Youngster Mauled In Dog Attack

[malsrock]

Poodiful you need a serious wake up call...

Im almost certain it was a toy poodle and a Maltese X that caused the death of a new born in the Uk a few years ago when the pair smothered the sleeping child in his cot! That is pretty um FATAL.

Im not even going to dignify the rest with reply.

Here say means nothing to me I'm sorry,

And yet, by your posts, you expect people to agree with you when you are offering only hearsay?

How about proof?

Incidentally, poodle x maltese was responsible for a fatal attack in the UK as I recall, and poodles have been implicated in fatal attacks in the USA - as have most other breeds.

malsrock

I don't buy the excuse that the dogs featured in maullings were lovely dogs that just snapped and I have know a couple over the years who were genetically aggressive mongrels by nature with a history of aggression and fighting drive and the owners know that. Dog's like that IMHO shouldn't not be so readily available to the general public who don't have the ability or inclination to train, handle and look after them properly.

Malsrock - if you check the reasons for attacks, there are NO "dogs like that" - although what you are saying is totally correct. Attacks are perpetrated by dogs owned by people who are uncaring, or unaware. Hence "deed, not breed". Chained dogs are over represented in attack stats. Some attacks are caused by the lunacy of people, or in other attacks, by sheer unawareness.

Dogs never "turn" - there is a reason for every attack. Some reasons are more obscure than others, but in every case, the owner was not aware of the trigger, or that it had been pulled. Often dogs which are cited as "family" dogs are in fact, resident dogs.

Until we rid ourselves of the notion that pitbulls and/or bull breeds exclusively kill people, we will never acknowdge that all breeds of DOGS kill people. No breed, just dogs.

Hi Jed,

My word there are "dogs like that" born with genetic aggression and I owned one for 15 years. I had a Flat Coated Retriever prior to that and she was a lovely placid friendly dog. The BYB GSD I purchased next at 4 months old raised exactly the same way with love and affection just the same began to lunge at and bite strangers all of a sudden By the time he was 18 months old, he wanted bite to everyone and everything that didn't belong in our family and friend base and I couldn't handle him at all. In the end we trained him and made a good dog out of him although you could never let strangers pat him or trust him with kids, but he was well controlled and managed.

I didn't make him like that, he was born with a high level of sharpness and civil aggression and security people used to drool over him, but I can tell you that "nothing" is more difficult and taxing than handling and training a genetically aggressive dog, and unless someone has owned one, they really shouldn't be commenting about it because faced with living with a dog like that and the liability potential, most would seriously poop their pants and get rid of it one way or the other ;)

Fiona

Edited September 17, 2010 by malsrock

[Mum to Emma]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

[Staffygirl88]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A DANGEROUS BREED!!!! FFS get a life! You can't single out certain breeds because of what their purpose is, Rottweilers are working dogs, they need to be mentally and physically challenged EVERY day and when that doesn't happen, yes the dog will likely become aggressive. But it is not just in the breed that's a load of rubbish. That's like saying the child of two hardened criminals will grow up to be a hardened criminal. Obviously, dogs that bite are not balanced and happy dogs, SOMETHING is wrong for them to react that way. They don't just decide they're going to be nasty because they feel like it, if the owner (the Pack Leader!) obviously is not in control when a dog attacks. It doesn't matter what breed. Breed is just the outfit that the dog is wearing. They may be better at certain things then other breeds, but that does NOT define their temperament and character.

[Staffygirl88]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

[Roguedog]

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

[Allerzeit]

but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

From the rottweiler breed standard section on temperament:

Behaviour and character. Being good natured, placid in basic disposition and fond of children, he is very devoted, obedient, biddable and eager to work. His appearance is natural and rustic, his behaviour self assured, steady and fearless. He reacts to his surroundings with great alertness.

That is the CORRECT rottweiler temperament.

Yes, he is self assured and fearless, and yes he will naturally guard his property and family, but he is also good natured, placid in basic disposition, fond of children, very devoted, obedient, biddable, eager to work, and steady in temperament.

