Vocal Dogs In The Ring And Etiquette

[angelsun]

I once had the pleasure of knowing a Lady who knew it a lot, what a shame her and her type have been replaced with the know it alls.

Yes it is....which catagory would you fit into then? (retorical question as I've already been told by some of your collegues! )

[angelsun]

Angelsun:

I learned that it's not to elicit a fight, or show AGRESSION, as many beleive it to be and think therefore that the dogs on the receiving end are under threat.

Did you ever consider that what you've learned and what the dogs on the "receiving end" interpret this behaviour as may differ?

Well this is where the problem lies...because I have been in the game long enough, learned from some of the best in that group and know that these SAME dogs can meet in a yard somewhere and play quite happily...if they did percieve a threat, they certainly wouldn't be doing that now would they?

I won't argue the finer points of sparring....since for those that don't know how it works, aren't in the terrier ring and haven't been taught that sparring is NOT fighting, they simply can't comment. It's a case of not 'been there/done that' because it's akin to someone who's never done obedience commenting on how easy it is to do that compared to conformation (yes that happens all the time )

[poodlefan]

Angelsun:

Well this is where the problem lies...because I have been in the game long enough, learned from some of the best in that group and know that these SAME dogs can meet in a yard somewhere and play quite happily...if they did percieve a threat, they certainly wouldn't be doing that now would they?

So this is every terrier and every dog used to spark up a terrier in a line up Anglesun?

Sorry but you are just plain dreaming. If there's ever a ring you watch your dog to keep it out of the close proximity of others when passing its Ring 2. I've seen and heard enough terrier handlers asking others to move their dogs away to know that a significant proportion of them don't share your optimisim about their dogs friendliness with strange dogs, particularly when both are entire males.

I may not have been in the game for decades but I keep my eyes and ears open. I read the aggressive dog reports in the Canine Journal too.

Edited September 9, 2010 by poodlefan

[Bilbo Baggins]

Last Sunday in the IS lineup BBJ with baby puppy cav was having a ball with baby puppy terrier something.

It was a delight to see these to different breeds play with each other in the ring.

When No 7 had seen gone over they went back to beautiful stacks. I am sure this was because they had let of some steam and enjoyed themselves.

[poodlefan]

Last Sunday in the IS lineup BBJ with baby puppy cav was having a ball with baby puppy terrier something.

It was a delight to see these to different breeds play with each other in the ring.

When No 7 had seen gone over they went back to beautiful stacks. I am sure this was because they had let of some steam and enjoyed themselves.

See if you can get the handlers of a mature male Min Pin and the same in an Amstaff to volunteer to replicate that one BB. Some would be fine. Others..

[Bilbo Baggins]

Last Sunday in the IS lineup BBJ with baby puppy cav was having a ball with baby puppy terrier something.

It was a delight to see these to different breeds play with each other in the ring.

When No 7 had seen gone over they went back to beautiful stacks. I am sure this was because they had let of some steam and enjoyed themselves.

See if you can get the handlers of a mature male Min Pin and the same in an Amstaff to volunteer to replicate that one BB. :D Some would be fine. Others.. :D

;)

[Diva]

Well this is where the problem lies...because I have been in the game long enough, learned from some of the best in that group and know that these SAME dogs can meet in a yard somewhere and play quite happily...if they did percieve a threat, they certainly wouldn't be doing that now would they?

Terriers may be different for all I know of them, they may all see the 'game' in the sparring, but if you are sparring against a different sort of dog I think they can certainly feel threatened. I know mine don't see it as a game at the time - even though in different circumstances they might happily play with the same dog.

On the other hand, I don't find my dogs overly upset by the occassional 'happy' bark of a samoyed or such. Nor am I.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Diva

[Wilbur]

Back to SnoPaws original post -

Many years ago in NZ, a well known Samoyed breeder / judge (who now resides in Sth Aust), dogs always did the happy Sammy bark whilst in the ring, even whilst being gaited.

My OH parents had Samoyed also. I guess some breeds are just naturally more vocal than others.

[weisnjac]

Last Sunday in the IS lineup BBJ with baby puppy cav was having a ball with baby puppy terrier something.

It was a delight to see these to different breeds play with each other in the ring.

When No 7 had seen gone over they went back to beautiful stacks. I am sure this was because they had let of some steam and enjoyed themselves.

See if you can get the handlers of a mature male Min Pin and the same in an Amstaff to volunteer to replicate that one BB. :D Some would be fine. Others..

My jacks (including my entire male) play with my friends mature entire male Min Pin and the also play at the shows with a mature entire male Amstaff I've been in the Terrier ring for a few years now, I don't tell people to keep clear, neither do any of the people I sit with.

