Help With Barking Dog

[murphymoo]

I have a beautiful 14 month old GR called Murphy. Recently we have had some trouble with him barking over the side fence at our neighbour. This happens both when we are at home and at work. I'm pretty sure he has decided that he needs to guard our property for some reason. When he sees the neighbour on the street or in our front yard he doesn't bark and in fact is quite submissive (rolling over for tickles). Our neighbour is very sweet and hasn't complained, but yesterday he mentioned that the neighbour at the back was around while we were at work to discuss the barking problem. I haven't had a chance to speak to her yet, but clearly action is needed.

So far this is my action plan, but I would really appreciate any tips or suggestions on how to resolve this:

1. We are installing a new side fence that is the standard 1.8 metres high (the current fence is only about 1.4 metres high and pretty old and Murphy can see through gaps and see the neighbours head above it

2. We are going to take Murphy to obedience training, we did this about 6 months ago, but to be honest got a bit lazy and stopped going

3. We are trying to teach him the speak and quiet commands

I would really appreciate any ideas or tips on how to resolve this quickly, as I can understand how annoying it would be. Especially I'm not sure on what we should be doing when Murphy is barking when we're at home (i.e. how should we tell him to stop without reinforcing his behaviour)

Thanks in advance.

[poodlefan]

How much exercise does Murphy get on a daily basis?

I suggest you drop by your neighbour, tell them you're aware of the problem and ask them to keep a diary of when he is barking. That way they'll be able to tell you if anything you do improves the situation.

When my dogs bark and I am at home, I call them inside or away from the trigger.

Edited September 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[murphymoo]

Thanks that's a great idea. He gets a 20-30 minute run at the dog park every morning and also a 30 minute walk in the evenings. I thought that was enough given his age and large breed but perhaps we should be doing more. I didn't think it's boredom related as he does the barking when we're at home too.

[poodlefan]

Thanks that's a great idea. He gets a 20-30 minute run at the dog park every morning and also a 30 minute walk in the evenings. I thought that was enough given his age and large breed but perhaps we should be doing more. I didn't think it's boredom related as he does the barking when we're at home too.

Does he do any obedience training - exercising the brain is as important as exercising the body.

Is he allowed in the house?

Edited September 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[murphymoo]

We have done a little bit of obedience, to be honest not enough. We are going to enrol at a new club this Sunday and stick to it. He is allowed in the house all the time when we're at home (free access to both inside and outside), but is in the back garden when we're at work. He sleeps inside too. There has been fruit bats and possums in our back garden at night recently which he has run outside to bark at. I think we might be 'rewarding' his behaviour by calling him inside. I'm not sure whether we should be waiting until he is quiet and then calling him in.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Somtimes it can be simply an annoying habit started off by something as simple as spring... There may be no easy fix and if the barking goes on to long it can break down neighbour relations and some neighbours can take action.

It might be time to look at a Bark Deterent...

It is a good idea as PF said to speak to the neighbours, we supply a letter with our bark deterents now that you can reproduce and deliver to them if communications are strained.

[poodlefan]

We have done a little bit of obedience, to be honest not enough. We are going to enrol at a new club this Sunday and stick to it. He is allowed in the house all the time when we're at home (free access to both inside and outside), but is in the back garden when we're at work. He sleeps inside too. There has been fruit bats and possums in our back garden at night recently which he has run outside to bark at. I think we might be 'rewarding' his behaviour by calling him inside. I'm not sure whether we should be waiting until he is quiet and then calling him in.

Not if you want to keep your neighbours onside.

If he's normally inside then calling him in is no big reward.

There are aversive collars you can use that can be successful but I'd start with regular training and practice every day for 10 minutes.

[murphymoo]

Thanks for your help, It sounds like the training is the way to go at first. I guess if that doesn't work we'll try a citronella bark collar. I'm hoping the new fence will help too as he won't be able to see into our neighbour's yard as easily.

[corvus]

I've never had any success getting neighbours to keep a bark diary. Even the one that has caused us trouble flatly refused to write down any details when it happens. It's not that they don't want to help, they just don't want to be roped into something that requires any commitment or ongoing dealings with us. They just want the barking to stop.

