Kuma Doesn't Like Our Visitor

[KumaAkita]

So I'm in a bit of a predicament... We have a friend staying with us at the moment. For the sake of this story, we'll call him Dupree (anyone seen the movie You, Me and Dupree???).

Dupree's wife gave him the boot and he lobbed on our doorstep looking for refuge. We took him in - my understanding that it was "short term" which to me means a couple of weeks (like, 2-3 max). That was 2 months ago. The biggest issue is that Kuma doesn't like him. At all. Kuma will spend all his time trying to bite Dupree, nipping, jumping, all the stuff that he wouldn't dare do with us normally. We do everything we can to stop it, but it's like Kuma's challenging him for position. Last night, OH was out and it was just Dupree and me at home. Kuma was really over the top and I couldn't get him to calm down. He was getting really rough with Dupree and was ignoring all my commands to stop. He also just won't listen to anything Dupree tells him to do.

In an effort to stop him, I focussed him to some training and he responded quite well, but everytime Dupree even so much as moved, Kuma wanted to bite him. I need to stress that there is no teeth baring, no growling or barking. It is almost like Kuma is pinning Dupree to a spot and if he moves off that spot, Kuma needs to put him back in place. If Dupree is walking around the house, Kuma will "ankle tap" and try to get him to the ground. We had been giving him 10 minute time outs (backyard time) to calm down, but it doesn't seem to be working anymore.

Is Kuma feeding off my resentment towards this guy? I'm not comfortable with him in my house anymore and he doesn't seem to be taking the hint that it's time to go. Now, Kuma is normally really good with visitors. We had our neighbours over for lunch on sunday and he just came over to say Hi and then went and laid in the sun. No jumping, wrestling or biting. It just seems to be this guy.

Life before Dupree moved in?? Of an evening, Kuma would come in the house, lay down on the rug on the loungeroom floor and snore contently. Except if the Cantebury Bankstown Bulldogs are playing footy on the TV, then he will sit and watch the game intently. (personally, think he's upset the Doggies didn't make it to the finals... )

Any DOLers out there that can give me some advice on what to do? I'd like to fix his "hatred" of this guy, before it escalates too much more.

[Dogs4Fun]

I tend to trust my dog's judgements on other people.

It sounds like you are ready for this guy to go. Sit him down and tell him so. Get your life and sanity back.

[poodlefan]

All dog issues aside, sounds like its time Dupree found another place to stay.

On a dog side, this sounds like territorial dominance... potentially quite dangerous. Get rid of your houseguest or get in a behaviourist. This has the potential to escalate to serious aggression. The muzzle tapping in particular is not a good sign.

If you dont' have a crate, I think you should invest in one today.

Edited September 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[megan_]

I tend to trust my dog's judgements on other people.

It sounds like you are ready for this guy to go. Sit him down and tell him so. Get your life and sanity back.

While I think the visitor is rude, letting the dog carry on like this is dangerous. It is the OP's house - SHE decides who comes and goes, not the dog.

Dogs don't judge "character", they judge body language. My girl, who was abused, is fearful of everyone. Should I distrust every human on the planet?

[Noelle]

How I love Akitas Dupree has to go, very soon. I would trust my dogs instincts in not trusting the visitor.

[Crisovar]

The behaviour needs to be stopped regardless of how long this visitor has overstayed his welcome,

that sort of behaviour is unacceptable and could lead to heartache,

[KumaAkita]

All dog issues aside, sounds like its time Dupree found another place to stay.

On a dog side, this sounds like territorial dominance... potentially quite dangerous. Get rid of your houseguest or get in a behaviourist. This has the potential to escalate to serious aggression. The muzzle tapping in particular is not a good sign.

If you dont' have a crate, I think you should invest in one today.

We have a crate, and he also has a bed in the laundry which is blocked off by a baby gate. If we crate him or put him in his "room", he will calm down. OH and I can usually get him to maintain his calm, but it is just with this one person that he is going nutso.

