration and distress about your dog doesn’t mean that you don’t want a dog and that you didn’t know what you were getting into. Don't get into online arguments - it's just not worth it and it's the last thing you need right now when you have so many other demands on your emotions. You're here to get help not debate or defend yourself.

As my husband and I have discussed, the reality of owning a puppy can be quite different to one's imaginings. We thought that we were very prepared but seriously, there were times when we thought: "How on earth does such a little thing create so much poop?????" and "You just wee'd - how on earth did you do it again????" ;) I feel quite a bit of regret that during Elbie’s early puppy days we were so busy reacting, following, cleaning up, correcting etc that we probably didn’t ‘enjoy’ his snubby nosed puppy awkwardness as much as we would have liked so I hope you can find a few quiet moments to enjoy as well as react.

Edited September 21, 2010 by koalathebear

[spottychick]

I also practice taking her food from her and putting my hand in her bowl when she's eating, my son does the same and is proud of himself for doing it lol

Please don't do this .... IMO there is no need, and it could end badly one time.

If you really want to play around with a dog and food- just add a few treats to her bowl during a meal ... or do the 'swap' game ... giving her a treat when she brings you a toy ... then giving a treat when she brings you a bone.... bit this is in the future. For now she needs to eat in peace & quiet.

I agree! This is NOT a good thing to do. It only undermines the puppy's trust - imagine how it seems from the puppys point of view. You give her food then you take it away again. I can imagine this will just make her more frantic about getting the food BEFORE anyone can take it from her.

I also recommend the Triangle Of Temptation programme and lots and LOTS of patience. The pup here is put through TOT for every meal.

I don't feed him if he jumps up at me.

Remember not to let him become scared of you when you're teaching him because he won't be able to take in what you're teaching.

ETA Putting food INTO her bowl would be better as perspephone says. That way she sees you or anyone else going near her bowl as a positive event not a negative one. But personally I like to leave them alone when they're eating - and only occassionally add more into their bowl.

Edited September 21, 2010 by spottychick

[poodlefan]

My son doesn't approach any other dog, he is too timid (thankfully) and I don't encourage him too either. He's old enough to understand that our dog is OUR dog, don't touch or go near other dogs and he's been really good about it. My sister has a Staffy next door and he doesn't go anywhere near her unless I do. And I want my pup to learn that my son is her pack leader also and that if he goes near her food she is to surrender it to him.

And if at any stage in this process, something goes wrong, your son will be needing the services of a good microsurgeon IF HE'S LUCKY

Your son is a child. He isn't the pack leader of anything and won't be for years. You are. Your job is to keep your son safe and to supervise at all times and separate otherwise.

I'd tried to be polite but I'll be blunt now. You are endangering your son by encouraging him to handle your dog's food. STOP IT.

If you don't want to take my word for it, go read the dog attack statistics. The most frequent targets are boys aged under 4, they are bitten on the face and head and food is a very frequent feature of attacks. Family dogs are the most frequent aggressors.

Your dog should be able to eat her meals without interference and to have a nice bone in the backyard in peace. For pity's sake, forget all the crap about dominance and pack leadership and keep your child AND your dog safe.

If you want to do something like this, teach puppy to sit and drop and then teach your son the cues. He can reward for obedience with treats but only undersupervision.

Edited September 21, 2010 by poodlefan

[Monah]

Is it school hols in Tassy too?

There's great advice on here from very experienced people, and on your other thread.

Here' hoping it's not still freezing in Tassie for a little pup.

[koalathebear]

Staffygirl88: sorry for hijacking your thread for a second, but I just wanted to ask poodlefan something ...

PF: about the handling of the food - when we got got Elbie we read that you were supposed to play with their food so that they didn't become possessive about it so from day 1 we've always played with his food, made him wait for it. Sometimes we put it at a distance, release him and then make him sit halfway just so he has better control of himself around food. Is that flawed or is it just that children shouldn't be playing with the dog's food? Same with the 'waking sleeping dogs' thing, Elbie's always been quite used to being patted while he's sleeping since he was very little and we will wake him up when it's time for him to be crated so that we can go to bed and we just get a kind of drowsy placidity when he's woken up.

