Is There Anything I Could/should Do?

[Kaffy Magee]

I had a call on Saturday while I was in Sydney from one of my puppy people. They told me their puppy was lethargic and not eating. They had taken him to the vet on Friday and the vet said he was fine but put him on a course of antibiotics. He had had a carcass and vomited it up and the vet said it may have scratched the oesaphagus so hence the ABs. She also told him she wouldnt be feeding bones,blah blah blah.

So he rang me Saturday, I asked him a heap of questions, he was still drinking and other than having no energy and not eating, he was fine (no whimpering etc) I told them since I cant see him its hard for me to make any sort of judgement, if the vet thinks he is ok the only thing you can really do is keep an eye on him and see if he picks up unless they really think something is not right then take him back to the vet or different one.

I recieved a call this morning to say they took him to a vet yesterday morning. He had a wishbone caught in his oesophagus that had piercecd it in three places and they think, as it was so low, when they tried to remove it, it pierced his heart and he had a heart attack on the table.

I am devastated. I feel so so bad for them. Ive been crying all morning. I know it was just an unfortunate occurence, but I feel bad because I recommend a raw diet. Ive told them I and many others have fed raw for years, with no issues, and I will still continue to do so, but I really really feel so sorry for them.

I have a 4month old half sister here to their boy, which I have told them if they think they might be interested in her, not neccessarily now, but in the next few weeks they are welcome to her. I will hold on to her for them until they are ready. I didnt want to feel like I was being insensitive by offering her so soon to them (i did it as tactfully as I could). I have someone else interested in her but I wanted to give them the option before I committed to this other person.

I just feel really helpless, I wish I could do more. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Lyla]

I really feel for you, but it's nobody's fault. Unfortunately it is just one of those things, devastating as they can be.

I think you have done the best thing you can by offering a replacement pup, and I don't think it is insensitive of you. All you are doing is proving that you do care, and you are willing to try and help out the puppy owners in the only way you really can. Once someone has been to the vets, I think the responsibilty then lies with them, not the breeder. As a breeder you can only do so much with advice and support, the vet is the person who needed to fill in the gaps in this situation, especially as the pup had actually been seen by them.

I would still be recommending a raw diet, but maybe modify what type of raw until a certain age. I am not sure how old this pup was. Maybe recommend minces or necks until adult teeth are through, then introduce the carcasses.

I know nothing anything will say will make you feel better, be be assured, it is not your fault, and all us DOLers are thinking of you.

[ozwildflower]

I had a call on Saturday while I was in Sydney from one of my puppy people. They told me their puppy was lethargic and not eating. They had taken him to the vet on Friday and the vet said he was fine but put him on a course of antibiotics. He had had a carcass and vomited it up and the vet said it may have scratched the oesaphagus so hence the ABs. She also told him she wouldnt be feeding bones,blah blah blah.

So he rang me Saturday, I asked him a heap of questions, he was still drinking and other than having no energy and not eating, he was fine (no whimpering etc) I told them since I cant see him its hard for me to make any sort of judgement, if the vet thinks he is ok the only thing you can really do is keep an eye on him and see if he picks up unless they really think something is not right then take him back to the vet or different one.

I recieved a call this morning to say they took him to a vet yesterday morning. He had a wishbone caught in his oesophagus that had piercecd it in three places and they think, as it was so low, when they tried to remove it, it pierced his heart and he had a heart attack on the table.

I am devastated. I feel so so bad for them. Ive been crying all morning. I know it was just an unfortunate occurence, but I feel bad because I recommend a raw diet. Ive told them I and many others have fed raw for years, with no issues, and I will still continue to do so, but I really really feel so sorry for them.

I have a 4month old half sister here to their boy, which I have told them if they think they might be interested in her, not neccessarily now, but in the next few weeks they are welcome to her. I will hold on to her for them until they are ready. I didnt want to feel like I was being insensitive by offering her so soon to them (i did it as tactfully as I could). I have someone else interested in her but I wanted to give them the option before I committed to this other person.

I just feel really helpless, I wish I could do more. Does anyone have any suggestions?

What an awful thing to have happen - I feel like crying with you. Seems to me you are doing everything anyone could possibly expect or want and even more, as this was not your fault. Amazing the vets didn't pick up on it earlier.

Please don't think I am putting blame anywhere, because I'm really not. I was told to always remove the wishbone from carcass's before giving them to even the adult dogs. I boil the wishbones up for stock.

[Andisa]

I am so sorry to ready about your puppy - I have been raw feeding for many years and yes I know of a pup that died from choking on bones - but you know what - I know far more dogs that have died from bloat eating a kibble diet. Anything a dog puts in it's mouth has the potential to cause it to choke. You recommended a raw diet because you believe in it and I hope you don't change the way your feeding them because of this accident.

I think you have done as much as anyone can by offering a puppy to them, I feel so sorry for all concerned. If they are not ready for another pup straight away perhaps offer one in future or a partial refund if you think it would offer some comfort.

[Cockerlover]

A very sad incidend,but whatever u do ,Dont beat yrself up ,we can only do what we feel is *right* @ the time .

you have been more than fair in offering another pup .

[persephone]

Oh How tragic for everyone

I think you have done everything you can do. Accidents happen - dogs/pups can choke on toys/balls/pieces of kibble ... I think this is such an unusual occurrence , with the bone piercing his heart during veterinary intervention ..and in no way your fault.

perhaps the vet could have done things differently ( I bet they will if it happens again ) , perhaps it may have happened if the dog coughed... perhaps the pup was just not meant to be here...

for you .

