Training Recommendations For A Pupppy

[su888]

Folks, was after opinions for starting a 10 week staffy for training, i've basically narrowed it down to two particular ones of interest to me.

Eastern Suburbs Obedience Dog Club

Underdog training

I'm in Caulfield, my heart says underdog since its in Ormond and 5 minutes away - but my wallet says ESODC since its only $50 for yearly training compared to potentionally $400+ with Underdog training (its 20 minutes away though).

Does anyone have any recommendations on what other schools are available, and experiences with them.

I wish my decisions didn't have to be based on my wallet, but I don't want to neglect my dog either with abusive training.

[perfect partners]

Folks, was after opinions for starting a 10 week staffy for training, i've basically narrowed it down to two particular ones of interest to me.

Eastern Suburbs Obedience Dog Club

Underdog training

I'm in Caulfield, my heart says underdog since its in Ormond and 5 minutes away - but my wallet says ESODC since its only $50 for yearly training compared to potentionally $400+ with Underdog training (its 20 minutes away though).

Does anyone have any recommendations on what other schools are available, and experiences with them.

I wish my decisions didn't have to be based on my wallet, but I don't want to neglect my dog either with abusive training.

I'd recommend Underdog. I haven't done their obedience classes but have done several workshops with them and they are very good trainers and very friendly and helpful as well. If you are going to an obedience club I'd strongly recommend you go and have a look at the class you would be in first. See what equipment they use, whether they use food, etc. It would also be worth considering a couple of private lessons if you haven't done any dog training before as it would be easier to get started with a pup in a less distracting environment than a class with other excitable puppies. Hope you have fun with your pup.

[Tapferhund]

Folks, was after opinions for starting a 10 week staffy for training, i've basically narrowed it down to two particular ones of interest to me.

Eastern Suburbs Obedience Dog Club

Underdog training

I'm in Caulfield, my heart says underdog since its in Ormond and 5 minutes away - but my wallet says ESODC since its only $50 for yearly training compared to potentionally $400+ with Underdog training (its 20 minutes away though).

Does anyone have any recommendations on what other schools are available, and experiences with them.

I wish my decisions didn't have to be based on my wallet, but I don't want to neglect my dog either with abusive training.

I'd recommend Underdog. I haven't done their obedience classes but have done several workshops with them and they are very good trainers and very friendly and helpful as well. If you are going to an obedience club I'd strongly recommend you go and have a look at the class you would be in first. See what equipment they use, whether they use food, etc. It would also be worth considering a couple of private lessons if you haven't done any dog training before as it would be easier to get started with a pup in a less distracting environment than a class with other excitable puppies. Hope you have fun with your pup.

IT WOULD WANT TO BE good in trainers, friendly and helpful at those prices! That's as bad as ADT was and imo a rip off. You can get just as much help by good trainers at normal obedience clubs such as ESODC , Croydon obedience dog club or Knox obedience dog club. Trouble is people think because it costs more then it must be better and this is just not so.

Su888.......go and have a look at several clubs,including underdog if you like.... talk to the instructors, watch the classes and then decide on whats best for you and your dog.

[Kavik]

Cosmolo, who is part of Underdog is a member of DOL, I am sure she would be happy to answer any questions

[perfect partners]

Folks, was after opinions for starting a 10 week staffy for training, i've basically narrowed it down to two particular ones of interest to me.

Eastern Suburbs Obedience Dog Club

Underdog training

I'm in Caulfield, my heart says underdog since its in Ormond and 5 minutes away - but my wallet says ESODC since its only $50 for yearly training compared to potentionally $400+ with Underdog training (its 20 minutes away though).

Does anyone have any recommendations on what other schools are available, and experiences with them.

I wish my decisions didn't have to be based on my wallet, but I don't want to neglect my dog either with abusive training.

I'd recommend Underdog. I haven't done their obedience classes but have done several workshops with them and they are very good trainers and very friendly and helpful as well. If you are going to an obedience club I'd strongly recommend you go and have a look at the class you would be in first. See what equipment they use, whether they use food, etc. It would also be worth considering a couple of private lessons if you haven't done any dog training before as it would be easier to get started with a pup in a less distracting environment than a class with other excitable puppies. Hope you have fun with your pup.

IT WOULD WANT TO BE good in trainers, friendly and helpful at those prices! That's as bad as ADT was and imo a rip off. You can get just as much help by good trainers at normal obedience clubs such as ESODC , Croydon obedience dog club or Knox obedience dog club. Trouble is people think because it costs more then it must be better and this is just not so.

Su888.......go and have a look at several clubs,including underdog if you like.... talk to the instructors, watch the classes and then decide on whats best for you and your dog.

I agree with you - just because something costs more doesn't mean it is better but in some cases you do actually get what you pay for, i.e. value for money. I don't know much about ADT - maybe it was a rip off, but I consider Underdog worth the money. I have done some training with another private company and probably wouldn't recommend them and I've also been to obedience clubs with not so great results. If you're lucky enough to get good trainers then that is a good option but it's the 'luck of the draw' at clubs and some of the trainers are not so knowledgeable or experienced. When it all boils down, if you get the results you were looking for then it's worth the money IMO.

