Akayla Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Because Kateshep I wont be swayed by either bias or extreme. I will question any GSD breeder regradless of type. Turning a blind eye is the reason these problems exist. I disagree that WL wont benifiet but thats for the individual breeder to decide. What i said is that "I" wouldnt buy from an extremist breeder (what ever style that is) but from someone that just has GSDs. Ones that have all the qualities they are meant to have. Actually the slope is in the standard. I wont get into it cause Im having trouble articulating today. Anyway. You will do what you think is right. Im just urging people to stop breeding for their gain only and think of the breed. Yes though there are WL that have good conformation and SL that have great drive ect. Why should the be closseted away - isnt that what we have all been wanting? If you want a dog that doesnt look or behave like a GSD though I suggest you either a) find another breed or b) create your own breed. GSDs are GSDs. Thats my stand on it. But at the end of the day I cant stop you or anyone else doing what you want. PS - to the WL breeders (and SL) that do have quality examples of the breed and are breeding just GSDs my hat goes off to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateshep Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 As stated the extreme in SLs was started by neglecting the genetic diversity and focusing on looks to be able to achieve the dramatic change in conformation. Now you are basically saying those who don't follow are creating an extreme when all they have done is not buy into that type of ideal. In doing so we have dogs today which do actually have some type of resemblance to the past dogs. They are not creating extremes just preserving them as they used to be. I never wanted to get a gsd because I did not like what SL breeders had done to the breed, until I found out there was a working type. You don't seem to get that some WL breeders don't want to introduce showlines because of the way they have been selected for several generations- they are potent for certain traits many WL breeders don't want. How dogs have been selected and for what for tell breeders something about what they might produce which matters to them when choosing breeding dogs. There is nothing in the standard which calls for a roach back, infact it is a fault. Gently sloping topline yes but that is not a roach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 A roach back is not a desired trait in a GSD, SL breeders do not breed for roach backs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateshep Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 A roach back is not a desired trait in a GSD, SL breeders do not breed for roach backs... They do they just call it something else, I see plenty of showlines being bred with roach backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I never said I wanted WL to look like SL. I want GSDs to look like GSDs should. Calling someone elses dogs faulty is no better than what you are accussing me of. Lets stick to facts so we can move forward in the discussion. Just because a dog is SL does not mean its roached and most are not as a good judge will pick up on that in a show anyway. GSDs are not straight backed and they are certainly not dipped so WL breeders that breed specifically for this are just as much in the wrong. If you believe that SL is too "roach backed" then i suggest that argueing against working towards a better standard is helping that cause. WL have plenty of faults too, and some of which WOULD benifiet from different lines. If not a SL breeder than one that at least breeds correct conformation. You dont have to even look in this country to see good examples of this. Again sticking your head in the sand about WL isnt going to help nor is breeding in a smaller genetic pool just because of a term. Really thats the only difference. They all already share some genetic material being GSDs. They ALL have the ability to throw these faults. WL and SL swap sides all the time so its not like its set in stone nor is it like WL would be so negatively effected by SL either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 There was also no GSDs that looked like the over exaggerated WL either. Now that i have never seen a picture of. Could you please post a photo of an over exaggerated WL, if you have one, so I know what you're talking about? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateshep Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I have pretty much already covered what you have said in previous posts so no point in going over it again. I am certainly not saying WL don't have faults, rather that the dramatic changes SL have gone through represent a major extreme in comparison imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 You might find all your answers (or perhaps you wont ) in this famous 128 pages long thread that I started some time ago, when I looked for an explanation for benenfits of a changing GSD structure. have fun kiddies and stay calm http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;hl=modern+GSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 My showline dog, who's had quite a successful show career I might add - check out her roachy back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Instead you should be questioning the need SL breeders had for distorting a working dog. Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Not a bad looking dog but as pretty much all GSDs these days it lacks balance IMO. Big head, big chest, rear that doesnt match the strneght of the front. Plus cowhocks? Im no judge I have personal opinion and did a thread about it asking for explanation but really didnt get one then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Not a bad looking dog but as pretty much all GSDs these days it lacks balance IMO. Big head, big chest, rear that doesnt match the strneght of the front. Plus cowhocks?Im no judge I have personal opinion and did a thread about it asking for explanation but really didnt get one then. You're entitled to your opinion of course I think your dobes are spectacular but I've seen several, particularly overseas dogs who look so heavy and out of proportion, with massive chests - there are good and bad in all breeds I think, and breeders who put emphasis on different things. That photo just a happy snap that I took today, so it doesn't show her well - only posted it to prove a point. She has her weight forward ready to leap at me and that could be why she appears cow hocked. Being twisted towards the camera doesn't help show her balance either Same dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I think your dobes are spectacular but I've seen several, particularly overseas dogs who look so heavy and out of proportion, with massive chests I agree with you totally. They are trying to create shorter dogs. Bacause of that they are also creating a ski slope topline. I commented once to someone that the dobe breeders in Europe are following the GSD breeders in creting way to big fronts, ski slope toplines and weak unmatching rears. So sad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 You might find all your answers (or perhaps you wont ) in this famous 128 pages long thread that I started some time ago, when I looked for an explanation for benenfits of a changing GSD structure. Thanks, but I don't want to read 128 pages! And I don't want to start an argument either. :rolleyes: I'm just interested in what health & structural flaws people see in the WL shepherds, that they don't see in the SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 My question was what is the benefit to the sloping topline. 128 pages later I got no answer :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I think ish's dog looks Ok :rolleyes: I'll admit that I have seen some WL dogs (and seen photos) that have short legs and heavy bodies and don't look balanced. But I have also seen some lovely dogs such as this one I quite like http://www.k9workinglines.com/main/dog_detail.php?did=22 http://www.k9workinglines.com/main/dog_detail.php?did=711 Actually most of the dogs on that site look OK to me. Hard to always tell with working line dogs though as they don't necessarily stand them in such a way that you get a good view of their structure. Same with the Kelpies, some working Kelpie sites don't have pictures which show the dog to its advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecTraining Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Here is a nice V rated workingline dog, one of good conformation imported into Australia. Fax vom Grezganger SchH3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Here is a nice V rated workingline dog, one of good conformation imported into Australia.Fax vom Grezganger SchH3 Ooh he's pretty. Ish's dog is pretty too, but slightly chunkier looking than the posted WL photos (no offence, Ish!), is that normal for a showline? I think I prefer the slightly slenderer looking ones since they look a lot more agile, although perhaps that's just because I'm used to looking at a skinny mally. :rolleyes: Edited September 23, 2010 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) V Zasko vom Preilberg SchH3 KKL1 is the latest WL male imported into OZ. He also has progeny all over the world competing in SchH at a high level, the latest being a Zasko son scoring the highest C work in the BSP. Not the prettiest dog but KKL1 is very good in anyones books. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_she...ree/471579.html Edited September 23, 2010 by Yesmaam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Here is a nice V rated workingline dog, one of good conformation imported into Australia.Fax vom Grezganger SchH3 Out of interest, I have seen this exact photo for two different dogs........... BTW when was Fax V rated? Edited September 23, 2010 by Yesmaam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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