Cavalier King Charles Spaniels Heart Problem

[shortstep]

I think this must be what they are using

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...=clnk&gl=au

Also has some good stats in inheritence seen in breedings

[Souff]

Souff probably needs a hit around the head or something, but I cant help thinking of all the other dog breeds out there (and many other animals for that matter) where it is a rarity to reach the age of 10.

Sure, identify and minimise any problems that we can, but I think there should always be a reality check to see if we are not trying to push water uphill and trying to achieve something that even good old Mother Nature cannot achieve.

Souff

[asal]

Souff probably needs a hit around the head or something, but I cant help thinking of all the other dog breeds out there (and many other animals for that matter) where it is a rarity to reach the age of 10.

Sure, identify and minimise any problems that we can, but I think there should always be a reality check to see if we are not trying to push water uphill and trying to achieve something that even good old Mother Nature cannot achieve.

Souff

why souf?

hush your mouth, its cavalier breeder bashing thread, didnt u know?

wheres the great dane one? is there one or have i missed it?

know a lady forked out 1500 to 3000 each for her three great danes and NOT ONE OF THEM SAW THEIR 6TH BIRTHDAY.

the one she thought had made it when she went to wish her happy birthaday that morning, had died in her sleep.

well she did make it to the day before her birthday, the other two didnt

umm shouldnt forget my neighbour, 1300 and 1800 for his top quality german shepherds, had to be put down they were so displastic couldnt walk by 12 months? maybe he was the bad one not shelling out the thousands for the ops?

ho n my lab friend, 7 dogs and only one sound one at 6 years?

then to her horror one of her pups was found to be displastic.

funnlily none of the 6 breeders gave any refunds or compensation as is expected nowdays and all were registered breeders, n that applies to the great danes and the german sheps?

although my lab friend shelled till it hurt to pay the vet bills for that pup. the parents were xrayed n excellent scores so she gave up

Edited September 14, 2010 by asal

[Souff]

ASAL

Yes, Great Danes and many other breeds, and it is a pity that some of the Cavvy bashers don't find something more useful to do

Souff

[Steve]

Question - How many tall old men do you see?

[asal]

Question - How many tall old men do you see?

you havnt met les ellery eh?

:) :D

[asal]

ummm u do have a point dont u steve?

hey i found a photo of les at this link, think hes 82 now and that mare is about 14.2 i think, watching him ride mamaluke at sydney royal with his feet below the stallions knees was a hoot, the man could pace it with the man from snowy river though

http://www.splitterscreek.com/news%20archives%20d.htm

Edited September 14, 2010 by asal

[Souff]

Question - How many tall old men do you see?

Um, I know several who are over 80 and they have to stoop to shake hands with the shorties

[Jed]

I think this must be what they are using

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...=clnk&gl=au

Also has some good stats in inheritence seen in breedings

I can't find any references in there at all. Maybe it's me!

There are so many sites which disagree with each other, I am now at the stage where I want proof, numbers, and great details.

Suspicious?

And while we are discussing MVD - line breeding invariably comes into the equation. Here's a strongly line bred Cavalier, show winner, healthy and long lived. She has 5 lines to Eng Ch Homaranne Caption

http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/articles/craigowl.htm

ENGLISH CH. CRAIGOWL SILKIENCE

"Nellie" was born on the 7th January 1990 and is now in her 11th year. She was one of 5 puppies born to Craigowl Silk and Craigowl Chad and little did we know then what heights this very pretty puppy would reach. In the nest she was the most solidly marked but her lovely head type was so apparent, even when first born, that she continued to catch our attention. When she opened her eyes the expression got even sweeter. All the warmth, trust and gentleness of the Cavalier are locked into the eyes.

We had decided to mate "Silk" and "Chad" to capitalise on the splendid dogs they shared in their pedigrees. "Silk" was a very neatly made, feminine bitch and "Chad" had the eyes and strong driving rear that we wanted to reproduce. It worked! "Nellie" got the best of both worlds.

For me the crème de la crème in Blenheim dogs whose excellence has lived on through his descendants is English Ch Homaranne Caption. Not only a Champion in his own right (he won 13 CCs) but he also sired 16 Champion children. He was the top Cavalier stud dog in the UK for 7 consecutive years and very importantly lived to the ripe old age of 15. Caption was the sire of Ch Craigowl Hoodwink, Ch Craigowl Cashmere, Ch Homaranne Carson and Ch Homerbrent Bewitched so you can see just how important a part he has played in "Nellie`s" production.

She was slow to mature and did not win a major award until she was 1 year 11 months but less than a month later she hit the big time! She won her first CC at Crufts in January 1992. It was a great occasion. She then picked up a few Reserve CCs along the way and another CC in April 1993 and finally her crown in July 1993.

She was retired then to bring up a family. Mated to different dogs she continued to pass on the quality. Most of her children were male. Craigowl Dixon, Craigowl Crackerjack, Craigowl Neilson, all won well and are making their mark as useful sires in the UK, Germany and Sweden.

"Nellie" goes from strength to strength and wins Veteran classes on a regular basis. The photo shown here was taken just a few weeks away from her 11th birthday.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Jed

[sandgrubber]

If it's a dominant trait and invariably shows up by 7 yrs, I'd say you can breed it out by only breeding from pups whose sire and dam have lived to old age. No?

I fault not Cav breeders, but the pedigree registration system. Age of death needs to be recorded on pedigrees if you want to breed dogs that live to a healthy old age. It really irked me when I lost my first brood bitch to cancer and tried to take her off the records. The CAWA person behind the desk said, basically, "why bother . .. some people out there have hundreds of deceased dogs still on the books".

[Jed]

As the mode of inheritance for MVD is not known, it is nearly impossible to breed it out. Dogs with no sign of it have thrown pups with MVD. I don't thiink it is a dominant, and it doesnt always show up at 7. Obviously breeding from dogs which have murmurs pre-5 is a disaster, but unfortunately, by the time breeders find out the dog has MVD - maybe at 5 or 7 - it's finished breeding.

Sandgrubber, Asal said it before, and I'll say it again. With no tests to hand, the only way for breeders to acquire potentially healthy breeding stock, is, as you say, to invest in dogs with long lived ancestors who begat long lived and healthy pups. And cross their fingers. This doesn't guarantee anything though

And I want to talk to the breeders and owners of the dogs, so I don't care what is on the pedigrees. Sure, people can lie, but most don't. Having it on the pedigrees would be handy though.