My First Anonymous Letter

[bet hargreaves]

I have for around 20 years been involved in the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed. I am not a Breeder ,only a Cavalier Pet Owner of 30 odd years or so.

On Friday I received my First Anonymous Letter through the Post here in Scotland ,It was Vile.

The only reason for it that I can think of , I have been mentioning the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed , and this has been a way of trying to make me stop doing this, .

I was very upset at getting this Letter, but now I realize that some-body in the Cavalier World has been annoyed at what I have been saying and are hoping to hide the Truth from Prospective Buyers of Cavaliers about their Health Problems.

Bet Hargreaves

[WreckitWhippet]

Maybe someone thinks that what you are sprouting may not be the thruth and does not accurately portray the health status of dogs they have owned or bred.

Australian breeders have certainly argued that what you are claiming, is not what is happening in their own back yards.

[Boronia]

Anonymous Letter writers are just scummy weak-flea-low-lifes.

[GeckoTree]

yep not much of a spine if they wont put a name to a belief they hold. Any letter unsigned is not worth a pinch of goat poo. Jst shows what weak characters they are.

[Jed]

Unfortunately, that is the price to be paid for being visible.

I hope you have contacted the police, and have kept the letter and envelope.

I don't always agree with what you say, but am happy to make any remarks on this public forum, and harbour no resentment, although I do think your good intention of improving the breed will help to obliterate the breed. Perhaps others feel more strongly than I do.

Anyone who does not have the will to sign his name to correspondence is not worth worrying about, really.

[LizT]

Interesting that you refer to it as your "First" anonymous letter...are you expecting more?

People who take snipes at others, use vile obsenities and aren't prepared to back it up are not worth the time of day. Hope you have passed it on to the police.

[Sheridan]

Unfortunately, that is the price to be paid for being visible.

I hope you have contacted the police, and have kept the letter and envelope.

I don't always agree with what you say, but am happy to make any remarks on this public forum, and harbour no resentment, although I do think your good intention of improving the breed will help to obliterate the breed. Perhaps others feel more strongly than I do.

Anyone who does not have the will to sign his name to correspondence is not worth worrying about, really.

I don't think Bet wants to 'improve' the breed, I think she doesn't want sick dogs. I thought that would be everyone's goal but maybe I'm wrong.

[mita]

Anonymous letters should be just tossed into the bin, as a general rule. No signature, no acknowledgement of source? Ignore the content.

If there's threats against your person or property, then take it to the police.

As to the issue at the centre of the emotional storm. Health matters relating to Cavaliers. I notice you're in Scotland.

I can only give thumbs up to the Cav Clubs in Qld & Victoria, here in Australia, in facing up to the mitral valve problem, for example, by publishing an informative article by a staff member from the University of Melbourne, on their websites.

He refers to studies in Scandanavia & the Netherlands, where problems re purebred dogs also seem to get more level-headed attention. (And northern Europe, generally).

http://www.cavalierclubqld.net/MVD.htm

Just out of interest, some Scandanavian good sense from combined efforts of Kennel Club & School of Vet Science. Even includes Mental Health (of the dogs, that is )

http://www.actavetscand.com/content/50/S1/S6

Edited September 29, 2010 by mita

[bryan_mannix]

Perhaps others feel more strongly than I do.

No strength of feeling justifies this gutless behaviour.

I hope you have contacted the police, and have kept the letter and envelope.

Good advice. Make sure you do contact the police.

I don't think Bet wants to 'improve' the breed, I think she doesn't want sick dogs. I thought that would be everyone's goal but maybe I'm wrong.

Well I agree with you! So that makes two of us at least.

and good articles MITA.

[Jed]

Mita

I can only give thumbs up to the Cav Clubs in Qld & Victoria, here in Australia, in facing up to the mitral valve problem, for example, by publishing an informative article by a staff member from the University of Melbourne, on their websites.

breeders Aust wide are not too happy with this one, and a lot of questions are being asked about how many dogs were in the survey. Proof is being required about the dogs in the survey.

