Youngster Mauled In Dog Attack

[Jed]

Look at all the bullies ganging up on me, with their rhetoric or should I say bullsh!it, I'm sick of the bullies defending the bullies, but that's what bully owners are generally like and you are all not going to convince me or the general public that certain breeds are not more dangerous than others.

Interesting that those who don't agree with you are bullies.

You can continue to believe that certain breeds are more dangerous than others, so can the public, because they have been brainwashed by the media over the past 10 years. However, I would have thought a dog owner and breeder would have been more rational and not been prepared to be brainwashed by trashy reports in the media. And would have understood dog behaviour a bit better than that.

While the public believes in the myth of the big bad pitbull, two things happen. Councils don't properly investigate dog attacks, so they continue, and rise in numbers, and governments, knowing they have successfully banned a breed for viciousness, also know they can ban other breeds for whatever reason in the future.

And until you, and the public believes THE FACTS, which are that fatal attacks have been perpetuated by St Bernards, GRs, Labradors, Irish Setters, Boxers, Fox Terriers, Huskies, Dacshunds, Akitas, GSD, Great Danes, Basenji, Pomeranian, Collies Doberman etc etc etc, not only pit bulls and bull breeds, nothing will be done to address the many causes of fatal dog attacks.

[Puppoochi]

Look at all the bullies ganging up on me, with their rhetoric or should I say bullsh!it, I'm sick of the bullies defending the bullies, but that's what bully owners are generally like and you are all not going to convince me or the general public that certain breeds are not more dangerous than others.

Please explain how me disagreeing with your statements is now "bullying". How tiresome that accusation is becoming on this forum when people seek to distance themselves from their failing arguments.

I would remind you I'm not the one who suggested that another poster's vocabulary was lacking. Personal attack anyone?

I can only recommend that you read the studies, read the bite stats and do your own homework. There isn't a case on record of breed specific legislation reducing the incidence of dog attacks in a community. I commend to you the study on the impact of owner education in reducing attacks in Calgary in Canada. There is plenty of hard evidence about that on the net. None of this is rhetoric. The evidence is there for all to see.

Perception is NOT reality when it comes to breeds and the danger they represent. I'm sorry but there is simply no evidence I can find to support the efficacy of breed bans. If you can come up with some, please post it.

I'm over it sorry. Like I said, you can't convince me that some breeds are not more dangerous than others. I'm so sick of hearing news stories of attacks and you people always going in defence mode with your " It's the breed not the deed" Sick to death of it.

[Souff]

And until you, and the public believes THE FACTS, which are that fatal attacks have been perpetuated by St Bernards, GRs, Labradors, Irish Setters, Boxers, Fox Terriers, Huskies, Dacshunds, Akitas, GSD, Great Danes, Basenji, Pomeranian, Collies Doberman etc etc etc, not only pit bulls and bull breeds, nothing will be done to address the many causes of fatal dog attacks.

Now now, Poms only remove FINGERS!!! But there was one that latched on to a Queensland policeman as I recall, after the copper chased and tackled the vicious Pom, rugby style

[Jed]

Look at all the bullies ganging up on me, with their rhetoric or should I say bullsh!it, I'm sick of the bullies defending the bullies, but that's what bully owners are generally like and you are all not going to convince me or the general public that certain breeds are not more dangerous than others.

Please explain how me disagreeing with your statements is now "bullying". How tiresome that accusation is becoming on this forum when people seek to distance themselves from their failing arguments.

I would remind you I'm not the one who suggested that another poster's vocabulary was lacking. Personal attack anyone?

I can only recommend that you read the studies, read the bite stats and do your own homework. There isn't a case on record of breed specific legislation reducing the incidence of dog attacks in a community. I commend to you the study on the impact of owner education in reducing attacks in Calgary in Canada. There is plenty of hard evidence about that on the net. None of this is rhetoric. The evidence is there for all to see.