The behaviour needs to be stopped regardless of how long this visitor has overstayed his welcome,

that sort of behaviour is unacceptable and could lead to heartache,

Agree, and that is what I'm working towards... Just looking for guidance...

[poodlefan]

KA:

We have a crate, and he also has a bed in the laundry which is blocked off by a baby gate. If we crate him or put him in his "room", he will calm down. OH and I can usually get him to maintain his calm, but it is just with this one person that he is going nutso.

The difference between this person and all your visitors is that this person is now part of the household. He isn't coming and going. He lives there.

I would ring and book an appointment with Dr Sandra Hassett at the Animal Medical Centre at Phillip. She's the closest thing to a behaviorist locally. If you're prepared to travel, go see K9Pro in Sydney ASAP.

If Dupree reacts the wrong way to all of this, I don't like what might happen. Kuma isn't warning Dupree - he means business IMO.

I would not be giving this dog free rein in the house AT ALL. Crate him for Dupree's safety whenever both are inside. Or close some doors.

[oakway]

Well I suppose it depends who you want in the house with you.

I know what I would do.

Too bad, so sad, bye, bye Dupree

[aussielover]

If you don't want him in the house, get rid of him!

I think it is perfectly possible that Kuma is sensing that you are uncomfortable with the guy and is therefore reacting in an abnormal way.

The behaviour he is displaying is as others have said, potentially dangerous.

You could get in a behaviourist, but perhaps that would lead to you feel even more resentful of the guy (I know it would make me feel very annoyed).

Personally I think it is difficult enough to have someone in the house living with you whom you don't like or resent their presence.

For me it would have to come down to who I would rather have in the house with me- Kuma or the Guy?

If Kuma's behaviour towards visitors persists after he leaves, then definitely see a behaviourist.

[KumaAkita]

Whilst the easy solution would be to boot Dupree, it doesn't solve the potential underlying issue.

We have often had overnight and long term visitors (we're the only Canberrans on both sides, so visitors stay over lots). Kuma has not had a problem with any the other visitors who have stayed, it is just this one person. Perhaps it is length of time, or he is feeding off my resentment.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

regardless of what the dog thinks of this person the behaviour is totally unacceptable and needs fixing. i suggest you get a behaviouralist in.

the problem is what if he decides someone else shouldnt be there? if this is not fixed then this dog will be determining who can and cant come into the house.

separate the dog and get a professional in to help

Edited September 16, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[Tilly]

I had a similar situation with our rottie when I had a particular male visitor ... the dog hated him and made it extremely clear. I ended a friendship with this guy because of the dogs reaction and have never regretted it for one moment - all my dogs have been good judges of character.

Having said that ... I would have an issue if the dog didn't back off when I asked him too and do agree about getting some professional assistance.

Just curious ... but was Kuma's behaviour like this from the beginning or just built up over time? Also - has Dupree been left alone with Kuma prior to this occurring?

[mirawee]

Perhaps it is length of time, or he is feeding off my resentment.

When did the issues start? When you started getting annoyed by how long Dupree was there? Or from the first day but it has now escalated?

[KumaAkita]

Mirawee - at the beginning, Kuma was fine. Playful, but not dominant. Pretty much the same he is with us. It started about 3 weeks into the stay and has escalated. It was about week 4 that both OH and I decided that Dupree's time was up. You see, Dupree makes statements about looking at houses and real estate agents, so we haven't pushed him to move out thinking that he will be gone soon anyway.

Tilly - Nope, Kuma hadn't been left alone with Dupree at any time before this. He had visited with his family, but never alone with the dog

I'm pretty sure that Kuma feeding off my resentment. The more I think about this, the more I realise that my mood changes when he walks in the door, or I come home and see his car parked out the front.

Wow. I'm making my dog become a dominant beastie. My bad.

Another thing is that Dupree submits to Kuma. We have told him how to behave with Kuma and how to assert his place in our pack, but he won't follow through. He will back off and say "no worries big fella, you're in control. Your house, no drama." We say to Dupree that it is our house, not the dog's. Now, that doesn't excuse Kuma for trying to dominate, but can that be fuelling his quest for dominance?

