Gsd With Low Prey Drive

[Pink Panther]

Hi, I'm working with a young GSD (10 months?) in a kennel at my uni, and I'd like to train her in drive, but nothing seems to get her interested in chasing/playing. I've tried a piece of material on a stick, toys, but she just won't chase. I've tried tying her up and teasing her, but she's not interested. This seems unusal for a GSD... She's quite interested in food, and after 3 days of training already knows sit, drop and "watch". She's got potential, but is there any way of getting her prey drive up? On a side note, she does a strange thing: I'm teaching her to stay, but when I tell her "stay" and step away, she sometimes cries and lies on her back submissively (I'm not touching her). Does anyone know what that behaviour means? I usually just get her up, do a circle and try again.

[poodlefan]

Hi, I'm working with a young GSD (10 months?) in a kennel at my uni, and I'd like to train her in drive, but nothing seems to get her interested in chasing/playing. I've tried a piece of material on a stick, toys, but she just won't chase. I've tried tying her up and teasing her, but she's not interested. This seems unusal for a GSD... She's quite interested in food, and after 3 days of training already knows sit, drop and "watch". She's got potential, but is there any way of getting her prey drive up? On a side note, she does a strange thing: I'm teaching her to stay, but when I tell her "stay" and step away, she sometimes cries and lies on her back submissively (I'm not touching her). Does anyone know what that behaviour means? I usually just get her up, do a circle and try again.

Why don't you just use the drive that motivates her. Use food.

You can use food in pouches, or containers and throw it if you need movement to train the dog.

[huski]

I agree with PF - if food is her naturally higher drive, why not train in food drive? Is there a reason it has to be prey?

[Kavik]

Agree with poodlefan - use food if that is what the dog likes

My GSD doesn't have a lot of drive (and also has allergies, which contributes to this as he must feel pretty awful sometimes when itchy) and I've noticed a big difference in his performance since I started really jazzing up and animating my training with placement of thrown food. He is now much more interested and animated in training. The two food game is used at the start of every session and he really enjoys that (also helps with recall). He is not as good at sending to a stationary food reward, though some days he is better than others.

[Erny]

How long have you been trying to spike her interest into tug? I work with dogs who come in for B&T and they might initially take no notice in the tug. I use food or something else instead, but intermittently work with the tug (if it is suitable). Sometimes it can surprise you, if you don't give up too easily ..... and what wasn't apparent to you (or even necessarily to the dog) starts to grow and all of a sudden bloom. Some take a day or two. Some take days. Sometimes it can bloom towards the end of the dog's training stay at the kennels, but I still use it and encourage the dog's owners to keep going with it.

In our classes, we use drive toy motivation exercises to assist with training. We've had clients and their dogs who show no interest and after some encouragement from us to keep trying, have had dogs 'blooming' into it come the 2nd or 3rd week's lesson. But again - you keep trying it, but flick/switch quickly to and from other reward systems that work.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Erny

[Jigsaw]

Would she chase you if you run with the tug? Will she chase after food if you throw it away from you? If you are in a kennel environment she may be a bit overwhelmed to engage in prey drive. Sometimes you need to shape the interest such as if she even looks at the tug, mark and reward with food, so you transfer the value of the food to the tug over time.

[luvsablue]

Have you seen any clips of Michael Ellis, super American trainer, on training with food?

Go to the Leerburg website, or google him on Utube. You'll see how he uses the food reward to create drive as well as to reward.

luvsablue

[Pink Panther]

If I run away, she will chase me, but not because of interest in the toy, she just follows me. I'll take a look at that Leerburg website, thanks. I just really like to get dogs onto training in prey drive because if they have it, I find they are more focussed than they would be on food. But I guess if she's just not interested in toys, I'll train with food. Do you think it's possible to get a good, focussed schutzhund style heel from work with food? (My own dog is trained in drive)

[poodlefan]

If I run away, she will chase me, but not because of interest in the toy, she just follows me. I'll take a look at that Leerburg website, thanks. I just really like to get dogs onto training in prey drive because if they have it, I find they are more focussed than they would be on food. But I guess if she's just not interested in toys, I'll train with food. Do you think it's possible to get a good, focussed schutzhund style heel from work with food? (My own dog is trained in drive)

Yes.

Training in food drive is still "training in drive" by the way.

A good trainer will work to the dog's strengths and not try to adapt the dog to their preferred method of training. Consider this dog an opportunity to work outside the box. Who knows, with more confidence and training, prey drive may elevate.

[Nekhbet]

Look up Uta Bindells

You can get a good heel with food. Work with what the dog loves.

As for rolling over when you step back, have her on lead and give it little tugs to get her up, then repeat the exercise. Show her it's not wanted.

Not every dog has prey enough prey drive to work in drive. If she's so submissive too I'd be working with what she loves then trying to build something that goes against her nature.

[huski]

If I run away, she will chase me, but not because of interest in the toy, she just follows me. I'll take a look at that Leerburg website, thanks. I just really like to get dogs onto training in prey drive because if they have it, I find they are more focussed than they would be on food. But I guess if she's just not interested in toys, I'll train with food. Do you think it's possible to get a good, focussed schutzhund style heel from work with food? (My own dog is trained in drive)

yes... Like others have said, food drive is still working in drive. Uta Bindels work is a good example. My own dog is a pretty low drive dog and I can still get reasonable focus and drive from working her in food drive. In example:

not great work obedience wise but in terms of drive and focus - and this is a pretty low drive dog - you can certainly still work in drive with food.

