Youngster Mauled In Dog Attack

[Staffygirl88]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

No dog cares if the human it lives with is a cop or a baker. If the human doesn't take control in the home then the dog will. If the dog is prowling and growling he needs to be corrected, it's pretty simple. And the people coming into his home need to ignore the dog until it approaches them, if they're scared the dog will feel that and become more dominant. He obviously rules his human pack.

[Staffygirl88]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

Are you saying if this person with the Rotty had a friendly Golden Retriever the Goldie would act exactly as the Rotty does in this persons ownership...........CRAP

Fiona

It's not the breed! It's like talking to brick walls when trying to tell people that it is not the damn breed! FYI Fiona, I have met an aggresive (friendly in your terms) Golden Retriever so yes they would act exactly the same. To think that they wouldn't is really, well honestly it's idiotic. Little dogs can be the most vicious of all because everyone mollycoddles them when they get scared which only encourages them to be fear-aggressive. ANY breed can be vicious. To believe anything otherwise is dangerous. Just because it's fluffy or features on a toilet roll ad doesn't mean it can't be aggressive.

[Staffygirl88]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

Ones choice of employment and success in one field hardly makes someone a genius or capable of making sensible judgement in other matters. The Rottie sounds like it has issues, that is what makes it unsafe, not the breed it happens to be.

It could be said that the dog is exhibiting extreme, exaggerated behaviour innate in the breed. She's herding and guarding her pack. All outsiders are threatening and she's warning them off with her posture and growling when they enter her territory.

So you think you know more about dogs than police dog handlers and trainers. Particularly in relation to a dog you've never met? But you are right in one respect. He hasn't used good judgment in this instance. The dog should be given the green dream as because of her size and bite capability, she is dangerous . She lives in a constant state of aggression/anxiety. Such a situtation benefits no one - neither the owners nor the dog.

If she was herding she'd be nipping the people who weren't going where she wanted them to go.

It's a disgusting thing to say that this dog should be killed because her owner can't control her. If he has that kind of trouble with her he should take her to a dog psychologist because obviously, all the great police dog training isn't doing her any good. And to say it's the breed's fault is infruriating.

[Jed]

Mum to Emma

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

Yes, he is a fool. He has failed to provide the dog with adequate leadership, which is why it " prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. " And even though it behaves so he doesn't have enough smarts to have the dog euthanased, now that he has ruined it, and made it dangerous. And he could have just as easily done the same to any and every breed.

Peeps, we are wasting our time with these people. They believe whatever garbage they read in the newspapers and see on TV, are too lazy and uninterested to check the veracity for themselves, and sufficiently bog ignorant to continually refute all evidence and stats presented to them, preferring instead to cling to their beliefs.

Why bother?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Jed

[Staffygirl88]

Like I said Jed, it's like talking to a brick wall. I know better than to reply but it just makes me so angry!

[Puppoochi]

you guys that are ever so good at controlling your dogs in such a good manner,you all must be the Australia's answer to Caesar Milan. Can't wait to see you all on TV with your new shows. Even Caesar Milan recognizes some dogs as being RED ZONE cases that require special rehabilitation at his dog centre.

Now do you think, the average dog owner has the ability to fix red zone cases, I really don't think so. :laugh:

and I don't think I've seen a show where he's had to rehabilitate a little fluffy as a RED ZONE CASE?

Correct me if I'm wrong

Edited September 19, 2010 by poodiful1

[Rottigirl]

fluffy enough?

[J.H.M]

you guys that are ever so good at controlling your dogs in such a good manner,you all must be the Australia's answer to Caesar Milan. Can't wait to see you all on TV with your new shows. Even Caesar Milan recognizes some dogs as being RED ZONE cases that require special rehabilitation at his dog centre.

Now do you think, the average dog owner has the ability to fix red zone cases, I really don't think so. :laugh:

and I don't think I've seen a show where he's had to rehabilitate a little fluffy as a RED ZONE CASE?

Correct me if I'm wrong

FINALLY you have said DOGS and not BREEDS are we finally getting through to you :D

Edited September 19, 2010 by JRM75

[Staffygirl88]

you guys that are ever so good at controlling your dogs in such a good manner,you all must be the Australia's answer to Caesar Milan. Can't wait to see you all on TV with your new shows. Even Caesar Milan recognizes some dogs as being RED ZONE cases that require special rehabilitation at his dog centre.

Now do you think, the average dog owner has the ability to fix red zone cases, I really don't think so. :laugh:

and I don't think I've seen a show where he's had to rehabilitate a little fluffy as a RED ZONE CASE?

Correct me if I'm wrong

If you know so much about Cesar Millan and his work, then you would know about Nu Nu the little chihuaha. A RED ZONE case. Don't believe me, go to his website and search for Nu Nu, she died this year of old age.

If people have a red zone dog, they should seek PROFESSIONAL help.

It amazes me that you even know about Cesar Millan as you have only whinged about Bull breeds and how bad they are, considering he's an ambassador for the big bad Pit Bull :D

[Roguedog]

you guys that are ever so good at controlling your dogs in such a good manner,you all must be the Australia's answer to Caesar Milan. Can't wait to see you all on TV with your new shows. Even Caesar Milan recognizes some dogs as being RED ZONE cases that require special rehabilitation at his dog centre.