Perception is NOT reality when it comes to breeds and the danger they represent. I'm sorry but there is simply no evidence I can find to support the efficacy of breed bans. If you can come up with some, please post it.

I'm over it sorry. Like I said, you can't convince me that some breeds are not more dangerous than others. I'm so sick of hearing news stories of attacks and you people always going in defence mode with your " It's the breed not the deed" Sick to death of it.

Shame really, I hope you are more open to new and different ideas in your breeding endeavours :D

[poodlefan]

Look at all the bullies ganging up on me, with their rhetoric or should I say bullsh!it, I'm sick of the bullies defending the bullies, but that's what bully owners are generally like and you are all not going to convince me or the general public that certain breeds are not more dangerous than others.

Please explain how me disagreeing with your statements is now "bullying". How tiresome that accusation is becoming on this forum when people seek to distance themselves from their failing arguments. :D

I would remind you I'm not the one who suggested that another poster's vocabulary was lacking. Personal attack anyone?

I can only recommend that you read the studies, read the bite stats and do your own homework. There isn't a case on record of breed specific legislation reducing the incidence of dog attacks in a community. I commend to you the study on the impact of owner education in reducing attacks in Calgary in Canada. There is plenty of hard evidence about that on the net. None of this is rhetoric. The evidence is there for all to see.

Perception is NOT reality when it comes to breeds and the danger they represent. I'm sorry but there is simply no evidence I can find to support the efficacy of breed bans. If you can come up with some, please post it.

I'm over it sorry. Like I said, you can't convince me that some breeds are not more dangerous than others. I'm so sick of hearing news stories of attacks and you people always going in defence mode with your " It's the breed not the deed" Sick to death of it.

Fine. Don't listen to me. Let Google be your friend and do your own research. That's how I came to hold the position I do. ETA: Here's a linky that does a lovely comparison of a BSL vs educative approach to dog attacks. It includes the Calgary model.

I argue about this issue because the media beat up that some breeds are inherently dangerous leads families to conclude that some breeds are inherently safe. That latter conclusion leads to maimed children and dead dogs. Sue me for giving a damn.

Edited September 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[Puppoochi]

Look at all the bullies ganging up on me, with their rhetoric or should I say bullsh!it, I'm sick of the bullies defending the bullies, but that's what bully owners are generally like and you are all not going to convince me or the general public that certain breeds are not more dangerous than others.

Please explain how me disagreeing with your statements is now "bullying". How tiresome that accusation is becoming on this forum when people seek to distance themselves from their failing arguments. :D

I would remind you I'm not the one who suggested that another poster's vocabulary was lacking. Personal attack anyone?

I can only recommend that you read the studies, read the bite stats and do your own homework. There isn't a case on record of breed specific legislation reducing the incidence of dog attacks in a community. I commend to you the study on the impact of owner education in reducing attacks in Calgary in Canada. There is plenty of hard evidence about that on the net. None of this is rhetoric. The evidence is there for all to see.

Perception is NOT reality when it comes to breeds and the danger they represent. I'm sorry but there is simply no evidence I can find to support the efficacy of breed bans. If you can come up with some, please post it.

I'm over it sorry. Like I said, you can't convince me that some breeds are not more dangerous than others. I'm so sick of hearing news stories of attacks and you people always going in defence mode with your " It's the breed not the deed" Sick to death of it.

Shame really, I hope you are more open to new and different ideas in your breeding endeavours :D

No I won't be crossing my toy poodle with a pitbull :D ;)

[aussielover]

I'm talking about dogs that were bred for guarding, protecting and fighting. The ones that are always in the NEWS.

Then breeds like rotties, GSDs, dobes, LGDs such as maremmas would feautre in the news more often wouldn't they?

Just so you know, dog fighting breeds were actually selected for LOW human aggression as they had to be pulled out of fights and handled a lot when they were patched up.

you people always going in defence mode with your " It's the breed not the deed" Sick to death of it.

erm i think you'll find its other way way- deed not breed.