Edited September 16, 2010 by KumaAkita

[poodlefan]

Wow. I'm making my dog become a dominant beastie. My bad.

You can't heighten what isn't already present.

Most Akita breed reviews note the breed has issues with strangers and dominance. IMO you dealing with hard wired behaviour that needs to be carefully managed to stop it becoming a serious issue.

If you wanted a dog that viewed house guests as new friends, you got the wrong breed.

This is why you need to rein this in now and restrict Kuma in the house while Dupree remains. Longer term management will require professional advice but Kuma sounds like a fairly typical example of his breed.

Edited September 16, 2010 by poodlefan

[aussielover]

Mirawee - at the beginning, Kuma was fine. Playful, but not dominant. Pretty much the same he is with us. It started about 3 weeks into the stay and has escalated. It was about week 4 that both OH and I decided that Dupree's time was up. You see, Dupree makes statements about looking at houses and real estate agents, so we haven't pushed him to move out thinking that he will be gone soon anyway.

Tilly - Nope, Kuma hadn't been left alone with Dupree at any time before this. He had visited with his family, but never alone with the dog

I'm pretty sure that Kuma feeding off my resentment. The more I think about this, the more I realise that my mood changes when he walks in the door, or I come home and see his car parked out the front.

Wow. I'm making my dog become a dominant beastie. My bad. ;)

Another thing is that Dupree submits to Kuma. We have told him how to behave with Kuma and how to assert his place in our pack, but he won't follow through. He will back off and say "no worries big fella, you're in control. Your house, no drama." We say to Dupree that it is our house, not the dog's. Now, that doesn't excuse Kuma for trying to dominate, but can that be fuelling his quest for dominance?

You didn't mention before that both you AND OH are fed up with Dupree.

No wonder Kuma is acting strangely towards this guy. I am sure he can sense that both of you don't want Dupree there anymore and Akita's do have quite a strong protective instinct. He probably thinks he is doing his job, because you guys can't do it.

You can't really change how you feel about Dupree, so I think the only safe situation is to get Dupree out of the house ASAP and completely separate Kuma from Dupree until then (you could make dupree sleep in Kuma's kennel outside or something :D )

To be fair to Dupree about backing down to Kuma- I would imagine a big Akita nipping. biting, growling and jumping at you would be pretty intimidating! Also, if he does try to assert himslef, Kuma may actually escalate and bite/attack.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: You probably are over the house guest and whilst him leaving may remove the problem, I would be asking why your dog is dictating who can live in your home.

I think your management must be very good or this could have turned disasterous.

If you werent at all bothered by him staying there when he first arrived but your dog was aggressive toward him, I think this rules out your influence.

Given the time span, I would lean away from the dog being fearful of him and suggest there are probably some rank issues there.

I really think you should seriously think about getting some help, I will wage that there will be other areas of concern also.

A large dog displaying aggression can be very dangerous.

[KumaAkita]

I don't want anyone to think we didn't know what we were getting into when we got an Akita. Did a lot of research before settling on our breed. We also met many examples of the breed...

The majority of the time, Kuma is a cuddly bear. He is in obedience, been through puppy preschool and adolescent puppy classes. He is well socialised, loves other dogs, really good with little dogs (quite submissive really), good with strangers in the street - you get a lot of attention walking an Akita. Good with small animals - likes cats, hates indian miner birds (who doesn't?). We have strict rules in our house. No carpet, no couch. No jumping, no biting. He is most certainly at the bottom of our pack. We are aware that we need strict boundaries with Akitas.

This is the only time he has shown aggression.

Aussielover: Yeah, sorry... should have mentioned that OH is fed up too. He just doesn't want to be bad cop and ruin a friendship he has had since primary school.

Oh and I don't expect that Dupree would have the same dominance/control over Kuma, I was just wondering that by being so actively submissive to a dominant dog are you reinforcing that behaviour? Kind of like patting Kuma when he's biting you...

[tdierikx]

Boot Dupree, and thank Kuma for having the balls to tell the guy what you've been putting off telling him...

T.