Run free and happy over the bridge, puppy

sadly, now, that vet has first hand ammunition to use in his 'Don't feed Bones' advice

[LizT]

I think you have done all you could considering the circumstances, again as said previously, not knowing how old the puppy was its hard to comment without sounding harsh, and I certainly don't want to but if we are talking chicken I certainly would not give a puppy any chicken bones at a young age as even a large breed may not have cruched properly.

But certainly, these things happen and I think most people could only have handled it the same way you have.

It's very, very, sad for all concerned.

[Kaffy Magee]

Thank you all for your replies. The puppy is 4 month old bullmastiff. He and all his litter mates have been raised on a mostly raw diet starting out with wings, necks and now they are bigger they are on to frames. I prefer frames simply because they do have to chew them up to digest rather than swallowing a wing or neck whole. I know there are risks associated with feeding bones, but there are risks with most things, like mentioned earlier, increased chance of bloat with kibble or choking on a piece of toy and I believe the benefits of feeding bones far outweigh the risks, I can hardly tell them that though

Ive been crying all morning and think Im all cried out for now, but I appreciate all your replies and thoughts. Its such a sad and tragic thing.

.

[cowanbree]

So sorry to hear this. I have had a similar thing happen but while I personally will never feed bones again after my horrific experience I have also had dogs choke on dry food. Everything has it's risks and all you can do is your best.

[Bullbreedlover]

Oh Kaffy

I am so so sorry

This is tragic but please dont blame yourself.

I will never ever give bones to my dogs simply because I dread this kind of thing happening.

I do feed raw chicken but the frames are all minced up.

If you have offered another puppy then that is wonderful.

I feed dry food but it is just soaked enough to moisten but the biscuits are still crunchy.

I am so sorry

[Parkeyre]

*hug*

What a terrible and upsetting situation.

I feel for everyone involved.

[peaceful]

Just wanted to say that I cried when I read this and I really feel for not only you as the breeder but the owners and of course the darling puppy.

RIP little puppy

[Wazzat Xolo]

A very sad incidend,but whatever u do ,Dont beat yrself up ,we can only do what we feel is *right* @ the time .

you have been more than fair in offering another pup .

I am so sorry for you and the family, as others have said its nobodies fault and one of those Lifes little things that happen, it is a wonderful gesture that you have made, I wish you all the best and whatever happens will be fine as there is no wrong in this tragedy.

Hugs

[fifi]

Oh Kaffy

I am so so sorry

This is tragic but please dont blame yourself.

I will never ever give bones to my dogs simply because I dread this kind of thing happening.

I do feed raw chicken but the frames are all minced up.

If you have offered another puppy then that is wonderful.

I feed dry food but it is just soaked enough to moisten but the biscuits are still crunchy.

I am so sorry

Yes, this is us too. although I do give them large recreational bones (whole legs ect.)

And one of mine actually bloated on chicken frames

Kaffy, I'm so very sad for you and the puppy's new owners, all the love and care you put in, send them out to a wonderful well chosen home who've done the right thing with feeding.

sometimes things just happen, no one's fault, totally tragic.

So caring of you to offer another puppy. I guess it will depend on how the family get through this loss, but so lovely for them to have a caring breeder who shares their tears.

hugs hugs,

fifi

[TrinaJ]

I am so sorry Kaffy, such a tragedy

run free little one...

Edited September 13, 2010 by TrinaJ

[Stolzseinrotts]

KM, I am very sorry to hear this.

Condolencces to you and to the puppy's owners.

RIP Puppy

I have been feeding BARF for 15 plus years and there have been many litters in that time raised on BARF including raw chicken frames of which is part of the food we feed out on a regular basis.

I think you should just put it down to one of those things that happen.

Looks like the puppy wasn't meant to be here for a long time, run free little one.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Stolzseinrotts

[Bulldust]

Poor little puppy how heartbreaking

I used to feed carcasses straight out of the bag until a couple of years ago someone told me to make sure i either remove or snap the wishbones before feeding to the dogs, im so glad i was given this advice. A bit of a 'shut the gate after the horse is bolted' idea but to prevent it happening again if you dont already id start telling your current and future pup people to do this also

[AmandaJ]

I don't intend to upset the raw food diet people (it's all personal choice) but with all the information on the increased incidence of Toxoplasma Gondii in our meat (especially birds, including chickens) and after having a Toxo effected dog (who is now on anti- seizure medication for life) from catching birds - I won't feed raw meat. Toxo has been found in all species of livestock over the years and I just won't rist it's effects.

[LizT]

I don't intend to upset the raw food diet people (it's all personal choice) but with all the information on the increased incidence of Toxoplasma Gondii in our meat (especially birds, including chickens) and after having a Toxo effected dog (who is now on anti- seizure medication for life) from catching birds - I won't feed raw meat. Toxo has been found in all species of livestock over the years and I just won't rist it's effects.

I've often wondered about the samonella issue in raw chicken?? Anyone??

Also. I always thought that Chicken Bones were a big "NO NO" ??

[Kaffy Magee]

Just a little update. The couple have declined my offer of the little girl pup I have here. They really wanted another male and seem to have found one, which is great, they asked for my opinion which I thought was nice and I told them they had made a good choice of breeder. Some consolation is that I gave out 6 weeks pet plan insurance with my pups and they will recieve the cost of the puppy back. It also says they can claim vet costs but Im not sure if they can only claim one or the other or both. Either way it is better than nothing.