Frankly, my boys just stay inside when we are out. They don't hear all the things that would normally set them off inside, or if they do they are more relaxed in the first place because they spend a lot of time indoors with us and it's their preferred place to be. They are happy and the neighbours are happy. I am quite happy for them to alert bark and didn't want to deter them from barking in general. More exercise and obedience training made no difference at all for us.

[poodlefan]

Corvus:

I've never had any success getting neighbours to keep a bark diary.

Once I explained why the information would help, the neighbour who complained about my dogs barking was happy to do it.

Thanks for your help, It sounds like the training is the way to go at first. I guess if that doesn't work we'll try a citronella bark collar. I'm hoping the new fence will help too as he won't be able to see into our neighbour's yard as easily.

A new fence certainly won't hurt.

ETA: If proximity to the fence is an issue in triggering barking, is it possible to partition the yard to keep him away from the offending fence lines?

Edited September 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[murphymoo]

: If proximity to the fence is an issue in triggering barking, is it possible to partition the yard to keep him away from the offending fence lines?

Unfortunately it's not really possible to do this as it's our whole side fence.

He listens out for the neighbours even when he's inside the house (when they put things in their bin etc) and sometimes does a low growl before running out and barking. We often close the door to keep him inside with us when we're at home so he doesn't bark and annoy them. I think we have been a bit too soft and not established ourselves as the leader. Hopefully the training/new fence combination will work.

Thanks for all your help!

[corvus]

Corvus:

I've never had any success getting neighbours to keep a bark diary.

Once I explained why the information would help, the neighbour who complained about my dogs barking was happy to do it.

Yeah, I did explain, and got some vague response about how they would write it down if it got really bad. It's not like they were home all the time themselves. Tried with the more friendly neighbours and they just didn't think it was necessary. Told us they would let us know if they were barking a lot. They seemed to think it was too much trouble for us to go to and were trying to tell us not to worry about it. It's always worth a shot, I just wouldn't expect cooperation.

To the OP, can I just suggest that barking at sounds on the territory boundaries is not IMO a sign that you've been too soft or not been strong leaders. A lot of dogs just do it. It's been bred into them. Way back when, everybody wanted a dog that would let them know if someone was approaching home. Or they wanted a dog that barked so they knew where the dog was. Erik is about the same age and has been recently improving his discriminatory abilities when it comes to what needs to be alerted about and what doesn't, but noises on the fenceline are a big deal, and so they should be IMO. He doesn't know if it's just one of the neighbours or some nefarious character trying to climb into our yard.

[murphymoo]

Erik is about the same age and has been recently improving his discriminatory abilities when it comes to what needs to be alerted about and what doesn't, but noises on the fenceline are a big deal, and so they should be IMO. He doesn't know if it's just one of the neighbours or some nefarious character trying to climb into our yard

Corvus - are there any training techniques you've used that have helped Erik learn to discriminate between the different types of noises? I like the fact that he warns us about possible intruders etc, it's just the day to day noises (my neighbour putting his rubbish out, gardening etc) that I would really like to discourage.

[cowanbree]

Dogs aren't stupid and are as capable as we are of knowing the difference between the neighbour making noise and stranger danger. Barking at neighbours is due to lack of training, I use a number of techniques to stop it. I start with training the command quiet. Every single time my dogs bark I go out and say quiet. if I am not immediately obeyed I either use a throw can to get their attention and praise them as soon as they obey or I crate them for 10 minutes until they settle down and will listen. For unwanted barking inside I use a water pistol, works very well.

Barking when you are not home is a lot more difficult to control but really your dog should not be barking when you are home. I accept barking when strangers enter the property, a bit of barking first thing in the morning and after work when they are first let out but other than that I don't allow barking. Neighbours won't tolerate it and if it has already got to the stage that neighbours are meeting with other neighbours over it you need to be very proactive

[murphymoo]

Thanks those training tips are really useful, we'll start using them straight away. Sorry if I'm really ignorant, but what is a 'throw can'? I don't think the issue is too out of hand yet so there is time to resolve it. The neighbour who complained (from the street behind) knocked on my next door neighbour's door after trying our door as we were at work. But yes we are definitely taking a proactive approach.