A rottweiler with a correct temperament IS be a "sociable breed" with a "bullet proof temperament" - to quote your terminology. A rottweiler which is more likely "to react aggressively in stressful situations" - again to quote you - is not a rottweiler with a correct temperament.

[Crisovar]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

You are not describing a Rottie with correct, sound Rottie temperament. A good Rottie, just like a good GSD or Dobe will fit into family and society just fine.

[aussielover]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

You are judging a breed from your experience (not even first hand) of ONE dog???

I agree with malsrock, there are some INDIVIDUALS in ANY breed or xbreed that are just born inherently aggressive. This is evident from a young age and may be caused by a neurological disorder or very poor breeding.

However, these dogs are extremely rare.

The bolded statement, in my opinion is a dangerous and misguided one. Ive seen more aggressive labradors and golden retrievers than I have aggressive Rotties, GSDs, Dobes, and "bull breeds"

I think part of the reason is that people assume labs and goldens are placid obedient dogs that don't require any training becuase they are assumed to have as you have described "a bulletproof temperament" and are "sociable".

NO breed has a bulletprof temperament!!! ANY good dog can be ruined by a bad owner.

These traits come from proper socialisation and adequate exercise, training and mental stimulation.

This sort of talk is making me mad...

Edited September 18, 2010 by aussielover

[grumpette]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

The first correction here is that the Rottweiler IS NOT A FIGHTING BREED. The Rottweiler has a long history of herding, starting as far back as driving the food supply of the Roman Legions across the Alps. Later, in Germany, they were known as the Butcher's dog, driving cattle to market. Many Rottweilers are now herding sheep, cattle and ducks in Victoria and doing extremely well at it, my young boy included who has 2 herding titles. Herding is a stressful situation.

Secondly my old girl visited primary schools for four years teaching children how to behave around dogs. You could not get a much greater urban environmental stressor, yet she behaved beautifully just as the standard requires "Being good natured, placid in basic disposition and fond of children, she is very devoted, obedient, biddable and eager to work".

It is extremely irresponsible to label a whole breed due to the characteristics exhibited by a few. As you have stated "every Rottweiler is different" just the same as every dog owner is different. We should be encouraging responsible ownership to ensure ALL DOGS are sociable with bullet proof temperaments.

[Jed]

Poodiful you need a serious wake up call...

Im almost certain it was a toy poodle and a Maltese X that caused the death of a new born in the Uk a few years ago when the pair smothered the sleeping child in his cot! That is pretty um FATAL.

Im not even going to dignify the rest with reply.

Here say means nothing to me I'm sorry,

And yet, by your posts, you expect people to agree with you when you are offering only hearsay?

How about proof?

Incidentally, poodle x maltese was responsible for a fatal attack in the UK as I recall, and poodles have been implicated in fatal attacks in the USA - as have most other breeds.

malsrock

I don't buy the excuse that the dogs featured in maullings were lovely dogs that just snapped and I have know a couple over the years who were genetically aggressive mongrels by nature with a history of aggression and fighting drive and the owners know that. Dog's like that IMHO shouldn't not be so readily available to the general public who don't have the ability or inclination to train, handle and look after them properly.

Malsrock - if you check the reasons for attacks, there are NO "dogs like that" - although what you are saying is totally correct. Attacks are perpetrated by dogs owned by people who are uncaring, or unaware. Hence "deed, not breed". Chained dogs are over represented in attack stats. Some attacks are caused by the lunacy of people, or in other attacks, by sheer unawareness.

Dogs never "turn" - there is a reason for every attack. Some reasons are more obscure than others, but in every case, the owner was not aware of the trigger, or that it had been pulled. Often dogs which are cited as "family" dogs are in fact, resident dogs.

Until we rid ourselves of the notion that pitbulls and/or bull breeds exclusively kill people, we will never acknowdge that all breeds of DOGS kill people. No breed, just dogs.