I also agree with checking out clubs and Underdog throughly before making a decision.

[Nekhbet]

IT WOULD WANT TO BE good in trainers, friendly and helpful at those prices! That's as bad as ADT was and imo a rip off. You can get just as much help by good trainers at normal obedience clubs such as ESODC , Croydon obedience dog club or Knox obedience dog club. Trouble is people think because it costs more then it must be better and this is just not so.

ahh yeah Tapf, Cosmolo is underdog training

[huski]

IT WOULD WANT TO BE good in trainers, friendly and helpful at those prices! That's as bad as ADT was and imo a rip off. You can get just as much help by good trainers at normal obedience clubs such as ESODC , Croydon obedience dog club or Knox obedience dog club. Trouble is people think because it costs more then it must be better and this is just not so.

Su888.......go and have a look at several clubs,including underdog if you like.... talk to the instructors, watch the classes and then decide on whats best for you and your dog.

IMO there is NO way that most standard obedience clubs could come even close to the quality of training you'd get from a place like Underdog.

Cost is not always indicative of quality, that's true, there are plenty of places that will rip you off but there are also places that charge very little for classes and you get what you pay for.

Tapferhund, unless you've done classes with Underdog I fail to see how you could possibly know if it's a "rip off" or not.

To the OP, I would personally be inclined pay a bit more for a GOOD training class than a standard obedience club, keeping in mind too that obedience clubs are normally run by volunteer instructors who will rarely have the specialised training and qualifications and experience that the trainers who run classes like Underdog have. Class sizes will also be larger at obedience clubs than they are at private training places.

Edited September 13, 2010 by huski

[Aidan3]

Regardless of who Cosmolo is or how good the standard of training is at a local obedience club, $400 is not a big investment for your life together if it's good training and you (and pup) learn some good habits early on. Thankfully only a very small percentage of dogs end up with serious problems, but it's also nice to know you might have prevented them by getting started on the right foot.

[Tapferhund]

IT WOULD WANT TO BE good in trainers, friendly and helpful at those prices! That's as bad as ADT was and imo a rip off. You can get just as much help by good trainers at normal obedience clubs such as ESODC , Croydon obedience dog club or Knox obedience dog club. Trouble is people think because it costs more then it must be better and this is just not so.

Su888.......go and have a look at several clubs,including underdog if you like.... talk to the instructors, watch the classes and then decide on whats best for you and your dog.

IMO there is NO way that most standard obedience clubs could come even close to the quality of training you'd get from a place like Underdog.

Cost is not always indicative of quality, that's true, there are plenty of places that will rip you off but there are also places that charge very little for classes and you get what you pay for.

Tapferhund, unless you've done classes with Underdog I fail to see how you could possibly know if it's a "rip off" or not.

To the OP, I would personally be inclined pay a bit more for a GOOD training class than a standard obedience club, keeping in mind too that obedience clubs are normally run by volunteer instructors who will rarely have the specialised training and qualifications and experience that the trainers who run classes like Underdog have. Class sizes will also be larger at obedience clubs than they are at private training places.

Huski six of one half a dozen of another.....BOTH groups have good and bad , experienced and not so experienced instructors. For example, when I was with ADT while doing the NDTF course, some of the instructors were good while others were far from it...no different to normal obedience clubs where there are some fantastic experienced instructors and others who leave a lot to be desired.

The thing that annoys me though with the so called 'more experienced' expensive privately owned organizations that seemed to have popped up in various places in recent times is that they are business driven to make money and they have brought with them (to the gullible public) the idea that dogs are complicated beings and that dog owners can only be helped with their 'complicated being' at their organizations under the guidance of their instructors and behaviourists .........and that's wrong on so many levels.

Dogs are not complicated at all...they just need us to understand them from the dogs point of view as you know ...and it shouldn't have to cost someone $400 ?$600 $1000? to find that out....and that's where it becomes a rip off.

IMO and like everything else in this country....its just become a big money making concern

Now to put my suit on

[huski]

Huski six of one half a dozen of another.....BOTH groups have good and bad , experienced and not so experienced instructors. For example, when I was with ADT while doing the NDTF course, some of the instructors were good while others were far from it...no different to normal obedience clubs where there are some fantastic experienced instructors and others who leave a lot to be desired.

The thing that annoys me though with the so called 'more experienced' expensive privately owned organizations that seemed to have popped up in various places in recent times is that they are business driven to make money and they have brought with them (to the gullible public) the idea that dogs are complicated beings and that dog owners can only be helped with their 'complicated being' at their organizations under the guidance of their instructors and behaviourists .........and that's wrong on so many levels.

Dogs are not complicated at all...they just need us to understand them from the dogs point of view as you know ...and it shouldn't have to cost someone $400 ?$600 $1000? to find that out....and that's where it becomes a rip off.

IMO and like everything else in this country....its just become a big money making concern

Now to put my suit on

Like Aidan said, what is $400 over the life time of your dog?

