Different Behaviour On The Move

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Bit puzzled and hoping people can throw some ideas at me.

One of our dogs, a young bitch, is fine while walking in quite busy and congested areas. OK with other dogs, bicycles, cars, old people, prams, kids etc. She walks along in a quite business-like fashion.

However, when we stop - for example, for a coffee - her reactivity escalates and she barks at other dogs, kids and anything else she considers out of the ordinary. I tried handing her off to someone else and the barking escalated to lunging, so while I'm not happy about the barking, at least it appears I have some control. Ordinarily I'd call it territorial if a dog barked while its pack was stationary but I don't think it is territorial. If I had to guess I'd say frustration - but I'm not sure why she wouldn't express the same frustration while moving. Perhaps because on the move life isn't as boring?

Any thoughts? How would you handle it? If it is frustration I think dealing with that will be more successful than correcting the barking alone but could use some hints either way.

Edited April 2, 2011 by SkySoaringMagpie

[poodlefan]

This one's a bit out of my league.. is the behaviour protective/defensive or more predatory to you think??

I know with some dogs, being stationary increases their feeling of vulnerability and therefore their aggressive responses. Perhaps being with someone else might have produced a similar response??

Sounds like Howie the Stable Pony best come on the next one.

Edited September 19, 2010 by poodlefan

[SkySoaringMagpie]

This one's a bit out of my league.. is the behaviour protective/defensive or more predatory to you think??

I know with some dogs, being stationary increases their feeling of vulnerability and therefore their aggressive responses. Perhaps being with someone else might have produced a similar response??

Sounds like Howie the Stable Pony best come on the next one.

Well that's the thing, she was fine with the walking "pack" of 6 dogs apart from a little initial friction between her and another bitch. She did settle with that bitch tho' and all of them were sighthounds. So while Howie is a nice Stable Pony I doubt he would make much of a difference if any - she was already with her "peeps" with the other Salukis there and trotted on quite happily with them. It's small dogs she goes off at, she ignored a lab and a large doodle, so I'm wondering if part of it is predatory. To my mind it definitely isn't protective/defensive - I have seen that in her breed and she is quite different. Someone observant noticed she was wagging her tail while doing it.

Edit: edited the edit, don't think it's all that relevant.

Edited September 19, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Aidan3]

It's one of the reasons I like socialisation experiences to be "on the move". When you're moving somewhere you're doing something and you're less likely to react. There are possibly some biological reasons (parasympathetic nervous system if walking calmly) and adaptive, evolutionary reasons (moving with the group). There might be some other learning going on, misinterpreted handler cues for e.g.

My guess would be reactive dog who is well trained to walk on leash, hence nothing obvious while moving. An alternative way to look at it would be calm dog who has learned to be reactive when still (for whatever reason). It's all "just behaviour". You might find you can quite quickly teach calm, stationary behaviours if you make that your focus and set her up for success, starting from scratch. The "Look At That" game would be one avenue.

If you think it's genuine aggression, you know the drill... professional help and all that...

[SkySoaringMagpie]

My guess would be reactive dog who is well trained to walk on leash, hence nothing obvious while moving. An alternative way to look at it would be calm dog who has learned to be reactive when still (for whatever reason). It's all "just behaviour". You might find you can quite quickly teach calm, stationary behaviours if you make that your focus and set her up for success, starting from scratch. The "Look At That" game would be one avenue.

This is close to my gut feel as I was pondering it this afternoon - I wondered if what I needed to do was to train more self-control exercises, because I think part of it is short attention span plus barrier frustration because of being on leash and boredom sitting still. Just googled the "Look at that" game and that looks promising.

[poodlefan]

What's she like if she's sitting with her "peeps" SSM?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

What's she like if she's sitting with her "peeps" SSM?

All the other dogs, with the exception of an exuberant 11 month old puppy who has no fear and no worries in the world, were extremely calm and well behaved while sitting. I would expect her to take her cue from the other dogs in that respect but she didn't appear to. That said, it wasn't constant - so not one of those bark bark bark bark horror shows that never stops. However it did get worse the longer we sat there, hence my feeling it is frustration based.

[Vehs]

I think you are spot on with the bored/frustration.

Dieter gets bored when we are standing still and he is idle - If I can't let him offlead I have found I need to give him a job to do such as going in to extended stays or get him to give me his paws. While not aggressive he will bark at other dogs to get them to come over and play if he isn't distracted by his tasks....

The other mum borrowed him for her walking group around the lake, when they stopped to stretch he (being onlead and tied to a log) began barking at them to get moving again! Now she's going to put him into stays...

Also, generally, when people are walking the are confident assertive and the dog just follows along - a different, more relaxed, stance was probably taken when you were trying to enjoy your drink!

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Thanks Vehs, that sounds like it's definitely worth a try.

Keshwar found this too today, I was particularly interested in point 4.

http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/dog-d...y-ii-the-basics

4. If the dog wants to get to other dogs to interact, (and is barking because she is frustrated) then increasing the distance between her and another dog is a punishment, not a reinforcement. For these dogs, you can teach some form of polite behavior, like stopping and looking back at the owner, again long before she has reached threshold, and give her food, play or access to the other dog as a reinforcement. Needless to say, interactions should be done carefully and only with dogs who are totally trustable.