Hi Jed,

My word there are "dogs like that" born with genetic aggression and I owned one for 15 years. I had a Flat Coated Retriever prior to that and she was a lovely placid friendly dog. The BYB GSD I purchased next at 4 months old raised exactly the same way with love and affection just the same began to lunge at and bite strangers all of a sudden By the time he was 18 months old, he wanted bite to everyone and everything that didn't belong in our family and friend base and I couldn't handle him at all. In the end we trained him and made a good dog out of him although you could never let strangers pat him or trust him with kids, but he was well controlled and managed.

I didn't make him like that, he was born with a high level of sharpness and civil aggression and security people used to drool over him, but I can tell you that "nothing" is more difficult and taxing than handling and training a genetically aggressive dog, and unless someone has owned one, they really shouldn't be commenting about it because faced with living with a dog like that and the liability potential, most would seriously poop their pants and get rid of it one way or the other

Fiona

So the "dogs like that" are not an entire breed?

Some would disagree, but I wouldn't imagine that the media would ignore substantial attacks causing injury from breeds other than supposed Pitbull's

Please read the previous post which gives evidence that pit bull attacks are heavily publicised, whilst attacks by other breeds are ignored, and where the dog is not obviously one breed, cross bred dogs are named as pitbulls by the media.

There were 4 fatal attacks in the UK. One by a pitbull, and 3 by other breeds. The pitbull attack made the front page of the papers, TV for 6 nights, and 3 chat shows. The other 3 attacks were on P2 - once only.

Mum to Emma

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments

And exactly what breeds, with sociable, bullet proof temperaments would those be in your opinion Dogs which have never attacked? Dogs which rarely attack?

Interested to know.

[Rottigirl]

sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Ludicrous statements such as these only serve as authorisations for owners not to take any responsibility for training their dogs.

Edited to say ditto to Allerzeit, Aussielover and Grumpette. I can also attest to the fact that my rotti boy is very social and well liked for his laid back placid temperament and friendly disposition within my urban environment. I run my business from home and have people coming in and out all the time with out a problem. For a 'guarding/fighting dog' he's a dreadful let down :rofl:

Edited September 18, 2010 by Rottigirl

[mac'ella]

The original argument here wasnt directed at any type of breed but at the media for not getting their facts right, as usual, before printing articles that can be misleading,in this case blurting out the word bulldog which would have people thinking of british first,and then going on to bullmastiff cross.This is what they do for a wage.

I dont think there is any breed of dog you could say is 100% bombproof and anyone who thinks this is wrong.If owners take precautions the incidents would decrease but never cease as there will always be a dog somewhere which will do the unexpected and take the owners by surprise.

Dogs will associate a bad experience when young to a similar situation later in life eg my boxer who was attacked by a black and white border collie as a pup and was always defensive with them later,so I had to avoid them where possible and after a while he met others which were friendly and he was ok.

Its the same with owners some have no idea and will let their dogs charge over to a strange dog and then get very indignant when that dog goes defensive.The complacent owners are the more dangerous factor in a lot of occasions.

On one occasion I had my dog in a fenced oval when a woman opened the gate and let her standard poodle (no offence poodiful)run straight over,there was no problem he was so friendly and playfull, but if there had been would it have been the boxer's fault because he's a bully type breed? I've also had people turn up at the dog park with 3 poodles stating that 2 were ok but 1 wasn't, thats 66% in poodles favour, at least they were up front.

There are good and bad examples in any breed so I wouldn't bad mouth any of them.

[PaddyForever]

My God- I've just finished reading this entire thread and have a darn crook neck from sitting here so long! I've visited kinders and schools with an education program, and am always so disapointed to hear the same answers from many of the children to the same question.

"What kind of dog do you think MIGHT bite you?"

The answers are always the same. A dingo.(!) A wolf. A Doberman. A Rotweiller. A German Shepherd. A Cattle dog.

Occasionally, interspersed with these answers, I am lucky enough to get the right one.

"Any type of dog CAN bite."

We follow this answer by adding that any type of dog could bite "if you behave in an incorrect manner around them, or ignore the warning signals that a dog is giving you."

