Reputable Breeders?

[flatchat]

I don't allow visitors for the first three weeks so the bitch has peace and quiet and doesn't get stressed. After that I encourage visitors although they have to remove their shoes and wash their hands before going near the puppies.

Good luck in your search for a new puppy.

[dancinbcs]

I don't allow visitors for the first three weeks so the bitch has peace and quiet and doesn't get stressed. After that I encourage visitors although they have to remove their shoes and wash their hands before going near the puppies.

Good luck in your search for a new puppy.

Me too. Once I start weaning I like to have the potential owners visit so that I can have several visits to assess their suitability as owners. I never promise anyone a puppy until they are 7 weeks and I have decided if there is a suitable puppy for their situation and personality Like you I make them remove shoes and wash their hands and ask that they come directly from home, not from another breeder or from a dog park or show, etc. Until the puppies are about 5 weeks they only get to look but not touch and most are more than happy with this.

Each breeder has there own preference on visits from buyers and anyone who has been unlucky enough to have a run in with parvo will of course tend to be over cautious about potential infection, in the future.

[LizT]

I don't get the rationale behind seeing it as OK for the Toy breeders to have more litters than everyone else, because they have smaller numbers.

I think what she means is it would be relatively easier to mange two or three litters of 3 to 5 pups than one of 12 larger breeds.

[Bokezu]

If I was looking at buying a puppy of my chosen breed, I certainly wouldn't be going to a breeder that had two other breeds as well, and if they had 3 litters all at once I wouldn't go near them, and that is just my opinion and I am entitled to it

[RoseRed]

As a lot of people have already said, it depends HOW they do things. I think somebody can manage having two or three different breeds or breeding two or three litters at a time ... but you also have to look at how the dogs are housed, cared for etc.

For eg I know of a certain breeder who looks very good on paper (or website) but to me they just seem dodgy. They have a very nicely set out, professional website. They even mention on the website about not buying from puppy farms ... so all looks good. But they have 3 different breeds, about 50 dogs, that seem to be on a constant rotation of breeding, and the dogs don't seem to be very socialised because the people tend not to spend any real time with the dogs.

[Gretel]

Puppy people don't visit my pups until they have been vaccinated and I won't promise a pup until they are vet checked and I know all is well I am more than happy to email photos and keep people up to date with their antics until then though.

[Bokezu]

As a lot of people have already said, it depends HOW they do things. I think somebody can manage having two or three different breeds or breeding two or three litters at a time ... but you also have to look at how the dogs are housed, cared for etc.

For eg I know of a certain breeder who looks very good on paper (or website) but to me they just seem dodgy. They have a very nicely set out, professional website. They even mention on the website about not buying from puppy farms ... so all looks good. But they have 3 different breeds, about 50 dogs, that seem to be on a constant rotation of breeding, and the dogs don't seem to be very socialised because the people tend not to spend any real time with the dogs.

3 breeds 50 dogs, they really are taking "to improve the breed" to the extreme!! Don't understand why any ethical breeder would need to have 50 dogs and keep breeding them

[dancinbcs]

As a lot of people have already said, it depends HOW they do things. I think somebody can manage having two or three different breeds or breeding two or three litters at a time ... but you also have to look at how the dogs are housed, cared for etc.

For eg I know of a certain breeder who looks very good on paper (or website) but to me they just seem dodgy. They have a very nicely set out, professional website. They even mention on the website about not buying from puppy farms ... so all looks good. But they have 3 different breeds, about 50 dogs, that seem to be on a constant rotation of breeding, and the dogs don't seem to be very socialised because the people tend not to spend any real time with the dogs.

3 breeds 50 dogs, they really are taking "to improve the breed" to the extreme!! Don't understand why any ethical breeder would need to have 50 dogs and keep breeding them

Me either. To me that is just too many dogs.

I know of one breeder that manages three breeds beautifully. She constantly wins Best In Group and Best in Show with her dogs and can often win two groups at the same show. With her main breed she seems to have about 3 litters a year, her second breed only about 1 litter per year and the third breed a litter every 2-3 years. So three breeds can be succesful but I can't imagine anyone keeping up with more than that.

Some breeders have about 20 dogs at a time, including youngsters they are running on and plenty of oldies and this seems to be a reasonable number. These are breeders that still only have 2-4 litters per year, breeding their girls only 2-3 times in their lifetime. Of course others with 20 dogs could possibly be producing 12 litters or more a year, so it is not total numbers that count, but the numbers of puppies produced. Remember those with long lived breeds are likely to have a lot more oldies living out their lives with them than breeders with short lived breeds.

