Need Help

[W Sibs]

Ok.. Charlie and Emmy usually are great sharing their stuff. BUT, there is a situation where it's starting to drive me crazy. It doesn't happen often but when it happens... GRRRRR

Charlie sometimes decides he really really wants what Emmy have. Doesn't matter if it's a toy or treat but they will be happily be on the floor playing with their own toy when suddenly Charlie gets up and sits right in front of Emmy and whinges for the toy or treat. He doesn't take it but sits there and whinges watching Emmy with the toy/treat and sometimes looks at me to get the toy. Emmy ignores it. But then she must gets annoyed with him so she gets her toy and jumps on the couch and continues playing and chewing with whatever she has... he follows her and starts barking for it. Doesn't take a break from his barking either except when he pauses to whinge... (I once ignored it to see if he would get bored.. he did this for over an hour!)

I've tried distracting him with other toys/treats, I've tried playing with him, I've used my firm voice to stop him (this stops the barking but not the whinging), tried putting him in a separate room, crated him with something else, ignoring him doesn't help (I tried and he barked/whinges for an hour straight... till Emmy got bored with what she was doing and left it, and then Charlie got the toy/treat). He isn't satisfied till he gets what he wants.

I don't want to take the toy/treat off Emmy because she hasn't done anything wrong but I don't want to kill Charlie either because he is my heart dog and all..

So, DOLers, you guys got any advice for me?

Edited September 10, 2010 by CW EW

[lovemesideways]

Ok.. Charlie and Emmy usually are great sharing their stuff. BUT, there is a situation where it's starting to drive me crazy. It doesn't happen often but when it happens... GRRRRR

Charlie sometimes decides he really really wants what Emmy have. Doesn't matter if it's a toy or treat but they will be happily be on the floor playing with their own toy when suddenly Charlie gets up and sits right in front of Emmy and whinges for the toy or treat. He doesn't take it but sits there and whinges watching Emmy with the toy/treat and sometimes looks at me to get the toy. Emmy ignores it. But then she must gets annoyed with him so she gets her toy and jumps on the couch and continues playing and chewing with whatever she has... he follows her and starts barking for it. Doesn't take a break from his barking either except when he pauses to whinge... (I once ignored it to see if he would get bored.. he did this for over an hour!)

I've tried distracting him with other toys/treats, I've tried playing with him, I've used my firm voice to stop him (this stops the barking but not the whinging), tried putting him in a separate room, crated him with something else, ignoring him doesn't help (I tried and he barked/whinges for an hour straight... till Emmy got bored with what she was doing and left it, and then Charlie got the toy/treat). He isn't satisfied till he gets what he wants.

I don't want to take the toy/treat off Emmy because she hasn't done anything wrong but I don't want to kill Charlie either because he is my heart dog and all..

So, DOLers, you guys got any advice for me?

What does he do when you crate him or put him in a seperate room? What did you do? (ie. angry voice, pick him up, call him over..)

[Parkeyre]

Give him the same type of toy?

[W Sibs]

What does he do when you crate him or put him in a seperate room? What did you do? (ie. angry voice, pick him up, call him over..)

I lead him into the spare room and wait till he calms down and close the door. And, just leave him in there. Once I go, he will bark and whinge... I don't let him out till his quiets down. This can sometimes take a few minutes or this can take about 20 minutes...

(thankfully I have awesome neighbours!)

[W Sibs]

Give him the same type of toy?

Doesn't work. He just want want Emmy has at the moment. When he finally gets it, he only holds it for 2 minutes and then leaves it.

[megan_]

Have you tried a non-reward marker (so he knows his being bad) and put him in the naughty corner/room (I wouldn't use the crate as that shouldn't be used for punishment IMO). I wouldn't play with him or give him another toy - that is just rewarding his behaviour.

It is cute though - my boy just steals the toy from his sister and runs away (he is much faster).

[Skruffy n Flea]

Have you tried a non-reward marker (so he knows his being bad) and put him in the naughty corner/room (I wouldn't use the crate as that shouldn't be used for punishment IMO). I wouldn't play with him or give him another toy - that is just rewarding his behaviour.

It is cute though - my boy just steals the toy from his sister and runs away (he is much faster).

same with my two megan --- bella be the strongest but byron is quickly gaining strength so it's becoming a healthy competition between the two of them

sorry cw_ew, i don't have any useful advice for you but i wish you good luck

[W Sibs]

Have you tried a non-reward marker (so he knows his being bad) and put him in the naughty corner/room (I wouldn't use the crate as that shouldn't be used for punishment IMO). I wouldn't play with him or give him another toy - that is just rewarding his behaviour.

It is cute though - my boy just steals the toy from his sister and runs away (he is much faster).

Yeah, I put him in the spare room. Where he just carries on.

I would play with him but thinking he is trying to her to play with him, but now I realise it's not the case. It's the case where he just want to have what she has.

Emmy steals Charlie's toy and runs off with him.. but then comes back and hits him with it (her way of inviting him to play tug with her).

[Skruffy n Flea]

...