We have this program to try to educate children in dog body language and behaviours, but it is always clear that most children have a hard time reading a dog's body language. And here, someone may interject to say that some dogs do not give off any warning signs before an attack, but this is VERY RARELY true. It is just that some warnings are not as perceptible as others, and many children, and indeed, some adults, can not 'read' these warning signs. For example, many people think that a dog wagging it's tail MUST be friendly! Most of us who really know dogs, know that a dog's tail can wag when it is really agitated, and it can occur symultaneously with aggression.

As to what breeds are capable of aggression, the simple and true answer MUST be the one given. Of course, people should look at what a breed was bred for, and obviously, this has some correlation as to how they TEND to behave in certain situations. But EVERY dog needs training, and early socialisation, with people, other animals, and a variety of different situations and conditions. Good breeding, health and how they are raised from birth are all factors. It all comes down to the breeders/owners, NOT the breed itself. Anyone showing bias against any breed is just ignorant, and insulting to the responsible owners and breeders of said breed, who ARE out there. I own and have bred Golden Retrievers. I have owned Cavaliers, a Min Pin, and a Staffy. I also currently own a Gordon Setter, and a French Bulldog, although some may say that she is not a 'real' bulldog! Why, because of size? Small dogs can cause just as much harm as big dogs, often because people are complacent simply because of their size. Children are much shorter than we are. They usually bend or squat down to say hello. They usually place their face right in front of the dog, so that unfortunately, this is where they usually get bitten. It ALWAYS comes back to the human element. Children, and(quite obviously!)adults need to be educated, and vigilance is all important. Do not allow your dog, or child, into a situation which is threatening to either. Do not place a baby ABOVE a dog's own position, ie, on a bed, in front of a dog and walk away...! This is inviting the dog to assert his/her position in the pack. Never allow a dog that has not had exposure to children, to have unsupervised access to a child. Never allow your dog to greet strangers as they walk into your house, before you warn the dog of the presence of these 'intruders'! Really, it is all basic dog ownership 101. Have my way, and there would be a course for people to undertake, before being allowed to own any dog. But I doubt this will happen, too many irresponsible prospective owners will jump up and down, because they 'don't have time to attend a course!', even a day seminar or such, just as they don't seem to have time to educate their dog, or their children. Oh, and just to add, my Staffy and my Frenchie have temperaments every bit as stable and reliable as my Goldens/Gordon. If anything, they may be more inclined to defend me from a percieved attack though, but I am well aware of it. I have had a rescue Golden, who could have bitten me or anyone else who tried to touch her, quite easily, due to said fear. AND THE WAY SHE WAS RAISED AND TREATED PREVIOUSLY, BY PEOPLE.

[malsrock]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

Are you saying if this person with the Rotty had a friendly Golden Retriever the Goldie would act exactly as the Rotty does in this persons ownership...........CRAP :D

Fiona

[Mum to Emma]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

[Mum to Emma]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

The first correction here is that the Rottweiler IS NOT A FIGHTING BREED. The Rottweiler has a long history of herding, starting as far back as driving the food supply of the Roman Legions across the Alps. Later, in Germany, they were known as the Butcher's dog, driving cattle to market. Many Rottweilers are now herding sheep, cattle and ducks in Victoria and doing extremely well at it, my young boy included who has 2 herding titles. Herding is a stressful situation.

Secondly my old girl visited primary schools for four years teaching children how to behave around dogs. You could not get a much greater urban environmental stressor, yet she behaved beautifully just as the standard requires "Being good natured, placid in basic disposition and fond of children, she is very devoted, obedient, biddable and eager to work".

It is extremely irresponsible to label a whole breed due to the characteristics exhibited by a few. As you have stated "every Rottweiler is different" just the same as every dog owner is different. We should be encouraging responsible ownership to ensure ALL DOGS are sociable with bullet proof temperaments.

Perhaps you could explain why GSDs and Rotties are typically used as guard dogs instead of, say, St Bernards and border collies?