Edited September 8, 2010 by huski

[Pink Panther]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll keep using food and see how she goes, and because she's quite young and completely green I'll try different things and see how she responds. I'm lucky with her in that she's naturally the type of dog that enjoys being with people and likes guidance. I've only worked with her for a few days, but I see potential in her, so I'd love to see where she can get. She's in a uni trial so she'll be in the pound for a while before she can be rehomed, and she's lucky in that she's adapted well. There's another young german shepherd who I might work with, so different training techniques are very interesting to me, especially when I've got access to so many different dogs! gosh, huskies are so different to GSDs that are so different to keplies...

[Yesmaam]

Its all in the genetics PP. A GSD that is bred with high prey drive cannot just sit there if the stimulation is present. Genetics tell it to chase and they can't refuse....

Can I ask is she a showline GSD or workingline GSD?

Hi, I'm working with a young GSD (10 months?) in a kennel at my uni, and I'd like to train her in drive, but nothing seems to get her interested in chasing/playing. I've tried a piece of material on a stick, toys, but she just won't chase. I've tried tying her up and teasing her, but she's not interested. This seems unusal for a GSD... She's quite interested in food, and after 3 days of training already knows sit, drop and "watch". She's got potential, but is there any way of getting her prey drive up? On a side note, she does a strange thing: I'm teaching her to stay, but when I tell her "stay" and step away, she sometimes cries and lies on her back submissively (I'm not touching her). Does anyone know what that behaviour means? I usually just get her up, do a circle and try again.

[Pink Panther]

Its all in the genetics PP. A GSD that is bred with high prey drive cannot just sit there if the stimulation is present. Genetics tell it to chase and they can't refuse....

Can I ask is she a showline GSD or workingline GSD?

I have no idea, she's from a pound, and in a trial at the uni

[Jigsaw]

I missed the bit about her rolling over before - (oops). Sounds like she needs some confidence building work. I'd stay working with the food for the moment if she's happy to accept the food. I didn't realise she was in the pound either so if she's a low drive dog this may suppress her drive to chase, if she has any, even more.

[Yesmaam]

Its all in the genetics PP. A GSD that is bred with high prey drive cannot just sit there if the stimulation is present. Genetics tell it to chase and they can't refuse....

Can I ask is she a showline GSD or workingline GSD?

I have no idea, she's from a pound, and in a trial at the uni

Ok, then I would assume your GSD is from show/ pet stock which is most likely why she isn't prey driven. Many show and pet quality GSD's are not bred to work so the genetics are lost over time. It started back in the 70's and is well entrenched and not a one off. If your after a GSD that is highly prey driven you would have better luck with a workingline GSD. BTW most workingline GSD's don't look like your typical GSD either. They range in colour from back through to dark sable and usually have much flatter backs. Their temperament is usually completely different to that of a showline GSD. The main focus in the workingline is the working ability and they are bred from generation after generation of success in the Schutzhund arena.

[huski]

She might be prey driven, just not as high drive as some working lines. Like other posts have suggested there can be a whole range of environmental factors and learned behaviour that contribute to why a dog will not work in prey drive. A dog that lack confidence is also less likely to go into drive, even if it's good decent drive. I've seen pretty drivey dogs shut down when stressed and/or in high levels of distraction.

[Nekhbet]

Ok, then I would assume your GSD is from show/ pet stock which is most likely why she isn't prey driven. Many show and pet quality GSD's are not bred to work so the genetics are lost over time. It started back in the 70's and is well entrenched and not a one off. If your after a GSD that is highly prey driven you would have better luck with a workingline GSD. BTW most workingline GSD's don't look like your typical GSD either. They range in colour from back through to dark sable and usually have much flatter backs. Their temperament is usually completely different to that of a showline GSD. The main focus in the workingline is the working ability and they are bred from generation after generation of success in the Schutzhund arena.

It can depend. Some 'show' lines with imported or higher drive dogs can still have a decent amount of prey drive, you just wont see it pop up as often or at all in some litters.

[ish]

Ok, then I would assume your GSD is from show/ pet stock which is most likely why she isn't prey driven. Many show and pet quality GSD's are not bred to work so the genetics are lost over time. It started back in the 70's and is well entrenched and not a one off. If your after a GSD that is highly prey driven you would have better luck with a workingline GSD. BTW most workingline GSD's don't look like your typical GSD either. They range in colour from back through to dark sable and usually have much flatter backs. Their temperament is usually completely different to that of a showline GSD. The main focus in the workingline is the working ability and they are bred from generation after generation of success in the Schutzhund arena.

It can depend. Some 'show' lines with imported or higher drive dogs can still have a decent amount of prey drive, you just wont see it pop up as often or at all in some litters.

[Yesmaam]

Ok, then I would assume your GSD is from show/ pet stock which is most likely why she isn't prey driven. Many show and pet quality GSD's are not bred to work so the genetics are lost over time. It started back in the 70's and is well entrenched and not a one off. If your after a GSD that is highly prey driven you would have better luck with a workingline GSD. BTW most workingline GSD's don't look like your typical GSD either. They range in colour from back through to dark sable and usually have much flatter backs. Their temperament is usually completely different to that of a showline GSD. The main focus in the workingline is the working ability and they are bred from generation after generation of success in the Schutzhund arena.

It can depend. Some 'show' lines with imported or higher drive dogs can still have a decent amount of prey drive, you just wont see it pop up as often or at all in some litters.

I guess it depends on what you call decent. I have a showline pup in my SchH/ IPO club that is from show imports with working titles. The dog has very little drive and imo is typical of showline GSD's. Most of the showline GSD's i have seen (be it from imports or ozzie bred) are of a lesser working standard to most of the workingline GSD's I have seen. The same thing is seen around the world as the number of showline GSD's competing at the WUSV's is minimal compared to the number of workingline.

Without going into a SL v's WL argument, and back to the topic, I would guess that PP's GSD lacks the genetics to display even an average amount of prey drive that should be in the dog.

May be worth cutting your losses and finding another dog to study at Uni if you need something with drive.......