Breed not deed is YOUR opinion

Edited September 15, 2010 by aussielover

[megan_]

While I don't agree with the sentiment in poodiful's posts (and lumping a whole lot of dogs together) I think it is very obvious that some breeds have the potential to harm more than others and that more careful management is required?

I have made a million mistakes with my boy, but he isn't from a breed(s) known for being dominant or guarding. He is easy going, non-confrontational and is great with people (pretty neurtal to those he doesn't know but not an ounce of aggression toward them). If he had been another dominant, powerful breed, the end result of my naivety (sp) could have been very different.

People like different breeds because they are...different. If all breeds are equal we wouldn't have breed enthusiasts.

[poodlefan]

I'm talking about dogs that were bred for guarding, protecting and fighting. The ones that are always in the NEWS.

Then breeds like rotties, GSDs, dobes, LGDs such as maremmas would feautre in the news more often wouldn't they?

Just so you know, dog fighting breeds were actually selected for LOW human aggression as they had to be pulled out of fights and handled a lot when they were patched up.

I have a friend who's an animal behaviorist who says LGDs like Mareemas have about the highest bite threshold its possible to breed into a dog.

Edited September 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

While I don't agree with the sentiment in poodiful's posts (and lumping a whole lot of dogs together) I think it is very obvious that some breeds have the potential to harm more than others and that more careful management is required?

Yes, that's a given. However its size and strength that determine only how potentially harmful a dog can be. Based on those facts, no Irish Wolfhound would ever leave its yard unmuzzled. And yet there is a dog that's got a very low level of recorded aggression.

Potential needs environment and experience to be realised. That's where the human factors come in.

Edited September 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[aussielover]

I'm talking about dogs that were bred for guarding, protecting and fighting. The ones that are always in the NEWS.

Then breeds like rotties, GSDs, dobes, LGDs such as maremmas would feautre in the news more often wouldn't they?

Just so you know, dog fighting breeds were actually selected for LOW human aggression as they had to be pulled out of fights and handled a lot when they were patched up.

I have a friend who's an animal behaviorist who says LSGs like Mareemas have about the highest bite threshold its possible to breed into a dog.

Sorry what does that mean

[SpotTheDog]

Just on the whole 'the media wouldn't simply NOT report an attack by a non-bull breed dog would they', funny story.

There's a woman in the west of Ireland who runs a bull breed rescue. Her name is Sarah Gunther. Years ago, in her own words, she was badly mauled by a dog in her care. She was contacted by a journalist who was desperate for the story - you can imagine, a real 'bites the hand that feeds it' headline.

The dog that attacked her was a labrador.

The story never ran.

[poodlefan]

I'm talking about dogs that were bred for guarding, protecting and fighting. The ones that are always in the NEWS.

Then breeds like rotties, GSDs, dobes, LGDs such as maremmas would feautre in the news more often wouldn't they?

Just so you know, dog fighting breeds were actually selected for LOW human aggression as they had to be pulled out of fights and handled a lot when they were patched up.

I have a friend who's an animal behaviorist who says LSGs like Mareemas have about the highest bite threshold its possible to breed into a dog.

Sorry what does that mean

A dog's bite threshold is the point at which it can be triggered to bite. It takes a hell of a lot to get an LGD to bite.. but when they do (hopefully Lilli will confirm) my understanding is that they don't have much bite inhibition (ie they bite HARD)

Contrast this with a gundog that has a low bite threshold (will mouth readily) but tends to have very high bite inhibition (they don't tend to bite hard).

Now enter a dickhead puppy farmer who decides to cross these breeds. One potential result is a pup with a very low bite inhibiton (hard biter) and a very low bite threshold (bites readily). Potential problems anyone?

Edited September 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[Bullbreedlover]

People own large breed dogs for alot of reasons. For many of the joe public out there they are a status symbol for them. No ifs, no buts.