Numbers also depend on how demanding the breed is to live with. With my breed the upper limit for those on acres, seems to be 12-15, but most breeders I know, prefer to keep numbers under 10 if they can to allow more time with each dog. Our breed has a lot of co-owned dogs out in pet homes to give the breeders more options but allow the dogs to lead normal lives with their own families, rather than keeping large numbers at the breeder's house.

[Lyla]

In regards to websites, after googling backyard breeders recently (trying to find a good definition of one),I came across a breeder of oodles who had a fabulous website, bagging BYB, puppy mills etc.

If I didn't know better I would have been most impressed with their views etc. I had to double check her dog profile pages to confirm the oodle crosses she talked about. From her slant on things she described her "breeds" and had you believing that anything but an oodle is an unethical mutt. The general public would be fooled by her eloquent writing.

[Mystiqview]

I know of a number of breeders of both registered and unregistered (eg oodle crosses) who have flashy professional websites that make you appear they are ethical. Some of the oodle websites I have seen also appear that their "breed" is recognised.

There are some who advertised their stock are DNA clear for this or that. However I know they have done cosmetic surgery to their dogs to improve their winning in the show circuit. There are also a number of issues there maybe no test against, but people will double up on dogs with other issues and then will not want to know you when there is a problem.

I know of people who can manage more than one breed successfully. Others cannot even manage one breed adequately. I encourage puppy buyers to meet with their breeder, even if there is no puppy available at their time of enquiry. Meet their dogs and everyone can see if they will be happy with each other.

As for puppy visits: I encourage mine after two weeks when the eyes open then once a week or whenever they can up until 8 weeks. I am the same as others: clean clothes, not from another breeder, dog park etc. If they have a dog themselves, to put the dog away and wear clean laundered clothes. Shoes at the front, soap and alcohol wash. If there is parvo around (I keep in liaison with local vets), then visits will be limited. I have not had a problem yet.

I have seen the result of poor socialised puppies and the reputation of breeders who have produced puppies who attack, bite or are poorly socialised. No thanks. I go that extra mile to make sure my puppies are well socialised, healthy and happy.

[PomsNZ]

I don't get the rationale behind seeing it as OK for the Toy breeders to have more litters than everyone else, because they have smaller numbers.

When you breed a litter and have 10 pups, you get a pretty good base to choose your next stock.

when i breed, i get 1 or if im lucky, 2 per litter. I dont have a good base to choose my upcoming stock.

You can sell your remaining 8-9 pups, sometimes i have to sell the whole litter, which consists of 1 pup. Just becuase that bitch has had a singleton litter, doesnt mean i can back to back to back breed her, i still have to rest her. You tend to get more money from the sale of 8-9 pups than i do of selling 1, so you are in a better position financially to get more bitches. (thats taking it to the extreme, but our dogs have to pay for themselves when they can)

You can say well its the breed etc, our fault for having dogs that dont have many, but when your chosen breed has a average litter of 2, we dont get much choice.

So are you berating us for having 3 litters which sometimes add up to 5 pups when, if we had dogs that did have large litters we would only need 1, or are you jealous?

[Cavacazz]

Thanks for the info.

Does the breeders website having information about why to avoid DD's, pet shops and puppy famrs/mills point towards an ethical and reputable breeder?

Are websites a good place to start of can you only gain so much from them?

Websites are a good starting point, but a schmick website doesn't mean a good breeder. What is in the shop window isn't necessarily what is behind the counter.

A breeder can say ANYTHING on their website, but it doesn't mean that they believe them. Many will say what they think people EXPECT them to say.

If you've been reading any of the threads in General recently, there is mention there of a breeder saying one thing on her website but apparently practicing differenly in real life.

The best thing you can do is to meet the breeders, at the least talk to them on the phone. Establish a rapport with them and use your intuition to decide whether or not you believe in them.

I think I know the thread or should I say threads you are referring to in the Genral section!

I hope that doesn't happen too often!

I do have a breeder on my FB who is also heavily involved in showing and with the QLD club for that breed. She also lives close to me so she seems like a perfect fit but I don't know if she has any more litters planned for this year...

Breeders heavily involved with their breed club are usually a good place to start. Most get involved with a breed club because they wish to do what is best for the breed. also if she doesn't have any litters planned, she can probably recommend someone else that does.

Oh goody! I've sent her a PM on FB to ask if she has any litters planned. I really want someone close by so I can go visit my puppy she he/she grows. I wonder though if breeders allow that? Hmm...

I wouldnt allow it.. No one comes and see's the pups till they have their first shots of needles

I take photos every week and share those photos with potential new owners.....I do not allow visitors until they have had their first needle...unless I know them well and I do not take a deposit either, until they have been to their first Vet visit.