[cowanbree]

It is a can with stones in it and the lid taped shut. You throw it on the concrete or at a wall near the dog and they will startle. Use that brief quiet to say quiet and then praise him and bring him inside. Works really well but I wouldn't use it if your dog was of a nervous temperment

[Erny]

It is a can with stones in it and the lid taped shut. You throw it on the concrete or at a wall near the dog and they will startle. Use that brief quiet to say quiet and then praise him and bring him inside. Works really well but I wouldn't use it if your dog was of a nervous temperment

I hate this 'technique' and avoid it like the plague. It carries with it the very real risk of sensitisation to loud rattly noises and can create bigger problems for the dog, rather than solving them.

Sorry to be so blunt, Cowanbree - but I wouldn't touch this technique for this purpose, with a barge pole. It is very much a "Bark Busters" style technique, although that is NOT the reason I am saying I don't like it.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Erny

[cowanbree]

Fair enough, I have used it for years and found it works well even with the number number of dogs I have but it isn't for all dogs. I can't say I have ever had any issues with it but my breed is very prone to barking

[corvus]

Dogs aren't stupid and are as capable as we are of knowing the difference between the neighbour making noise and stranger danger.

Well, I don't know if it's the neighbour. I can't see them and if they are just banging around on the fence line making the plants on the fence rattle, well, could be anyone. Plus, our yard is adjacent to the lower end of the neighbour's yard. He's in his 90s and rarely goes down there. I don't think my dogs would hear it often enough to figure out who should be there and who shouldn't.

I don't know if I did anything to help Erik learn to discriminate better. I tried teaching him to come inside and lie on his bed for a treat after he barks at something. It works pretty well unless it's something he thinks is terribly important that I should be doing something about. I found the more aroused he was the more sensitive he was to sounds and the more he would run around barking at nothing much and the more I needed to call him in because he wasn't coming back on his own. I started giving him a play followed by a ten minute massage before I went to work in the home office for the day, and the effect was incredible. Problem practically solved right there on the spot. Door open all day and he slept through all the things that would normally get him up and barking. When we are up for lunch he might have a little bark here and there. He likes raw vegies, so when I'm cutting up vegies for my lunch I toss him bits when he's quiet. The barking is improving steadily. Maybe he just needed to be a bit more relaxed in general to discriminate? Or maybe it just coincided with him maturing. We have the odd setback. Yesterday he was all upset by some unusual construction noise in the neighbourhood and I had to go back to massages and some treats when he was relaxing on his bed. He was much harder to settle than he has been. Mostly he doesn't need his massages anymore. If he gets worked up about something unusual during the day I give him a quick, 30 second rub and he's usually all good after that.

No idea if that would help you. Erik sometimes needs help to relax and a lot of his quirky behaviour irons out when I take the time to help him. I've been teaching him a settle down cue that I use when I'm massaging him so it sets him up for calming down on his own. I haven't been as dedicated to that one as I should, but it's not bad all the same. It's not uncommon for him to relax and put his tail down with that alone if he's also on his bed. I think Karen Overall likes to pair relaxation work with a mat or bed so the dog associates them with each other. That way you can send them to the mat and they chill even if you don't have time to do some relaxation work with them.

[Erny]

Hi MurphyMoo.

I'm certainly not one that is against the use of anti-bark collar training - K9 Pro would be the first to confirm that .

But if the barking is specific - like to things such as the dropping items in the bin (as opposed to the presence of the neighbours), then it might do well to desensitise/habituate to the noise. For example, if his behaviour is not over the top, take him around to your neighbour's bin and drop some items in it. When/if he's ok with that (reward for calm) then ask your neighbour to do it, with you letting Murphy see what's happening. Do it a few times and aim to finish on a calm note. Sometimes it is a matter of noises that the dog doesn't understand - once understood, it can make a difference to the height of reactivity. Sometimes.

This might not be enough. But I have from time to time found that it has helped. Even if I am still proceeding to something such as an anti-bark collar.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Erny