Edited September 21, 2010 by koalathebear

[spottychick]

My son doesn't approach any other dog, he is too timid (thankfully) and I don't encourage him too either. He's old enough to understand that our dog is OUR dog, don't touch or go near other dogs and he's been really good about it. My sister has a Staffy next door and he doesn't go anywhere near her unless I do. And I want my pup to learn that my son is her pack leader also and that if he goes near her food she is to surrender it to him.

There are so many different opinions on walking ;) I love walking and I'd love to take my pup for a walk, even if it's just ten minutes. I am enrolling her in puppy class at my Vet's, that starts at the end of this month. I do agree that she needs to be leash trained ASAP

Your son isn't her pack leader. If anyone is, YOU are. This approach only confuses the dog. Personally I don't approach training in terms of me or any human trying to be a "pack leader" - I'm not a dog and I'm pretty sure my dogs know that LOL But I am their human leader - I try to convey that I'm a gentle, consistent, trustworthy and strong human leader. ANy canine "pack" issues are just between the dogs.

Why should she "surrender her food" to anyone? What she needs to learn is that if he goes near her food he is not going to take it away from her so she can trust him.

[TsarsMum]

I am of the camp that you do teach your pup to be able to put your hand in there bowl and take food put it back etc. so if i ever catch my dog with something they are eating and i dont want them too i can take it.

i would not do this with an older dog. but i do with my pup and will continue too.

[Staffygirl88]

My son doesn't approach any other dog, he is too timid (thankfully) and I don't encourage him too either. He's old enough to understand that our dog is OUR dog, don't touch or go near other dogs and he's been really good about it. My sister has a Staffy next door and he doesn't go anywhere near her unless I do. And I want my pup to learn that my son is her pack leader also and that if he goes near her food she is to surrender it to him.

And if at any stage in this process, something goes wrong, your son will be needing the services of a good microsurgeon IF HE'S LUCKY

Your son is a child. He isn't the pack leader of anything and won't be for years. You are. Your job is to keep your son safe and to supervise at all times and separate otherwise.

I'd tried to be polite but I'll be blunt now. You are endangering your son by encouraging him to handle your dog's food. STOP IT.

If you don't want to take my word for it, go read the dog attack statistics. The most frequent targets are boys aged under 4, they are bitten on the face and head and food is a very frequent feature of attacks.

Your dog should be able to eat her meals without interference and to have a nice bone in the backyard in peace. For pity's sake, forget all the crap about dominance and pack leadership and keep your child AND your dog safe.

If you want to do something like this, teach puppy to sit and drop and then teach your son the cures. He can reward for obedience but only undersupervision.

I understand your objections to my teachings and that's your opinion which you are entitled to. This is how I was taught and brought up with my dogs when I was a child. If my dog doesn't see my son as a pack leader then he will dominate my son and hurt him. I'm trying to teach the puppy to move away from the food when myself or my son approaches.

Also I never let my son out of my sight when the pup is near him or can be near him. I practised this with my last staffy and he was brilliant with food, if I came near him he would step back from his bowl, sit and make eye contact with me and would not eat again until I let him.

My dog needs to have RESPECT for my son and she will. No matter what his age, he is her pack leader.

[spottychick]

Staffygirl88: sorry for hijacking your thread for a second, but I just wanted to ask poodlefan something ...

PF: about the handling of the food - when we got got Elbie we read that you were supposed to play with their food so that they didn't become possessive about it so from day 1 we've always played with his food, made him wait for it. Sometimes we put it at a distance, release him and then make him sit halfway just so he has better control of himself around food. Is that flawed or is it just that children shouldn't be playing with the dog's food? Same with the 'waking sleeping dogs' thing, Elbie's always been quite used to being patted while he's sleeping since he was very little and we will wake him up when it's time for him to be crated so that we can go to bed and we just get a kind of drowsy placidity when he's woken up.

Hi koalathebear - my understanding from trainers I've talked to is "playing with the food" is different to giving a dog his bowl of food and then taking it away again. You have your dog in drive, he is doing stuff for his reward and then, once he's done all that and is eating the food, the reward is withdrawn for no apparent reason!!! That's a problem.

Making the dog wait for the food, stop half way to it, perform tricks for it etc is terrific - but then once you give him his treat or dinner you destroy all the work if you take it back off him.

