Day Old Litter Male Not Seen To Be Suckling!

[LizT]

Always sad to lose a puppy but nature never intended for them all to survive. Full marks to the second vet for diagnosing the cleft. Most vets wouldn't know to look for a cleft in the soft palate and even if they do think to look, it often cannot be seen in a live puppy. Sometimes it is only found on autopsy as it isn't possible to open the mouth of a live puppy, far enough to see right to the back of the palate.

My vet did her PHD on puppy mortality and after doing 1000 autopsies on puppies that had died from a variety of reasons, found that clefts in the soft palate occured much more often than expected. Many of the affected puppies has failed to thrive and died in the first few days, but there was no diagnosis until the autopsy. I remember her giving lectures at breed clubs complete with the photos of the defects she found. Nothing like autopsy photos to make you feel like enjoying supper after the club meeting.

Yes, Dancinbsc My vet said it was more common than many realise, often entire litters have it and appear to be suffering from a "failure to thrive" until, as you say post mortom checks are made.

When checking a newborn it is unlikely a Vet is going to pry it's delicate jaw open and Stick a light down it. They gently check for the more easily seen hole in the roof of the mouth. I had one breeder just tell me "she's never had one" but really, she has lost puppies that have "failed to thrive' or "struggled" but not had them checked out after they passed on. So who knows.

Interestingly, my recent research has shown that it is connected to a "mid-line" congenital deformity, where fissures remain open along the midline of the body, most probably occurring during early cell division of the embryo. Giving you such conditions as Cleft Palate, Spina Bifida and umbilical hernias.

Thankfully the girls are all doing well and getting rounder!

Good research LizT that is indeed when deformities of the newborn occur also gastoschisis, undetermined sex in the genital organs, bifucated brain.

...and abdominothoracic fissure, incomplete closure of the body cavity. Where the vicera is exposed. Poor babies

[t-time]

...and abdominothoracic fissure, incomplete closure of the body cavity. Where the vicera is exposed. Poor babies

I have whelped 2 babies with this - Mum was an Oodle and Dad god-knows what.

Born alive

[LizT]

...and abdominothoracic fissure, incomplete closure of the body cavity. Where the vicera is exposed. Poor babies

I have whelped 2 babies with this - Mum was an Oodle and Dad god-knows what.

Born alive

Yes, that's the sad part, because they are in a self-contained, sterile environment with a life support system (placenta) and no need to 'eat' they are usually in 'good health'. A strong argument for keeping something like 'ether' on hand. You've got to take them away from Mum pretty quickly as her instincts is to lick them vigorously and, well, I wont get graphic, but the outcome can lead to cannibalism.

[ellz]

Sorry for your loss LizT.

Thought I'd mention that folic acid has been found to be beneficial in many/most breeds which are prone to large numbers of clefts.

[LizT]

Sorry for your loss LizT.

Thought I'd mention that folic acid has been found to be beneficial in many/most breeds which are prone to large numbers of clefts.

Thanks Ellz,

Oh yes, like women taking folate rich foods prior to becoming pregnant to avoid Spina Bifida?

Which food would be rich in folate suitable for a dogs diet or would supplements of folic Acid be given?

I've also found out that some entire litters are born with all the puppies having a cleft palate...how sad is that! It's believed to be due to high amounts of Vitamin A.

[ellz]

Many breeders (including myself) give a folic acid tablet to brood bitches every day from a month prior to them being due into season. Although some only give it once the season has started but I have not heard whether or not it is as successful as having a good amount in the system prior to mating. Folic acid is non-toxic so excess is peed out.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to say that it is extremely effective (Google Boston Terriers Folic Acid).

For my part, I have been using folate for a while now and the only cleft I have had in Staffords, was in my first litter before I really knew about the high incidence of clefts in the breed.