Vaccinating Girls In Season?

[Partipaws]

Hello all,

what is everyones thoughts on vaccinating while your girl is in season and planned to mate for a litter?

I ask because I had this happen 2 years ago and my vet back then suggested against this due to her being in season.

Right now I have a girl due in season early next month and her booster is due now so I thought I had time! but over the weekend it appears she is coming in early - she is not swollen or bleeding, but the boys are extremely interested and she has started urinating a lot.

I do not practice over vaccinating, I give 1 shot at 6-7 weeks depending on pups size then another at 12 weeks and a booster from around 15 months - I know many breeders practice different methods whether it is 3 shots for life, or once every 3 years, but I just follow what another breeder does? So this girl is yet to have her 3rd shot and my thoughts are that it be good to have it done prior so pups get the immunity.

What's everyones thoughts?

Should I just wait and vaccinate when pups need their first shots?

Do you think there is enough backup from the first two shots?

Is there risks with vaccinating close to a season or in season if wanting to have a litter this time?

Thank you in advance.

Jess

[LizT]

I'd be interested to hear the answer to this one?

Just curious though, how old is your bitch ie. how many "Annual" vaccinations has she had so far in her life? She may be well covered enough to wait till later on.

[t-time]

If she's not swollen or bleeding I would vaccinate her today. Sounds like this girl has only had her puppy vaccs so far?

If you intend to mate her, either vaccinate now or be prepared to quarantine BIG TIME There's a whole heap of nasties around atm especially if you are going to shows etc or even just the local dog park

[oakway]

There is no way you would get me to vaccinate any bitch/dog after the initial due vaccinations as a puppy. NO WAY what so ever.

If you are in doubt about the antibodies in the bitch/dog have a titer test done.

If the anti bodies are there they are there for life.

The only thing that will kill them off is irradiation or death.

[t-time]

Oakway - are you saying that you don't give their 1 yr booster at all?

While I'm all for keeping vaccination to a minimum, my minimum is 2 puppy shots and then one vaccination a year later.

THEN titre test if you don't want to give yearly vaccines.......

From the OPs initial post, this bitch has never had a vaccination as an adult?

[TeamSnag]

Why not just give it to her when u vac the pups?

[LizT]

There is no way you would get me to vaccinate any bitch/dog after the initial due vaccinations as a puppy. NO WAY what so ever.

If you are in doubt about the antibodies in the bitch/dog have a titer test done.

If the anti bodies are there they are there for life.

The only thing that will kill them off is irradiation or death.

That's very interesting Oakway, I've been asking this question for years and have only found out what I instinctively felt since joining this forum.

I've ALWAYS asked myself the question of why we can be vaccinated for life but our pets need annual boosters and have a much shorter lifespan.

[oakway]

One before three month and one after three months is what I do.

If you are in doubt about the vaccinations Titer test.

Now all you vet's and vet assistants don't have a go at me. (grin)

A Vet told me that their will be available a vaccine at that if given at 10 weeks will suffice for life.

It may even be available now. I think the vet may have been referring to a Nobivac product.

I can't be more helpful than that as I have moved state and not had a litter for a long time.

[Steve]

There is no way you would get me to vaccinate any bitch/dog after the initial due vaccinations as a puppy. NO WAY what so ever.

If you are in doubt about the antibodies in the bitch/dog have a titer test done.

If the anti bodies are there they are there for life.

The only thing that will kill them off is irradiation or death.

Me too.

[t-time]

Fascinating.....so do both of you titre test every year or what?

I'm doing as I mentioned above and then titre testing after 3 yrs to see if the dogs need re-vaccinating.

In addition, do you tell your puppy buyers not to vaccinate? Or do you give them the regular recommendations?

Also, what do you do about the KC part of the vaccine as I understand that is supposed to be yearly regardless?

Thanks for your thoughts

[Steve]

I give my puppy buyers loads of info and help them to make informed educated decisions based on facts regarding canine immunology.

I dont advise them one way or the other. I don't titre test for the same reason I dont titre test myself or my kids for polio.

Ive never given a dog Kennel cough vaccine.

[oakway]

I never tell tell puppy buyers what to do.

I to give lots of information and let them decide for themselves.

I let them know what I do and what they do is up to them.

Only one Titre test if anti bodies show up they are there for life.

I have got to the stage that I have not bothered with Titre testing the last two litters.

I also believe that if the pups are vaccinated around the 8 weeks of age the Nobivac works.

One after 3 months and they are done for life as far as I am concerned.

I also have a strict rule that the puppies are not allowed to nurse off the bitch from six weeks on.

I know of a case where the puppies were nursing on the bitch and vaccinated and the bitch was producing HUGE amounts of anti bodies still at six weeks and the vaccine did not work. This was when we vaccinated pups at six weeks. Hence the whole litter was lost due to the amount of antibodies in the pups not allowing the vaccine to work. This was proven by the bitches milk being analysed. Unusual, yes, but if it can happen other bitches it might just happen to mine.