On the topic. My old girl Pippa, used to love barking in the ring, it became a habbit as she knew I couldn't tell her off White it was great to keep her so animated and she looked fantastic for it, it pissed people off, which I can understand. I worked on her and taught her to bark on comand, it worked well as she knew she wasn't getting anything when she barked, unless I had asked her to.

[brightonrock]

Something to remember too as a handler YOU own the space directly in front of you so use it if you need to in order to create a buffer zone. And once you're all set up, don't be scared to move within YOUR little patch of ring to get the best out of your dog.

EXACTLY !

Go ahead and let your dog be himself. As long as he isn't aggressive etc. let him vocalise. Being vocal won't put off the well trained dogs in the ring and it won't make your dog win if he doesn't have everything else he needs. There is nothing worse than a "statue", these are living breathing DOGS remember ?

How very rude of the other exhibitors to try and psyche you out.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already and I have missed it. There's barking and then there's barking.

I'm not in a barky ring myself but when stewarding in other rings, particularly utility, I've noticed some handlers have put barking on cue. Most do it during the individual judging after returning to the judge, ie, not in line ups for challenge or group/group class. That seems fine to me, shows a bit of personality, doesn't interfere with other dogs and is under control. OTOH, a dog yapping constantly while set up in a challenge or group/show line up one meter away from other dogs - not cool.

[Shaar]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already and I have missed it. There's barking and then there's barking.

I'm not in a barky ring myself but when stewarding in other rings, particularly utility, I've noticed some handlers have put barking on cue. Most do it during the individual judging after returning to the judge, ie, not in line ups for challenge or group/group class. That seems fine to me, shows a bit of personality, doesn't interfere with other dogs and is under control. OTOH, a dog yapping constantly while set up in a challenge or group/show line up one meter away from other dogs - not cool.

Agreed... I have no problem with a dog barking when it is being judged alone, it doesn't bother anyone and yes, it does make some dogs more animated.

When you run back to the judge and free stand your dog it always looks good if you can really get their attention and make them look at outgoing and showy as possible (although tilting the head or tensing up always looks better than a drooly mouth barking at you)

For the group line up that part has already been done, the judge has already checked your dogs expression and alertness, they don't forget things instantly you know.

Doesn't it state somewhere in the rules that exhibitors must not behave in a way that will distract other exhibitors and/or dogs?

[shells]

Can I ask what "throwing bait" means?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Can I ask what "throwing bait" means?

Bait = food in this context.

A lot of people train their dogs to catch bait in their mouths when they throw it. Also, people throw bait to get the dog's attention and get an alert and animated expression. I don't mind if they throw it, as long as they pick it up! It's a bit of an American thing tho', and not all breeds are supposed to be "baited".

[angelsun]

Angelsun:

Well this is where the problem lies...because I have been in the game long enough, learned from some of the best in that group and know that these SAME dogs can meet in a yard somewhere and play quite happily...if they did percieve a threat, they certainly wouldn't be doing that now would they?

So this is every terrier and every dog used to spark up a terrier in a line up Anglesun?

Sorry but you are just plain dreaming. If there's ever a ring you watch your dog to keep it out of the close proximity of others when passing its Ring 2. I've seen and heard enough terrier handlers asking others to move their dogs away to know that a significant proportion of them don't share your optimisim about their dogs friendliness with strange dogs, particularly when both are entire males.

I may not have been in the game for decades but I keep my eyes and ears open. I read the aggressive dog reports in the Canine Journal too.

No, your interpretation, not my words. I have seen what I spoke of, regardless of if you or anyone else believes it or not. There are some terriers that are aggressive. No question...I can name quite a few of the top ones in the states that can't be near anyone else without risk of eating them.

As for keeping an eye on the ring...it's not the terriers I worry about. Before the groups split and we had all the herding and working dogs together which amounted to about 45 breeds by the time you got to group, the dogs were sharper and it was a challenge to keep the fighting down. We had imported dogs from Europe which were very sharp and it wasn't rare to see the Dobe stare down the Dane and the Rottie jump into the middle of it for fun. We respected the working ring then, far more than we ever worried about the terrier ring.

The problem as I see it, is simply too many getting involved with breeds they can't handle or present. Too many honestly beleive that sparring means fighting. Can't tell you how many times I get into discussions to explain what exactly sparring means, but for some reason, I don't know anything and am told I"m wrong. (see above)

If in fact you were reading aggressive dog reports, you would also notice many working dogs listed as well as a fair share of utility dogs...funny how seldom do we see the toys in there? why...because as someone mentioned, the trolly dogs are forgiven for barking their heads off, charging the bars and generally creating more havoc than any terrier group I've seen here.....but it's ok, because they're toy dogs...sorry...I'll take the barking sammy in the ring any day over the feral behaviour of a mob of group one dogs ready to attack anything on four legs that moves, inspite of the reality that the passing dog doesn't even cast a glance, never mind posture aggressively!