[Diva]

SSM, just let me know if you want to practice that last technique with the most social of mine in the role of the other dog.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Diva

[SkySoaringMagpie]

SSM, just let me know if you want to practice that last technique with the most social of mine in the role of the other dog.

Sounds great.

;)

[SpecTraining]

Bit puzzled and hoping people can throw some ideas at me.

One of our dogs, a young bitch, is fine while walking in quite busy and congested areas. OK with other dogs, bicycles, cars, old people, prams, kids etc. She walks along in a quite business-like fashion.

However, when we stop - for example, for a coffee - her reactivity escalates and she barks at other dogs, kids and anything else she considers out of the ordinary. I tried handing her off to someone else and the barking escalated to lunging, so while I'm not happy about the barking, at least it appears I have some control. Ordinarily I'd call it territorial if a dog barked while its pack was stationary but I don't think it is territorial. If I had to guess I'd say frustration - but I'm not sure why she wouldn't express the same frustration while moving. Perhaps because on the move life isn't as boring?

Any thoughts? How would you handle it? If it is frustration I think dealing with that will be more successful than correcting the barking alone but could use some hints either way.

Has she always been ok on the move, or did she used to be a bit reactive on the move intially???

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

On the move, there would be a lot more "input" for a dog to deal with. And a dog would have to pay some attention to where the pack was, just to keep up and that would leave less time for eyeing off approaching dogs. Just sitting around, there would be plenty of time for a dog to fixate on an approaching SWF.

I had a similar problem at dog class tonight. After class, I'm chatting. Dog is on lead. Dog not doing much but spots a possum going for a ground walk - "over there". Goes BUNTA. Possums were active during class but she only got distracted by possum poo - under her nose, didn't have time to check out what was going on "over there".

Oh and when she wants to chase the neighbour's cat, she wags her tail. She's very happy but it doesn't mean that she wants to make friends with the cat. :S

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Has she always been ok on the move, or did she used to be a bit reactive on the move intially???

In some situations she has been reactive on the move. When we were training for the endurance test and met up with some border collies also training for the test she was at the head of the line and she turned around and barked every now and then at the BCs (nowhere near constantly). The BCs were very well behaved and their owners dog cluey (ie, they didn't get up her butt) so it wasn't a matter of unreasonable provocation. Anyway, she didn't take the test as she suffered a leg injury as a result of a dog attack so I don't know if she would have improved in that context.

On reflection I now have a much better picture of how I unwittingly set up the situation in the park to get the result I did and then made it worse. As I said to Diva offline, this was one of those hindsight being 20/20 retrospective :rolleyes: dog training moments. Those of us who aren't professionals can confess to those in public!!!

I plan to train the "Look at That" game rules with her over the next few weeks with some other self-confidence and self-control exercises and then catch up with Diva and her Russian supermodel for some dog on dog work. If that works out I will beg the use of PF and her Howie to grade down to smaller dogs.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

On the move, there would be a lot more "input" for a dog to deal with. And a dog would have to pay some attention to where the pack was, just to keep up and that would leave less time for eyeing off approaching dogs. Just sitting around, there would be plenty of time for a dog to fixate on an approaching SWF.

I had a similar problem at dog class tonight. After class, I'm chatting. Dog is on lead. Dog not doing much but spots a possum going for a ground walk - "over there". Goes BUNTA. Possums were active during class but she only got distracted by possum poo - under her nose, didn't have time to check out what was going on "over there".

Oh and when she wants to chase the neighbour's cat, she wags her tail. She's very happy but it doesn't mean that she wants to make friends with the cat. :S

Yes, that all sounds familiar particularly the tail wagging part. To segue over to another thread theme too, she is hunting stock. I don't say that to be an appalling wanker, but her parents are both owned by a breeder/hunter in the middle east and both parents successfully hunt hare and gazelle - sometimes with falcon. On our property she "interacts" with rabbits more than SWFs. As Diva wisely noted in another thread, if you have one of these breeds then integrating their behaviour into modern life can require a bit of thought - something I am only displaying after the fact in this situation. However, i also don't want to overstate the problem. We're talking about barking here when she is in my hands, not full on "l must kill it!!" lunging. Overall I think she did quite well in the situation I put her in.

[Diva]

However, i also don't want to overstate the problem. We're talking about barking here when she is in my hands, not full on "l must kill it!!" lunging. Overall I think she did quite well in the situation I put her in.

Having seen the behaviour I'd agree not to overstate the problem. It was embarrassing for you I think, but she mostly looked young, too fond of the sound of her own voice, overly excited and in need of a bit of training in how to behave in that situation. She walked beautifully and calmly and that was what she spent most of the time doing, so you are at least half-way to the demeanour you want.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Diva

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Despite the fact that my dog loves chasing things, almost as much as she likes being pursued...

So far, she's useless at killing things.

She has successfully chased and cornered a rabbit and several cats, but the second she catches up with them, she doesn't know what to do apart from standing there barking at them - like RUN why doncha? I've given her mice that haven't been killed by the traps and she just sniffs and sometimes licks them. No killer chomp. Even if I let the mouse go.

I think I'm grateful. But in the case of the mice, it means I have to knock them off, which I don't enjoy. Much prefer the trap did it in the first place.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I took her to see Steve Courtney yesterday and he worked out what was going on in that little doggy brain very quickly and has given me some ideas to address it. Looking forward to the notes.

(and thank you to Diva for driving and and the lollies)