[Miranda]

I also have a strict rule that the puppies are not allowed to nurse off the bitch from six weeks on.

I know of a case where the puppies were nursing on the bitch and vaccinated and the bitch was producing HUGE amounts of anti bodies still at six weeks and the vaccine did not work. This was when we vaccinated pups at six weeks. Hence the whole litter was lost due to the amount of antibodies in the pups not allowing the vaccine to work. This was proven by the bitches milk being analysed. Unusual, yes, but if it can happen other bitches it might just happen to mine.

How very unusual, maternal antibodies are normally only produced for the first 24/48 hours following parturition.

I normally give puppy vaccs followed by a booster at about 16 months of age (because the canine immune system doesn't mature until 6 months of age) then that's it for life. I never vaccinate for canine cough, nor do I titre test. To the OP, no I wouldn't vaccinate her.

[oakway]

I also have a strict rule that the puppies are not allowed to nurse off the bitch from six weeks on.

I know of a case where the puppies were nursing on the bitch and vaccinated and the bitch was producing HUGE amounts of anti bodies still at six weeks and the vaccine did not work. This was when we vaccinated pups at six weeks. Hence the whole litter was lost due to the amount of antibodies in the pups not allowing the vaccine to work. This was proven by the bitches milk being analysed. Unusual, yes, but if it can happen other bitches it might just happen to mine.

How very unusual, maternal antibodies are normally only produced for the first 24/48 hours following parturition.

I normally give puppy vaccs followed by a booster at about 16 months of age (because the canine immune system doesn't mature until 6 months of age) then that's it for life. I never vaccinate for canine cough, nor do I titre test. To the OP, no I wouldn't vaccinate her.

Yes very unusual.

I suspect it may have happened more than the odd time though.

I have often associated it with cry we often hear as to......... my pups were vaccinated and now they are dying of what they were vaccinated for.

Often associated with their first attendance at a show.

[espinay2]

Extract from something I wrote up recently when researching the subject:

"It should be noted that while there are some schools of thought that recommend vaccination of pregnant bitches in order to ‘boost’ the level of antibodies that can be passed onto puppies # , there is also evidence that vaccinating a bitch during times of physiological hormonal change such as at the beginning of, during, or immediately after an estrous cycle, or vaccinating animals during pregnancy or lactation, is unwise * . “In the case of during pregnancy or lactation “adverse effects can accrue not only to the dam but also because a newborn litter is exposed to shed vaccine virus”* . While the increase in maternal antibodies present in puppies as a result of vaccination during pregnancy can potentially have an initial protective factor, it can also result in the maintenance of maternal antibodies for a longer period, and as a result a decrease in the effectiveness of initial vaccines as a puppy’s own immune response is prevented from developing for a longer period. This in turn may impact on the important initial period of socialisation of puppies as they may be more vulnerable to viral infection until they are fully protected by vaccines, which may not occur until 16 to 18 weeks of age.# "

# “Veterinary Advice Online: Vaccinating the Pregnant Dog”: http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-...egnant-dog.html

* Dodds, WJ, “Immune System and Disease Resistance”: http://www.malamutehealth.org/articles/immune.htm

[t-time]

OK - if you think she will be mated within the next 3 weeks - completely ignore me LOL!

I guess I was looking at the fact that this bitch is not quite in season yet and with the high prevalence of KC and parvo around Sydney - I would like to make sure my in-season bitch was up to the challenge (antibody-wise).

Under the circumstances, if this were my bitch, I would actually vaccinate her when I vaccinate the puppies and in the meantime give my utmost to ensure there is minimal contact with dogs which go outside the property ie to shows etc and employ good hygiene when visitors come onto the property - quarantine as I mentioned in an earlier post.

[LizT]

I give my puppy buyers loads of info and help them to make informed educated decisions based on facts regarding canine immunology.

I dont advise them one way or the other. I don't titre test for the same reason I dont titre test myself or my kids for polio.

Ive never given a dog Kennel cough vaccine.

Steve, have you ever had to board them anywhere?

[SBT101]

This is just what I was hoping to find.

I am in a simular situation at the moment.

Right, my girl is now day 2 of her season and I am planning on breeding her with my boy. I have tried in the past and obviously didn't time it right as She didn't fall. This time I am opting for progetrone testing and I have booked the first one for Friday (day 6). Now, my vet asked if she has been vaccinated recently and No she hasn't. So she is recommending vaccinating her this Friday as well. I dont know about that so would you vaccinate or maybe titre test instead.....?

[becks]

The Nobivac vaccine will over ride the mother immunity in the pup, so will last for life. However, there is the occasional dog where a vaccine doesn't 'take' and it is thought these are the vaccinated dogs who later contract the vaccinated disease.

[t-time]

my vet asked if she has been vaccinated recently and No she hasn't. So she is recommending vaccinating her this Friday as well. I dont know about that so would you vaccinate or maybe titre test instead.....?

I'd be printing out that article Espinay posted and then titre testing

The Nobivac vaccine will over ride the mother immunity in the pup, so will last for life.

Interesting Becks.