Lots of questions now being asked about surveys in general - 19 year old dog is free of MVD. Of course he is, he has been dead for years. Dogs being added into stats re SM are dogs referred to specialists by the vets as being suspected having SM synptoms.

Those 2 things would skew the figures either way

Much prefer to believe my own "surveys" - none of my dogs had MVD or SM. Thats all I know for sure, and it's too small to be a survey but it suits me.

Either my breeder friends are all liars, or they don't have MVD or SM either. I rather think they are telling the truth.

Sheridan

I don't think Bet wants to 'improve' the breed, I think she doesn't want sick dogs. I thought that would be everyone's goal but maybe I'm wrong.

I thought improving the breed, and not having sick dogs was the same goal.

Many serious and dedicated long time breeders in UK and USA do not approve of Bet or her methods. They state that her research is not well done or proven yet she distributes her theories and ideas on lists and forums on the net worldwide as scientifically proven without any proof or studies which back what she has to say. These are highly respected breeders who have been putting healthy and winning cavs on the ground for decades who do all the tests, who helped pay for and develop the tests, and who lose dogs well into their teens. They often post on lsts to refute what Bet says and to warn breeders about her.

I don't personally know any of the people involved, including Bet - so I read both sides. I have enjoyed reading what Bet has to say, although I don't always agree with it, and stats available for Aus seem to show a different picture from the one in UK. Bets theories have sent me off to research,l which has been good.

As I haven't bred Cavs for quite some time and will not breed again I haven't been followng it as closely as I might have 12 months ago.

Problem is that Bet doesn't understand how difficult it is to eradicate a disease for which there is no tests, no known mode of inheritance, and the onset of symptoms is usually after the dog's breeding life is over. And of course, if the progeny of dogs who showed late onset MVD are eracidated from breeding programs, the gene pool will be so reduced other and perhaps worse problems will surface.

But - I know many breeders are probably annoyed enough with Bet to send her an anonymous letter. However it would be postmarked, so that gives the police an immediate lead on area .... so I hope they catch him soon. It's a scabby thing to do.

Maybe for Bet to be posting here, the letter came from Australia?

Edited September 29, 2010 by Jed

[*Avanti*]

...the letter came from Australia.

The initial post did not inform us of that so thanks for the clarification if that is the case.

Edited September 29, 2010 by LabTested

[Jed]

Sorry Lab Tested, I have no idea where the letter orginated what I said was

Maybe for Bet to be posting here, the letter came from Australia?

[*Avanti*]

Sorry Lab Tested, I have no idea where the letter orginated what I said was

Maybe for Bet to be posting here, the letter came from Australia?

My sincere apologies Jed, I misunderstood. I read it as though you knew it came from Australia.

Edited September 29, 2010 by LabTested

[Sheridan]

Sheridan

I don't think Bet wants to 'improve' the breed, I think she doesn't want sick dogs. I thought that would be everyone's goal but maybe I'm wrong.

I thought improving the breed, and not having sick dogs was the same goal.

Then what did you mean by obliterating the breed?

although I do think your good intention of improving the breed will help to obliterate the breed.

[mita]

Rather than wasting time reading (or writing!) anonymous letters, there's interesting & useful information found by looking at the swag of latest research (2010 & around). Scroll a long way down on the site below to find Current Research listed, at length.

It's also interesting to know that other small breeds can have heart valve problems with a genetic base. And that degeneration with age means that up to third of all dogs over the age of ten have some mitral valve insufficiency...that is, it's acquired. Rather than from a heritable predisposition, as found among Cavs & some other small breeds (I notice the little poodles & dachies tend to get mentioned). Apparently, the key is rapidity with which the condition progresses in these affected dogs.

Looks like one flow-on from research about treatments for the heritable ailments is that it'll also bring out helpful info for dogs that acquire mitral valve insufficiency with age.