Emmy steals Charlie's toy and runs off with him.. but then comes back and hits him with it (her way of inviting him to play tug with her).

this is what happens in my house with bella; she steals and then teases byron --- byron is slowly getting the drift but for the moment, it's a really fun game of raucous tug!!!

maybe charlie just needs to 'come around' and maybe that's what he's doing with emmy now; his whining is his way of getting emmy to tease him with the toy!??!

if it's a treat, i'd be looking to get some advice about that...

[corvus]

Ugh, I feel your pain. Sometimes Erik just wants what Kivi's got. No, he doesn't want a different toy, and he doesn't want his cow hoof that is lying on the floor being ignored, or his bone that is lying on the floor being ignored. He will stand there and bark at Kivi incessantly. Kivi isn't bothered; he just ignores him, but it drives us insane.

Sometimes I take Kivi's and give them both something fresh that is exactly the same. That way there's nothing to argue about and the novelty is enough to keep Erik engaged rather than just harassing Kivi because he's bored or something. And Kivi doesn't have to go without because Erik is a pest.

Other times I might just give Erik some attention, because that's what he's trying to get from Kivi anyway. I'm like "Hey, Erik, leave Kivi and come over here and do some tricks for me. Then you can lie down and I'll even brush you." Kivi has no interest in it, but Erik thinks is pretty neat and it won't get him all excitable. He is usually satisfied with that kind of thing. It can be a fine line between filling a void and creating an association, though. I don't want a dog that barks at the other dog for attention. Erik is very quick and clever about associations.

Sometimes I just take whatever it is off Kivi and put it away. It's rough and unfair, but that's life.

Lately Erik is improving. Today he tried pestering Kivi for his cow hoof and I couldn't find Erik's anywhere. I said, "Sorry, can't find yours. You'll just have to go without." And that was that. He gave up. It is not unlike what happened last year when Erik was first learning to get along with Kivi. He used to try to mug him for whatever he wanted, but over time modified his behaviour to be somewhat more considerate and polite. Just barking instead of mugging. The longer they live together the more harmonious their relationship becomes. Maybe it's a similar phase that will get ironed out the longer they are together?

[Red Fox]

Pop it in the training forum

If it were my dogs I just wouldn't give them toys when they are in the same area at all and problem solved.

Perhaps try only bringing the toys out when they are in seperate rooms, crated, or one inside/one outside, etc. or when you can directly supervise and then if Charlie whinges for Emmy's toy correct him immediately and remove him from the situation (in his crate with his own toy?).

[lovemesideways]

What does he do when you crate him or put him in a seperate room? What did you do? (ie. angry voice, pick him up, call him over..)

I lead him into the spare room and wait till he calms down and close the door. And, just leave him in there. Once I go, he will bark and whinge... I don't let him out till his quiets down. This can sometimes take a few minutes or this can take about 20 minutes...

(thankfully I have awesome neighbours!)

So when you say you wait till he calms down, you wait in the room with him untill hes calmed down before you leave? (or am I reading it wrong!)

Another point is that he has to be quiet for at least 10 seconds. The general association time for a dog is 10 seconds, so if hes quiet for that. Then you can go let him out and make a big fuss.

I would be marking his behaviour with a word (I use "Ah!") the second he starts to whine or bark at her. Then take him, dump him in spare room without a second glance and shut the door and leave. Let him whinge and carry on till his hearts content. Then when you get that 10 seconds of silence. Go and let him out, give him a cuddle if you want. Consistency would be the key here I think, he has to be consistently dissuaded from whinging at emmy. If he whines, he gets excluded from his pack.

If the Bf gives him pats and cuddles when hes whinging, you gotta stop that too. (I can hear richie now "but but hes so sad ")

[Nekhbet]

You need to work on your verbal control if he wont leave her alone on your command. I know what you go through Diesel will whine at Mina until she moves from the spot he wants on the couch If I tell him to go to bed he'll move off to the other spot unless she gets sick of him first and leaves. It comes down to a 'I want it' behaviour simply because the other dog has it, thats where the value lies. If he keeps whining or wont listen just put him out of the room or in his crate. Just tell him to go in there and settle down, it's not a punishment if you dont make a huge fuss over it. It's like telling him to go to his bed, at least this way he will be contained.

[W Sibs]

Thanks everyone for your help

I've read everything and I'm letting it sink in, think about it and work out which way it the best to use on Charlie. I can get him to stop barking but now the whinging, so I know I got to be more firmer on him and be more consistent on him. I really do like the idea of just sending him to his crate to settle down and leave Emmy alone.

(LMSW - training the boyfriend is harder then training the dog... richie is a softie)

[Nekhbet]

don't worry I've given up on my OH. You would think that after a tooth mark to the face he would learn ... nope. Back to some old habits again

[Dame Aussie]

Mosley does this. Sometimes he wants Lilis' spot on the couch, sometimes he wants her bone/toy, sometimes he just wants to be a PITA. He will stand there and lower his head down and pant at her, then the pant turns into a bark, then Lili gets sick of it and attacks him

Ah the joy....