In saying that I also know of hard core bikers who own very small breeds.

Many people have no idea in the fact that dogs are dogs. Just like children are children. Just like some adults and not adults They need supervision.

They need to learn and be taught.

[aussielover]

I'm talking about dogs that were bred for guarding, protecting and fighting. The ones that are always in the NEWS.

Then breeds like rotties, GSDs, dobes, LGDs such as maremmas would feautre in the news more often wouldn't they?

Just so you know, dog fighting breeds were actually selected for LOW human aggression as they had to be pulled out of fights and handled a lot when they were patched up.

I have a friend who's an animal behaviorist who says LSGs like Mareemas have about the highest bite threshold its possible to breed into a dog.

Sorry what does that mean

A dog's bite threshold is the point at which it can be triggered to bite. It takes a hell of a lot to get an LGD to bite.. but when they do (hopefully Lilli will confirm) my understanding is that they don't have much bite inhibition (ie they bite HARD)

Contrast this with a gundog that has a low bite threshold (will mouth readily) but tends to have very high bite inhibition (they don't tend to bite hard).

Now enter a dickhead puppy farmer who decides to cross these breeds. One potential result is a pup with a very low bite inhibiton (hard biter) and a very low bite threshold (bites readily). Potential problems anyone?

Oh god, don't give them any ideas....

Thanks for the explanation :D

[poodlefan]

Oh god, don't give them any ideas....

Thanks for the explanation :D

Too late. It's been done more than once and behaviourists are dealing with the inevitable outcome. The pup I know of was a resource guarder with a low bite threshold and low bite inhibition in a family of young children. Its' littermate is with an older family. It displays high levels of territorial aggression. Who'd have thought that might happen.

Edited September 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[Lucy's mama]

Yep, marremma cross golden seems very popular atm. What is wrong with having a golden if you want a golden or a maremma if you want a maremma???

[poodlefan]

Yep, marremma cross golden seems very popular atm. What is wrong with having a golden if you want a golden or a maremma if you want a maremma???

No "hybrid vigour"

[Jed]

From someone who had a maremma - yep, slow to bite but could, and would bite very very hard. Friend's maremma killed foxes with one bite.

Bite force of various animals has been measured (by Brady Barr for a National Geographic program, and others) . Bite force depends on the size/weight of the animal

Hyena 1000 lbs

Lion 691 lbs

Shark 661

Rottweiler 328

Pitbull 235

Adult Human 170

Labrador 125

Bite threshhold not to be confused with bite force

And owning a GR x Maremma would be, imho, a recipe for total disaster. Ditto BC X maremma. The idiots who breed them have NFI what they are doing and care less.

No potential pet owners who had any idea would buy such a potentially dangerous cross, but the people who do buy them do so because they trust the breeder/pet shop and because the pups are as cute as

[Quickasyoucan]

I watched a sad episode of one of those animal cop shows.

They rescued 4 fighting pitbulls from a wretched place where other souls had been clubbed to death and buried in the front yard for not winning their fights presumably.

The animal behaviourist at the shelter said the dogs were typical of the many fighting pitbulls she saw (who have not just been bred but trained god knows how for the job), she handled the dog all over quite forcefully on the tv and said a human could do anything to this dog, no problems there, the reason these dogs were sadly euthanased was their reaction to other dogs not people.

Of course there are rogue dogs of any breed but there is usually a large element of human input into making them human aggressive.

From memory, Karen Delise's book also has an interesting history of how the media has portrayed "dangerous breeds" over the centuries from the "blood thirsty bloodhound" through the collie, the GSD (who was apparently redeemed by Rin Tin Tin), dobermans, rottweilers and the latest victim pitbulls.

In America where the welfare shelters deal with pitbulls on a much greater scale and fighting ones at that I think you will find a great deal of sadness at how these dogs are treated.