Re breeding protocols, there's an entry at the start of the list, referring to protocols developed in Sweden in 2001 to limit the occurrence of mitral valve problems. But late research has shown it hasn't made a difference. It says stricter earlier protocols will be tried.

http://www.cavalierhealth.com/mitral_valve_disease.htm

In the meantime, I think Jed is spot on in her comments about keeping records of her dogs (with those breeders she deals with, also doing so). So much of the 'searchlight' gets put on seeking out suss dogs & lines. But it's just as critical to suss out dogs & lines with low-incidence. That's what the international tibbie health working party do, re liver shunt. They keep collecting in a data base the dogs where there's evidence of beng towards the clear. It's a reasonable goal to work towards continuance of the breed, in as healthy a form as possible, while at the same time working to manage a heritable problem.

By the way, Buddy p/b Cavalier and long-time therapy dog at Everton Park State High in Brisbane, started 'work' at age 2 yrs & died recently at around 14 years. Still at his school job until recent months. He was the product of a registered breeder. Something worked well there re both health & temperament.

Buddy's memorial plaque at the school, reads, 'Buddy, a friend to everyone.' His ashes are buried in the school garden.

Edited September 30, 2010 by mita

[Jed]

Mita, also, the first link you gave, to Russell Mitton's remarks re MVD testing is about 10 years old. I think he is now retired? Now, that info is fine for the general public, it does tell them what they need to know. However, it has now been dragged up onto a forum in UK, and is being touted as new information, and being used to illustrate how little improvement there is in the health of Cavaliers. I am not criticising you, it's not important ..... until someone takes it and uses it as "scientific fact" to bash breeders.

*sigh*

I edited the rest. I don't breed any more, someone else can carry the flag.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Jed

[bet hargreaves]

Mita

I can only give thumbs up to the Cav Clubs in Qld & Victoria, here in Australia, in facing up to the mitral valve problem, for example, by publishing an informative article by a staff member from the University of Melbourne, on their websites.

breeders Aust wide are not too happy with this one, and a lot of questions are being asked about how many dogs were in the survey. Proof is being required about the dogs in the survey.

Lots of questions now being asked about surveys in general - 19 year old dog is free of MVD. Of course he is, he has been dead for years. Dogs being added into stats re SM are dogs referred to specialists by the vets as being suspected having SM synptoms.

Those 2 things would skew the figures either way

Much prefer to believe my own "surveys" - none of my dogs had MVD or SM. Thats all I know for sure, and it's too small to be a survey but it suits me.

Either my breeder friends are all liars, or they don't have MVD or SM either. I rather think they are telling the truth.

Sheridan

I don't think Bet wants to 'improve' the breed, I think she doesn't want sick dogs. I thought that would be everyone's goal but maybe I'm wrong.

I thought improving the breed, and not having sick dogs was the same goal.

Many serious and dedicated long time breeders in UK and USA do not approve of Bet or her methods. They state that her research is not well done or proven yet she distributes her theories and ideas on lists and forums on the net worldwide as scientifically proven without any proof or studies which back what she has to say. These are highly respected breeders who have been putting healthy and winning cavs on the ground for decades who do all the tests, who helped pay for and develop the tests, and who lose dogs well into their teens. They often post on lsts to refute what Bet says and to warn breeders about her.

I don't personally know any of the people involved, including Bet - so I read both sides. I have enjoyed reading what Bet has to say, although I don't always agree with it, and stats available for Aus seem to show a different picture from the one in UK. Bets theories have sent me off to research,l which has been good.

As I haven't bred Cavs for quite some time and will not breed again I haven't been followng it as closely as I might have 12 months ago.

Problem is that Bet doesn't understand how difficult it is to eradicate a disease for which there is no tests, no known mode of inheritance, and the onset of symptoms is usually after the dog's breeding life is over. And of course, if the progeny of dogs who showed late onset MVD are eracidated from breeding programs, the gene pool will be so reduced other and perhaps worse problems will surface.

But - I know many breeders are probably annoyed enough with Bet to send her an anonymous letter. However it would be postmarked, so that gives the police an immediate lead on area .... so I hope they catch him soon. It's a scabby thing to do.