Now do you think, the average dog owner has the ability to fix red zone cases, I really don't think so. :laugh:

and I don't think I've seen a show where he's had to rehabilitate a little fluffy as a RED ZONE CASE?

Correct me if I'm wrong

yep, yet again you are wrong, if you actually watched his shows you would see he has worked with many red zone fluffys.... those bull breed dogs he has worked with that are red zone were made that way by their owners, if you actually watched the show he explains where they went wrong every time... no the average owner doesnt have the ability to fix a red zone case, but they sure have the ability to bring the dog up right in the first place, many choose not to, is that the dogs fault? (or the breeds fault?)

[Roguedog]

give me a poodle and ill show you how easy it would be to turn it red zone without physically abusing it....

[aussielover]

Mum to Emma

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

Yes, he is a fool. He has failed to provide the dog with adequate leadership, which is why it " prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. " And even though it behaves so he doesn't have enough smarts to have the dog euthanased, now that he has ruined it, and made it dangerous. And he could have just as easily done the same to any and every breed.

Peeps, we are wasting our time with these people. They believe whatever garbage they read in the newspapers and see on TV, are too lazy and uninterested to check the veracity for themselves, and sufficiently bog ignorant to continually refute all evidence and stats presented to them, preferring instead to cling to their beliefs.

Why bother?

well said!

[Puppoochi]

fluffy enough?

I wish I could see it, however I'm in a bad spot (mobile modem) even though I'm only 5km out of Melbourne.

I watch Caesar all the time and I don't recall him ever having a little fluffy as what he refers to as a red zone case that he has to take to his dog psychology centre. Could you please describe the story to me.

[Puppoochi]

give me a poodle and ill show you how easy it would be to turn it red zone without physically abusing it....

What does that tell me about you?

[Cosmolo]

There have been plenty- he did a whole show on pint size red zone cases.

[Puppoochi]

you guys that are ever so good at controlling your dogs in such a good manner,you all must be the Australia's answer to Caesar Milan. Can't wait to see you all on TV with your new shows. Even Caesar Milan recognizes some dogs as being RED ZONE cases that require special rehabilitation at his dog centre.

Now do you think, the average dog owner has the ability to fix red zone cases, I really don't think so. :) :D

and I don't think I've seen a show where he's had to rehabilitate a little fluffy as a RED ZONE CASE?

Correct me if I'm wrong

yep, yet again you are wrong, if you actually watched his shows you would see he has worked with many red zone fluffys.... those bull breed dogs he has worked with that are red zone were made that way by their owners, if you actually watched the show he explains where they went wrong every time... no the average owner doesnt have the ability to fix a red zone case, but they sure have the ability to bring the dog up right in the first place, many choose not to, is that the dogs fault? (or the breeds fault?)

Red Zone cases are those which he takes with him to his Dog Psychology Centre for special rehabilitation

[JudgingTheDeed]

Hi Poodiful1. Im not going to sit here and 'Bully' you. But I would like to try and change your opinion on Bull breeds. Yes I do own an APBT. I am also a member of another forum where a member was worried that his dog was displaying signs of human aggression, he had no idea why because he has adopted her from a shelter. Im not going to try and 'ram' the deed not breed thing down your throat but I am going to copy and paste my reply to the thread from the other forum. Please take the time to read it and come to your own conclusion as to why my dog WAS the way she was.

I have been in a SIMILAR situation. My dog Bailey was badly abused by my ex boyfriend. When I left him in february this year, she was fear aggressive towards most people, especially men. It was to the extent that I couldn't let my friends in my car or go through a drive-thru bottle-o because she growl, snap and smash her face into the windows to get at people outside.

I also couldn't answer my front door because she would nearly break it down trying to get at people. She was the complete opposite when outside of her 'safe zones', like walking for example...if approached by someone in the street she would cower and hide behind me growling. If I moved, she moved with me always in a cower and behind me.

It has taken a long time and she is still not perfect, she will ALWAYS be a working progress. You need to realise that your dog may well be the same.

I have since changed cars. I own a wagon with a cage barrier so that I can put her in the back and she no longer has control of who gets in my car. EVERY time a friend got in, they treated her. When she growls initially I tell her "good girl, now enough". I never praised her for growling or said things like "it's ok, don't be scared" etc etc. Doing this will only make things worse, to a dog this is praise or attention for the bad behaviour. I have now stopped getting them to treat her and she gets lots of praise and pats instead. She still has a little growl and looks at me for my reaction if someone approaches the car, as long as I tell her "good girl, now enough" she relaxes, the tail goes an hundred miles an hour and the growling ceases.

None of my friends or family come to my house without letting me know prior. This way I can put Bailey in the crate near the front door, let them in, they treat her. I wait 10 minutes for her to settle then she is released from her crate. If someone knocks unexpectedly there is a sign on the front door explaining that I need to crate my dog first, they need to be patient.