Personally I wouldn't be letting a small child play with the dogs food regardless.

[spottychick]

I understand your objections to my teachings and that's your opinion which you are entitled to. This is how I was taught and brought up with my dogs when I was a child. If my dog doesn't see my son as a pack leader then he will dominate my son and hurt him. I'm trying to teach the puppy to move away from the food when myself or my son approaches.

Also I never let my son out of my sight when the pup is near him or can be near him. I practised this with my last staffy and he was brilliant with food, if I came near him he would step back from his bowl, sit and make eye contact with me and would not eat again until I let him.

My dog needs to have RESPECT for my son and she will. No matter what his age, he is her pack leader.

Oh dear.

[Staffygirl88]

Thanks koalathebear your reply was informative and hopefully it will be helpful. I got this puppy at a very bad time as my dad was diagnosed with cancer 5 days after she was flown down. I've been so stressed out and I'm sure she's picking up on that but I can't help being upset at the moment. I'll just have to try and hide my emotions from her the best I can and hope for the best. I do love the little rascal, just very bad timing.

I definitely understand about the bad timing issue. As some people here know, I’ve run into that recently myself. My father’s got stage 4 terminal cancer i.e. he’s dying. We’re usually not his primary care givers (we provide backup) but because of this and that, for the last few weeks my brother and I have been taking turns “dad-sitting”. Last week, my husband’s grandmother died so he flew back to Canada for 2 weeks and work got busy all of a sudden so I’ve spent a lot of time driving around like a maniac and my poor puppy was left alone for 12 hours on the day my husband left for Canada. There was just nothing else that could be done. Fortunately since then, he’s only been left alone for maybe 8 hours during the day but still .. It’s not easy to ‘hide’ your emotions from your dog - I’ve had two good cries in the last couple of weeks and Elbie sits there looking bewildered and then he tries to lick my face. Point is - most problems are ok if they come in ones but when they come in twos, threes and fours ... that's when they get a bit overwhelming.

Hang in there. There are plenty of people who sympathise and understand that just because you express frustration and distress about your dog doesn’t mean that you don’t want a dog and that you didn’t know what you were getting into. Don't get onto online arguments - it's just not worth it and it's the last thing you need right now when you have so many other demands on your emotions. You're here to get help not debate or defend yourself.

As my husband and I have discussed, the reality of owning a puppy can be quite different to one's imaginings. We thought that we were very prepared but seriously, there were times when we thought: "How on earth does such a little thing create so much poop?????" and "You just wee'd - how on earth did you do it again????" I feel quite a bit of regret that during Elbie’s early puppy days we were so busy reacting, following, cleaning up, correcting etc that we probably didn’t ‘enjoy’ his snubby nosed puppy awkwardness as much as we would have liked so I hope you can find a few quiet moments to enjoy as well as react.

;)

[poodlefan]

Staffygirl88: sorry for hijacking your thread for a second, but I just wanted to ask poodlefan something ...

PF: about the handling of the food - when we got got Elbie we read that you were supposed to play with their food so that they didn't become possessive about it so from day 1 we've always played with his food, made him wait for it. Sometimes we put it at a distance, release him and then make him sit halfway just so he has better control of himself around food. Is that flawed or is it just that children shouldn't be playing with the dog's food? Same with the 'waking sleeping dogs' thing, Elbie's always been quite used to being patted while he's sleeping since he was very little and we will wake him up when it's time for him to be crated so that we can go to bed and we just get a kind of drowsy placidity when he's woken up.

Where did you read that? Its a very simplistic take on issues of resources and dominance. This kind of advice tends to go hand in had with no dogs on furniture and alpharolls as ways of "ensuring dominance" Yes, as the people we're supposed to control all resources but increasing anxiety about food can be an unintended consequence of this process.

If a pup is a resource guarder, increasing anxiety about food ESCALATES the problem. And the pup is only half the equation - we have a 2 year old learning here too. He's learning that its a good thing to interfere with a dog when its eating. It's rewarded behaviour for him too.

Here we have a baby puppy that's going to grow into a very powerful dog and that is displaying a high degree of arousal around food. Add a 2 year old being encouraged to interfere when pup is feeding.

