LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) Okay, first 'fret' for me now. The only male in the litter of 6 is the second smallest. He hangs around the Milk Bar but doesn't buy anything! The girls are going at it great guns, even the littlest one, but when he is there, lined up at his mums' side he is never on a teat! Mostly sleeping. He was seen to suckle initially yesterday but not since yesterday afternoon. I know feeding in the first 24 hours isn't that often but is it going to be time for a supplement bottle or tube feeding if he doesn't soon? Edited September 14, 2010 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I know feeding in the first 24 hours isn't that often I didn't know that- ours all seem to be attached a lot. does he have a round belly like the others? have you checked him for cleft palate etc? What does he do if you attach him? Does he suck, or slip off? I would be worried at this stage- perhaps it's just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalblaze Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Check his sucking reflex then if it's ok, try taking the others away but make sure that they are kepted warm as they can't regulate the temp. Let him try and feed on the nipples closer to the hind legs, they tend t have the most milk. Express some milk down so he gets a taste and just see what happens. If you are really concerned and the puppy is not nursing strongly strip some milk from the bitch and feed it to the puppy drop by drop from a syringe or dropper, so they will have the colostral antibodies. They don't need alot, a couple of mls and burp the pup afterwards to remove any air, just like a newborn baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) I know feeding in the first 24 hours isn't that often I didn't know that- ours all seem to be attached a lot. does he have a round belly like the others? have you checked him for cleft palate etc? What does he do if you attach him? Does he suck, or slip off? I would be worried at this stage- perhaps it's just me? Yes, I've read it in a few breeding books and the Vet confirmed this yesterday when they went up to be checked, as they sleep alot in the first 24 hours. No there isn't a cleft palate, they were all cheecked. Some of the girls seem to be on permanently! No his bellys not really round at all, when you try to attach him he just turns his head left and right as if uninterested. When he does 'hunt' around the nipple he seems to be clueless in finding it?? He just seems content to sleep next to mum. And yes, I am worried. At least I know he had some colostrum yesterday. Edited September 12, 2010 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Check his sucking reflex then if it's ok, try taking the others away but make sure that they are kepted warm as they can't regulate the temp. Let him try and feed on the nipples closer to the hind legs, they tend t have the most milk. Express some milk down so he gets a taste and just see what happens. If you are really concerned and the puppy is not nursing strongly strip some milk from the bitch and feed it to the puppy drop by drop from a syringe or dropper, so they will have the colostral antibodies. They don't need alot, a couple of mls and burp the pup afterwards to remove any air, just like a newborn baby. Thanks Cavalblaze, will give that a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 So, when you insert a nipple into his mouth ...and express a tiny bit of milk.. and hold him in place for a short time... what does he do? stay attached ?suck? slip off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 So, when you insert a nipple into his mouth ...and express a tiny bit of milk.. and hold him in place for a short time... what does he do? stay attached ?suck? slip off? He slips off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 I tried expressing some milk from the dam but she wasn't cooperative and more ran down my fingers than in the little jar. I think she's at the sore boobs stage, they are quite warm and firm at the moment. Difficult to strip. So I gave him what I could (only a few mls) mixed in with Di-Vetelect. He got about 3 eye droppers full and swallowed nicely. He now has a rounded tummy and is sleeping with the others. But he really needs to get back to nursing from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Just watch the dam for mastitis if her boobs are warn and firm. Give them a good massage a few times a day to keep the milk moving and make sure the pups drink from the sore ones. If you want to supplement, I cannot recommend Wombaroo more highly. It saved my last litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Glad he has had a drink , at least. Is the mum toileting him as normal..and paying him attention?poor little fella . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Just watch the dam for mastitis if her boobs are warn and firm. Give them a good massage a few times a day to keep the milk moving and make sure the pups drink from the sore ones.If you want to supplement, I cannot recommend Wombaroo more highly. It saved my last litter. Thanks, we keep the strong suckers rotating. Uggh! I remember engorgement, I was rock hard for a couple of days. They only had one can of Di-Vetelact and nothing else..but they gave me Wombaroo teats but I used a eye dropper instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Glad he has had a drink , at least. Is the mum toileting him as normal..and paying him attention?poor little fella . Yes, she's being great, and he's getting the most cuddles. And he's pooping and urinating??? They are so tiny and helpless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Is he dehydrated? When you pinch the skin on the back of his neck, does it quickly go back into place or does it seem to stay up? He may need some shots of fluid under the skin to keep him hydrated and then to be placed on the teat every two hours around the clock. I know you don't get much sleep but had to do that with one of my boys who just didn't have the energy to suck and the others were pushing him off. After 48 hours he was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Is he dehydrated? When you pinch the skin on the back of his neck, does it quickly go back into place or does it seem to stay up? He may need some shots of fluid under the skin to keep him hydrated and then to be placed on the teat every two hours around the clock. I know you don't get much sleep but had to do that with one of my boys who just didn't have the energy to suck and the others were pushing him off. After 48 hours he was fine. We