Maybe for Bet to be posting here, the letter came from Australia?

MY FIRST ANONYMOUS LETTER

I hope I will be allowed to answer why asto why I am not popular with some Cavalier Breeders here in Britain.

It all started at the beginning when the Problem of SM in Cavaliers appeared and I was asked to help the Researchers with the Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from SM. I have been interested in the History of our Cavalier Breed and their Pedigrees for over 30 Years.

At that time I could not make sense of the SM Problem and said so .

With some of the Cavalier Breeders because of me doing this ,I was the Flavour of the Month and could do no wrong in their Eyes.

Then I saw the Wee Tri Cavalier Sreaming in Pain because of SM on the PDE TV Program ,and realized I knew nothing at all about what I was saying about the Cavaliers' SM Problem, even to this day I have not been fogiven for changing sides in saying what I now believe about the serious SM Problem Afflicting our Cavaliers.

I have always fought for the Cavaliers and their MVD Problem for around 20 years, collected Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble and sent them to Researchers at a Couple of Universities who were Researching the MVD Problem in our Cavaliers,.

The Cavalier Breeders here in Britain were warned in 1983 by Dr P.Darke, the CKCS CLUB'S Cardiologist ,from Surveys that he had done at Cavalier Shows about how Wide-Spread the MVD Problem was in Cavaliers.

At the UK CKCS CLUB 's AGM Last year , it was mentioned by the The Cardiologist giving a Lecture at it, that 50% of Cavaliers 5-6 years of age have MVD and this is no better than it was 18 years ago.

I have never said any-thing that I have not been told by the Cavalier Researchers into their MVD and SM Problems,.

Finally ,surely it is not wrong to make Prospective Cavalier Buyers aware about the SM and MVD Problems in Cavaliers ,and advise them to ask to see a Certificate to show that the Cavalier Breeder is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

Is it those methods that make me so Unpopular with some Cavalier Breeders here in Britain?

For the sake of our Cavaliers I really hope not.

Bet Hargreaves

[Jed]

Of course you can reply, Bet. I deleted what I said after a little consideration, but you had obviously copied it before I did that. I would have preferred that what breeders said remained off a public forum. But it did at least give you the chance to respond, which I think is good.

I personally have no quarrel with you - as I said before, you have made me research and learn, and you have sent me thinking in different areas.

The incidence of MVD in Aus and NZ is falling - according to the stats. who knows.

And I still think that anyone who sends an anonymous letter is a coward.

As a breeder, I found PDE extremely offensive, untrue and inflammatory. It is now obvious that it has caused untold damage to the purebred dog world, and if it has caused any good, it hasn't come to light yet.

Bet Hargraves

Finally ,surely it is not wrong to make Prospective Cavalier Buyers aware about the SM and MVD Problems in Cavaliers ,and advise them to ask to see a Certificate to show that the Cavalier Breeder is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

Absolutely not. I guarantee all the pups I breed against any hereditary problem. Refund or a new dog, and keep the original one, if they wish. I tell them I wont replace if the dog has MVD when he is 8+ - but I will do something - partial refund, or partial payment for another pup. So far I have bred one which needed pts at 2 because of megaoesophagus, and one which died at 16 weeks from an aneurism. Second not hereditary. First one - maybe.

Both were offered a new dog or refund. Second took the new dog option.

I don't care if people mention problems in the breed to prospective buyers.

I never bothered to tell people about SM, but if I bred in future, I would but mainly because of the chances of some numpty vet putting down a 5 month old Cavalier because the thought it had SM

Is it those methods that make me so Unpopular with some Cavalier Breeders here in Britain?

Dunno :p

Edited October 1, 2010 by Jed

[Dellcara]

Is it those methods that make me so Unpopular with some Cavalier Breeders here in Britain?

Bet Hargreaves

probably more to do with your continual "doom & gloom" and "breeder bashing" on an almost daily basis

on any forum you can find.