What we want is a puppy that displays a high degree of self control and calmness around food and a child that knows that when a dog is eating (that's any dog) you leave it alone.

That pup will be an adolescent soon and mum might not always watch the entire meal every time dog is fed. And we have a boy child just about to start experimenting with higher risk behaviours. Simply not safe.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I am of the camp that you do teach your pup to be able to put your hand in there bowl and take food put it back etc. so if i ever catch my dog with something they are eating and i dont want them too i can take it.

i would not do this with an older dog. but i do with my pup and will continue too.

i never put my hand in my dogs food nor do i take it away from her but i can assure you that if she has anything in her mouth that i want she drops it immediately.

she will also refuse food until i give her an ok.

imo if a dog is hungry it makes them anxious if the food is removed and i bekieve it is cruel.

my dog does not get fed until she has looked at me and i give a release word. in this way she understands i control the food and she controls when she gets it, ie the quicker she is calm the sooner she eats.

[Staffygirl88]

I understand your objections to my teachings and that's your opinion which you are entitled to. This is how I was taught and brought up with my dogs when I was a child. If my dog doesn't see my son as a pack leader then he will dominate my son and hurt him. I'm trying to teach the puppy to move away from the food when myself or my son approaches.

Also I never let my son out of my sight when the pup is near him or can be near him. I practised this with my last staffy and he was brilliant with food, if I came near him he would step back from his bowl, sit and make eye contact with me and would not eat again until I let him.

My dog needs to have RESPECT for my son and she will. No matter what his age, he is her pack leader.

Oh dear.

Why is this such a big problem for everyone? I'm there when she's being fed. If she sees him as a pack leader she won't snap at him when he goes near her food. Even if he's just walking past. And as I control the food I can take it away and give it back, if everyone did this with pups there wouldn't be food aggression because the dog would know they're going to get it back, but when their owner is ready to give it back.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I understand your objections to my teachings and that's your opinion which you are entitled to. This is how I was taught and brought up with my dogs when I was a child. If my dog doesn't see my son as a pack leader then he will dominate my son and hurt him. I'm trying to teach the puppy to move away from the food when myself or my son approaches.

Also I never let my son out of my sight when the pup is near him or can be near him. I practised this with my last staffy and he was brilliant with food, if I came near him he would step back from his bowl, sit and make eye contact with me and would not eat again until I let him.

My dog needs to have RESPECT for my son and she will. No matter what his age, he is her pack leader.

Oh dear.

Why is this such a big problem for everyone? I'm there when she's being fed. If she sees him as a pack leader she won't snap at him when he goes near her food. Even if he's just walking past. And as I control the food I can take it away and give it back, if everyone did this with pups there wouldn't be food aggression because the dog would know they're going to get it back, but when their owner is ready to give it back.

i saw a childs face after it had been ripped off when a dog had a bone and the child went to take it. i NEVER want to see that again. the child was 2 years old and known to the dog.

dogs, children and food DO NOT MIX.

eta you are expecting the dog and the child to behave exactly as you want them to in this situation and that is toitally unrealistic.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[Staffygirl88]

I am of the camp that you do teach your pup to be able to put your hand in there bowl and take food put it back etc. so if i ever catch my dog with something they are eating and i dont want them too i can take it.

i would not do this with an older dog. but i do with my pup and will continue too.

i never put my hand in my dogs food nor do i take it away from her but i can assure you that if she has anything in her mouth that i want she drops it immediately.

she will also refuse food until i give her an ok.

imo if a dog is hungry it makes them anxious if the food is removed and i bekieve it is cruel.

my dog does not get fed until she has looked at me and i give a release word. in this way she understands i control the food and she controls when she gets it, ie the quicker she is calm the sooner she eats.

I don't take her food away until she's almost finished her meal. I don't take it the second she gets it she's almost eaten all of it by the time I take it, then give it back.

[Staffygirl88]

i saw a childs face after it had been ripped off when a dog had a bone and the child went to take it. i NEVER want to see that again. the child was 2 years old and known to the dog.

dogs, children and food DO NOT MIX.

That is what I'm trying to prevent! I don't want my pup to be food aggressive at all to anyone! Which is why I take her food and give it back and put my hand in her bowl so that she doesn't snap at me when she's older.