We have gotten to the stage now where she knows the sound of particular peoples cars. She doesnt need to be crated for these people as she is already calm and ready to greet them appropriately.

When visitors are over she is NOT allowed to hide under things. Not allowed under the table or under the foot part of the recliner lounge when it is up. She is very much a 'safe zone' dog and thinks these little 'hidey holes' are HER space. She will growl at people if they intrude etc. Therefore she is not allowed. FULL STOP. My bedroom door is always open so she has the option to get to her bed if she has had enough of visitors.

When it comes to walking...that took the longest! Firstly I had to practice with friends going up and down the street. They would approach us, get down on their knee's side on the Bailey and offer a treat, whilst making kissing noises. This took a long time but she eventually learnt that I was in control NOT her and I wasn't going to let anyone hurt her. She can now approach people and be approached without cowering.

I muzzled her for walks and took a bag of treats with me. If people would be walking towards us etc I would quickly explain the situation and ask them to give her a small treat and a pat. MOST people were happy to oblige. She no longer walks with a muzzle, however she is NEVER let off lead. She also no longer growls or cowers when walking by people or being approached in the street.

We are now working on her reactions to children. put simply....they scare her and her reaction is not good. She is NEVER left with children alone or let off lead while around children. This is also a working progress.

We also attend a weekly dog obedience school.

I guess what I am trying to say is this....

This is MY experience, a continuing one that will continue until the day Bailey passes. Until that day she is never left with anyone that doesn't fully understand her body language, reactions and feelings towards certain situations. She is a full time job, a work in progress. She is a huge responsibility. However this does not mean I love her any less. I had person after person tell me I should have her put to sleep because of her reactions. I couldn't bring myself to do this....the dog she is isn't her fault she was made this way by a pathetic man that felt the need to beat on my dog because of my love for her...nothing more.

My point is, you need to fully understand the triggers etc to your dogs behaviour. You need to be completely in sync with her body language and what it is she is trying to tell you. You may very well need professional help just to figure this out.

She may well continue to be a work in progress just like Bailey. She WILL be a huge responsibility.

I wish you the best of luck with your experience. I do hope you take this on and go about it the right way.

Put so simply but beautifully by another member:

"You place yourself at a liability risk, your friends and family may not exactly smile when they find out you have been struggling with this, and please recall that every negative incident involving our breed, or its mixes, further strengthens peoples misconceptions that the breed is bad and dangerous."

So I suppose in your opinion Bailey would be classed as a 'RED ZONE' case and that I as an average dog owner would be unable to 'fix' her. Also you may be disturbed to know I am only 22 years old, which many would class as inexperienced. Well I beg to differ. I probably know more about 'pit bulls', BSL and all the 'bells and whistles' than you do Poodiful1. However saying this Bailey is my learning curve, Il never know it all as she teaches me new things every day.

Oh and also if your ever in S.A. and would like the chance to meet one of these 'dangerous dogs' Im sure Bailey and I could oblige, then you could meet a real 'dangerous' cuddle bum.

Im NOT a dickhead owner and Bailey is not my dog because I want her as an ego extension, which seems to be the 'cool thing' these days. She came to me under the saddest circumstances. She is probably 90% better than she was at the start of this year BUT that wasn't in here blood or genes or whatever. She was made that way by a poor excuse of a human being. SIMPLE.

[memphis09]

i have also seen quite a few ceaser milan episodes with nasty little dogs including one where the lady who called him in to help owned a pitbull rescue and had rescued a little black chi that was the most savage dog in the place not only where all the people there scared of it so were all the BIG NASTY PITBULLS.im also pretty sure he dide a whole episode on savage chi/little dogs

[TessiesTracey]

http://www.cesarsway.com/dogwhisperer/epis...son-5-episode-8

I think this is the episode people may be referring to.

Coco is the name of the 'red zone' Chi that was rehabilitated (and in fact now lives with) Cesar at the centre.

[Adza]

you guys that are ever so good at controlling your dogs in such a good manner,you all must be the Australia's answer to Caesar Milan. Can't wait to see you all on TV with your new shows. Even Caesar Milan recognizes some dogs as being RED ZONE cases that require special rehabilitation at his dog centre.

Now do you think, the average dog owner has the ability to fix red zone cases, I really don't think so. :) :D

and I don't think I've seen a show where he's had to rehabilitate a little fluffy as a RED ZONE CASE?

Correct me if I'm wrong

If you know so much about Cesar Millan and his work, then you would know about Nu Nu the little chihuaha. A RED ZONE case. Don't believe me, go to his website and search for Nu Nu, she died this year of old age.

If people have a red zone dog, they should seek PROFESSIONAL help.

It amazes me that you even know about Cesar Millan as you have only whinged about Bull breeds and how bad they are, considering he's an ambassador for the big bad Pit Bull

I watch every episode of Cesar, and have to agree, and also add that I see every kind of dog in this show big or small so that to me confirms that it's all types of dogs not particular breeds. At least Cesar doesn't go along with the media and all the journo's in presenting only particular breeds, if anything he tells you it can be ANY dog and that show proves it to me.

Edited September 20, 2010 by adza_baby