have been trying to place him on the teat...he's not interested! Maybe he's sneaking a drink when I'm not looking???? That could be why he's not interested when we try to plug him on??? But the girls don't have to be asked twice...they are always up for it if they are awake. I think they were all a bit dehydrated as I think the Welping box was a bit too warm. It was a about 28C but when the bitch started panting I turned it down. They are looking to her for warmth and we've put a heater in the room instead so I'm hoping everyone is more comfortable. The skin was slow to bouce back on ALL of them but is quicker now. I've just done his "toileting" and got a nice teeny trickle and tiny poos. I'm watching them closely, they are all asleep and quiet now....will try to get him plugged on when he's awake....again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) Liz - I posted this link a couple of weeks back for the formula from Leerburg - I have used biolac - Di-Vetelact and Wombaroo, but this is the best I have used and it is easily made up. I didn't have much success with the small teats from Wombaroo but your puppy is much smaller than my pug that I am handraising so it might be better for him. make sure you have enough holes for the milk to drip through as they do not have holes in them when purchased. http://leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm If your not seeing him feeding and he does not have a fat belly then I doubt he is - I would be supplementing him now because it is harder to bring them back once they start slipping away. If he is dehydrating then he will probably be quiet, you need to get milk in to him asap while he is strong enough to suck. Tube feeding is not hard to do but if he is able to suck it is better than tubing (IMO) Good luck, hope your little man will be ok. Edited September 12, 2010 by Andisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 If he is not interested, it normally means that they don't have the energy to suck. You need to get some feeds into him every two hours. If you have a vet close by, I would be contacting them to arrange to take him in for subcutaneous injections of fluid. As to the bitch panting, they normally do that straight after a litter as it brings the milk down. I also place a sheet or blanket over the puppy pen surrounding the whelping box to keep out any drafts. It is amazing if you get down on the floor with a match or lighter and watch the flame how draughty it can be. Good luck and I hope he starts to improve for you. But if you don't think he is improving, don't wait. Puppies that little can go downhill very fast. Keep us all posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Liz - I posted this link a couple of weeks back for the formula from Leerburg - I have used biolac - Di-Vetelact and Wombaroo, but this is the best I have used and it is easily made up. I didn't have much success with the small teats from Wombaroo but your puppy is much smaller than my pug that I am handraising so it might be better for him. make sure you have enough holes for the milk to drip through as they do not have holes in them when purchased.http://leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm If your not seeing him feeding and he does not have a fat belly then I doubt he is - I would be supplementing him now because it is harder to bring them back once they start slipping away. If he is dehydrating then he will probably be quiet, you need to get milk in to him asap while he is strong enough to suck. Tube feeding is not hard to do but if he is able to suck it is better than tubing (IMO) Good luck, hope your little man will be ok. At the moment I'm getting some into him via an eye dropper, he does have a tummy afterwards so hopefully will get some strength into him soon. ATM he is slow to suck but swallows nicely with the eye dropper. He is visibly plumper after feeding and weighs more. About how much should he be getting at each two hourly feed? I've only been giving him about three eye droppers (the glass kind you get with hoemopathic medicines) worth as I don't want to overload him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 If he is not interested, it normally means that they don't have the energy to suck. You need to get some feeds into him every two hours. If you have a vet close by, I would be contacting them to arrange to take him in for subcutaneous injections of fluid. As to the bitch panting, they normally do that straight after a litter as it brings the milk down. I also place a sheet or blanket over the puppy pen surrounding the whelping box to keep out any drafts. It is amazing if you get down on the floor with a match or lighter and watch the flame how draughty it can be.Good luck and I hope he starts to improve for you. But if you don't think he is improving, don't wait. Puppies that little can go downhill very fast. Keep us all posted Thanks, I didn't know about post labour panting..only pre...and she didn't do any of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockerlover Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 try Holding pup on back boobs after expressing a little milk first ,support him under his chin & paddle the boob for him if he isnt doing it . Have u thought about beef liver t ,He needs energy to suck, so supp feeding is probally the way to go after u have tried helping him on mum . Make sure he dosnt chill ,warmth is very inportant for strugglers . Good luck ,feel free to pm me if u want more advice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) try Holding pup on back boobs after expressing a little milk first ,support him under his chin & paddle the boob for him if he isnt doing it .Have u thought about beef liver t ,He needs energy to suck, so supp feeding is probally the way to go after u have tried helping him on mum . Make sure he dosnt chill ,warmth is very inportant for strugglers . Good luck ,feel free to pm me if u want more advice . Thanks, Cockerlover. He paddles and searches but just doesn't latch on? We've tried expressing and holding him close etc. Beef liver T....by that do you mean an infusion of beef liver ie. Tea?? He's never been cold, as mum keeps him close by, she's really got the 'nose slide' thing happening now. Also he 'swims' over to her and burrows into her, almost looks like he's nursing...but he isn't. We've fed him 3 times now. He looks better hydrated though I'll be topping him up throughout the night until he starts nursing properly. Edited September 12, 2010 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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