I always suggest that people come to a show/pet day and meet me on common ground and get to meet my dogs AND other peoples dogs as a comparison. : )

[ellz]

I take photos every week and share those photos with potential new owners.....I do not allow visitors until they have had their first needle...unless I know them well and I do not take a deposit either, until they have been to their first Vet visit.

I always suggest that people come to a show/pet day and meet me on common ground and get to meet my dogs AND other peoples dogs as a comparison. : )

+1

[Cavacazz]

I take photos every week and share those photos with potential new owners.....I do not allow visitors until they have had their first needle...unless I know them well and I do not take a deposit either, until they have been to their first Vet visit.

I always suggest that people come to a show/pet day and meet me on common ground and get to meet my dogs AND other peoples dogs as a comparison. : )

+1

What does that mean ..... sorry if it is obvious and I am being blonde

[ellz]

I take photos every week and share those photos with potential new owners.....I do not allow visitors until they have had their first needle...unless I know them well and I do not take a deposit either, until they have been to their first Vet visit.

I always suggest that people come to a show/pet day and meet me on common ground and get to meet my dogs AND other peoples dogs as a comparison. : )

+1

What does that mean ..... sorry if it is obvious and I am being blonde

+1 means "me too"!

[Cavacazz]

I take photos every week and share those photos with potential new owners.....I do not allow visitors until they have had their first needle...unless I know them well and I do not take a deposit either, until they have been to their first Vet visit.

I always suggest that people come to a show/pet day and meet me on common ground and get to meet my dogs AND other peoples dogs as a comparison. : )

+1

What does that mean ..... sorry if it is obvious and I am being blonde

+1 means "me too"!

Aaaah of course <DOH>

[asal]

I don't get the rationale behind seeing it as OK for the Toy breeders to have more litters than everyone else, because they have smaller numbers.

YES IF nature only gave them one pup to choose from they have to accept it. well thats what i was told by breeders that actually get to select from litters of 8 to 18.

yet when i suggested in the case of some of my bitches the 6 litter rule meant i get to choose from 6 pups in her lifetime wanting more to choose from is puppy farming.

well from where it sit if those who told me that then if your bitch gave u 8 to 18, then there s no need for even a second litter or your puppy farming

but hey, its nice to be able to sit on a fence and criticise others, one thing about the dog world, everyone has an opinion and its always ethical if its yours

n anyone that disagrees is what?? :D unethical, of course silly.

Edited September 28, 2010 by asal

[Wags]

Thanks for the info.

Does the breeders website having information about why to avoid DD's, pet shops and puppy famrs/mills point towards an ethical and reputable breeder?

Are websites a good place to start of can you only gain so much from them?

Websites are a good starting point, but a schmick website doesn't mean a good breeder. What is in the shop window isn't necessarily what is behind the counter.

A breeder can say ANYTHING on their website, but it doesn't mean that they believe them. Many will say what they think people EXPECT them to say.

If you've been reading any of the threads in General recently, there is mention there of a breeder saying one thing on her website but apparently practicing differenly in real life.

The best thing you can do is to meet the breeders, at the least talk to them on the phone. Establish a rapport with them and use your intuition to decide whether or not you believe in them.

I think I know the thread or should I say threads you are referring to in the Genral section!

I hope that doesn't happen too often!

I do have a breeder on my FB who is also heavily involved in showing and with the QLD club for that breed. She also lives close to me so she seems like a perfect fit but I don't know if she has any more litters planned for this year...

Breeders heavily involved with their breed club are usually a good place to start. Most get involved with a breed club because they wish to do what is best for the breed. also if she doesn't have any litters planned, she can probably recommend someone else that does.

Oh goody! I've sent her a PM on FB to ask if she has any litters planned. I really want someone close by so I can go visit my puppy she he/she grows. I wonder though if breeders allow that? Hmm...

We encourage and welcome families to visit their puppies as often as possible. I allows us to build a rapport with the new family, gives the opportunity for us to provide information and instructions along the way, and also the puppy benefits so much from these visits and has a much smoother and calmer transition to it's new home. Once the puppies are up and around, they really look forward to seeing their families.

Just another note on this thread. Queensland has a survey system in practice whereby every new puppy owner is sent a survey to complete in regard to the breeders practices and procedures. The new owners are chased up for completed surveys and the results are recorded against the individual breeders record. Complaints and problems are chased up. It is a fabulous innovation by Dogs Queensland, giving breeders the opportunity to gauge how well they're doing and improve where it might be needed. Of course, it benefits the new families indirectly as well. Of course, there could well be breeders who won't necessarily see it as a positive move, but it would do the other states good to instigate the same methods, if not already in place.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Wags