I've seen dogs ruined by cheap and nasty training clubs, I bet those owners only wished they'd had gone to a GOOD smaller private training class rather than taking a gamble on their local club.

I'm not saying all club training is bad, I've been a member at my local club for years. But there is no comparison to the training I've gotten when I've paid more and had a one on one session with a qualified and knowledgable behaviourial trainer. Dog training and behaviour isn't black and white, I've done the black and white training you get at obedience club and it did not work for my dog at all. In fact it took a lot of work to undo. It wasn't even that it's a bad club, the method just did not work for my dog.

I know I'd rather spend $400 than go to a $5 class that is not going to work for my dog. I am happy to pay for quality instruction and training, investing in my dog is worth it especially as you will carry the knowledge you gain with you with every dog you train, not just the one you take to class with you.

The best suggestion anyone can make to the OP of this thread is to research into his to two options and really understand the difference between the two training clubs/classes.

Edited September 13, 2010 by huski

[Tapferhund]

I understand what you are saying Huski.

[su888]

Hi guys, thanks for your responses. I didn't intend to start a flame war and perhaps should of left names out of the topic.

Anyway, i'm just wary of those *upmarket* clubs/classes targetted purely for profit basis.

I hear what you guys are saying you get what you pay for, but i guess i'm one of those that once bitten twice shy type.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Huski six of one half a dozen of another.....BOTH groups have good and bad , experienced and not so experienced instructors. For example, when I was with ADT while doing the NDTF course, some of the instructors were good while others were far from it...no different to normal obedience clubs where there are some fantastic experienced instructors and others who leave a lot to be desired.

The thing that annoys me though with the so called 'more experienced' expensive privately owned organizations that seemed to have popped up in various places in recent times is that they are business driven to make money and they have brought with them (to the gullible public) the idea that dogs are complicated beings and that dog owners can only be helped with their 'complicated being' at their organizations under the guidance of their instructors and behaviourists .........and that's wrong on so many levels.

Dogs are not complicated at all...they just need us to understand them from the dogs point of view as you know ...and it shouldn't have to cost someone $400 ?$600 $1000? to find that out....and that's where it becomes a rip off.

IMO and like everything else in this country....its just become a big money making concern

Now to put my suit on

I'm not flaming, but I disagree, the good trainers who invest in their own education and do a great job should be paid accordingly. I can't think of many other professional fields where there is such a large contingent of adults giving of their time for nothing- it's great- but they deserve to be paid. People value what they pay for.

If I need someone to teach me how to play the guitar- I expect that I will be paying $30/hr or whatever the going rate is. So it should be in Dog Training because it's adult education when it really boils down to it.

The number one question I am asked by prospective clients is 'how many dogs will be in my class?' My clients pay for capped class sizes, that's the way they want it. They get good advice, follow up checks, email access, and a tangible amount of class time being assisted with their technique and they are happy to pay for it.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Staff'n'Toller

[Cosmolo]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Obviously i don't think we're a 'rip off'. And many places don't list prices on their website so not sure how you can compare or consider us extreme in terms of cost. Regardless, i believe our services are worth what we charge- and so do all of our clients, the testimonials on our website are all real!

We provide a different service to a dog obedience club- its not the same- and we have many clients who choose to do both and they agree. No one forces anyone to pay XYZ amount for training. We are not misleading anyone, guaranteeing anything or being unethical in any way. We are NOT like ADT either.

The decision that one makes when choosing a trainer is really, really important and i agree with all of the suggestions to go to organisations, meet the trainers etc. Bad trainers can do alot of damage and good trainers can save alot of heartache.

We don't teach people that dogs are 'complicated beings' either so i am not sure where that comes from.

To the OP- we're happy to answer any questions you might have about us or our training.

[Cosmolo]

What Staff n Toller said. I disagree with the notion that because we love dogs (and of course we do) that we should provide professional services (that cost money to provide, plus ongoing education etc) at a loss or break even amount.

ETA We are not an 'upmarket' class/ club run purely for profit either. If money was all we cared about let me assure you- we'd not be dog trainers!

Edited September 13, 2010 by Cosmolo

[Tapferhund]

"We don't teach people that dogs are 'complicated beings' either so i am not sure where that comes from."

Hi Cosmolo,

I never said that Cosmolo ! What I said was... "and they have brought with them the idea that dogs are complicated beings.".....meaning they (seem to ) give the "impression" all dogs are complicated.

Bad trainers can do alot of damage and good trainers can save alot of heartache.

Now that I agree with !!

Edited September 13, 2010 by Tapferhund

[mmoo]

Hi Su888, what abour Bayside Campanion Dog Club, closer than all the the others, except Underdog, it is in Bentleigh, and everyone I have spoken to is very happy there.It just depends on what you want to do with your new baby. Where ever you decide to go, good luck with your training

[melzawelza]

I'm another than can say that Underdog are worth their weight in gold. Have done a workshop with them and learnt so much in a short amount of time. Great trainers.