[Crisovar]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

The first correction here is that the Rottweiler IS NOT A FIGHTING BREED. The Rottweiler has a long history of herding, starting as far back as driving the food supply of the Roman Legions across the Alps. Later, in Germany, they were known as the Butcher's dog, driving cattle to market. Many Rottweilers are now herding sheep, cattle and ducks in Victoria and doing extremely well at it, my young boy included who has 2 herding titles. Herding is a stressful situation.

Secondly my old girl visited primary schools for four years teaching children how to behave around dogs. You could not get a much greater urban environmental stressor, yet she behaved beautifully just as the standard requires "Being good natured, placid in basic disposition and fond of children, she is very devoted, obedient, biddable and eager to work".

It is extremely irresponsible to label a whole breed due to the characteristics exhibited by a few. As you have stated "every Rottweiler is different" just the same as every dog owner is different. We should be encouraging responsible ownership to ensure ALL DOGS are sociable with bullet proof temperaments.

Perhaps you could explain why GSDs and Rotties are typically used as guard dogs instead of, say, St Bernards and border collies?

Trainability and strong sound nerve.

[Crisovar]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

Ones choice of employment and success in one field hardly makes someone a genius or capable of making sensible judgement in other matters. The Rottie sounds like it has issues, that is what makes it unsafe, not the breed it happens to be.

[Roguedog]

lol, the border collie next door is a better guard dog than my 4 bull breed dogs!!!

[Mum to Emma]

I have a relative (a police officer) who owns a rottweiller that has to be muzzled whenever someone outside the direct family comes into the house. The dog has been raised from a pup with love and affection, and has been subjected to the best training available through connections with the police force. However they have been told by trainers and a vet that the dog should be PTS as it is too dangerous. Her guarding instincts are too extreme. They refuse, despite the fact that their family includes an autistic child. My greatest fear is that one day someone in the family who has, perhaps, just been in contact with a strange dog or perhaps is simply wearing a new aftershave or perfume, startles the half-asleep dog and she attacks.

To deny that certain breeds have a propensity for particular behaviors (sighthounds chasing, for example), is incredibly naive. And in certain instances of that breed, those innate characterisics will be extreme. An obsessively chasing greyhound is more a nuisance/danger to itself. However an obsessively guarding/fighting GSD is a danger to any animal/human that crosses its path.

The guarding/fighting breeds such as rottweillers are far more likely AS A BREED to reactive aggressively in stressful situations. Yes, every rottweiller is different, and yes there will be examples of other breeds of dog that will react the same way (I'm sure someone on this forum will report on a bichon that savaged someone's grandmother!) but in an urban environment where the stresses are greater (on dogs and their owners!) we should be minimising risk by encouraging ownership of sociable breeds with bullet proof temperaments.

Obviously, your relative with the nasty Rottweiler has no control over his dog in the home. No dog of mine ever goes near the door when someone's there because that is MY door, MY house and I decide who comes and goes.

What a ridiculous statement. This is a dog that has been exposed to the best training available and is owned by an experienced rottweiller owner, having owned 2 in the past. It is simply unpredictable and because of this (coupled with it size and weight) is a danger to anyone it perceives as a threat - which is anyone outside it's direct family circle. She lets people in - but prowls the room in a threating crouching posture, emitting a low growl. They have been told to put the dog down but won't do it because they don't believe in putting healthy dogs to sleep, but can't rehome it because it would be a danger to anyone else. The owner is a senior police officer. He's no fool.

Ones choice of employment and success in one field hardly makes someone a genius or capable of making sensible judgement in other matters. The Rottie sounds like it has issues, that is what makes it unsafe, not the breed it happens to be.

It could be said that the dog is exhibiting extreme, exaggerated behaviour innate in the breed. She's herding and guarding her pack. All outsiders are threatening and she's warning them off with her posture and growling when they enter her territory.

So you think you know more about dogs than police dog handlers and trainers. Particularly in relation to a dog you've never met? But you are right in one respect. He hasn't used good judgment in this instance. The dog should be given the green dream as because of her size and bite capability, she is dangerous . She lives in a constant state of aggression/anxiety. Such a situtation benefits no one - neither the owners nor the dog.