Vocal Dogs In The Ring And Etiquette

[angelsun]

So what is fairer... allow the dog to be barking and win an award?

Or stop the dog barking and give the other 6 finalists a fair go?

And what is your definition of a fair go? I"m sure if you asked all others in the ring, they would give a totally different answer. I know that I would not want to be told that to be 'fair' I must put my dog in the exact position indicated and not permit anything other than that. I know I would not want to be told that if my dog wanted to turn to face the moving dogs in the middle of the ring, it should not be permitted because that might be a distraction to the others. I certainly would not want to be told that I can't speak to my dog, because some people may find my voice distracts their dogs (yes it's happened) Is everyone willing to forgo the use of food and toys in the ring? Those that need them, would consider having them taken away to not be considered 'fair'.

[RallyValley]

I have to say if I had my boy in BIS lineup ( ) I think I would be too focused on my own dog to notice another dog barking! I think at the end of the day for any dog sport all you can do is prepare your dog the best you can because you can't control the outside world.

[Shaar]

So what is fairer... allow the dog to be barking and win an award?

Or stop the dog barking and give the other 6 finalists a fair go?

And what is your definition of a fair go? I"m sure if you asked all others in the ring, they would give a totally different answer. I know that I would not want to be told that to be 'fair' I must put my dog in the exact position indicated and not permit anything other than that. I know I would not want to be told that if my dog wanted to turn to face the moving dogs in the middle of the ring, it should not be permitted because that might be a distraction to the others. I certainly would not want to be told that I can't speak to my dog, because some people may find my voice distracts their dogs (yes it's happened) Is everyone willing to forgo the use of food and toys in the ring? Those that need them, would consider having them taken away to not be considered 'fair'.

Dogs turning around, people speaking etc I have no problem with. I talk to my dog in the ring, I even stack him facing forwards a little sometimes if he is being a pain.

If a dog is barking or a person is yelling or squeeling at their dog, yes, I do find that an unfair distraction. Maybe I should have said "excessive noise".

If I was standing infront of your dog in the ring doing the hokey pokey and singing to get my dog to be animated and it scared your dog, would you ask me to stop, or put up with it?

[angelsun]

I would put up with it and attempt to use your actions to my benefit. I've used the dog in front who's handler is squeeky obsessed to double handle my distracted dog. I've used the dog behind me who's being food baited (yes my dog is facing the wrong way, but held in a perfect stack) and used it to my advantage. That is called double handling. *eek*

I, as a handler also have the option of leaving more room between yourself and your activities and myself and my dog. I can put myself between my dogs line of sight and you, I can sing, coo or whistle to my dog to drown you out if I need to. But then, that might be a distraction to someone else and they wouldn't get a fair go.....

When you say:

Dogs turning around, people speaking etc I have no problem with. I talk to my dog in the ring, I even stack him facing forwards a little sometimes if he is being a pain.

Someone else might take a HUGE offense with what you don't have an issue with....remember my question about asking everyone in the ring what is considered 'fair'. We'd never get an answer and we'd never finish a dog show. What is excessive in your opinion may not be in someone elses mind. It's not that easy, is it?

[cowanbree]

No I don't think it was you in the ring with me. The offender had a Rotti and was throwing bait for the dog to catch. Not a problem normally but it was lunging forward and my sheltie stacked less than 2 feet away found that understandably quite threatening. Not only was the dog moving the entire time but so was the handler and they were very close, very inconsiderate. I would ask how happy you would be if your dog was behind you? Does he upset other dogs? I think that will give you the answer to your question.

[WreckitWhippet]

So now that I have warbled what should I have done. Dismiss myself from the class, harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare or tell her to harden up.

I would have told her to get stuffed! These are the same complainers that bitch when their male is distracted because a bitch in season walked past the ring about a kilometer away! These may also also be the same people that arm themselves with a squeeky and use it non stop (to no response from their dog) and yet can't handle anyone else doing it. These are also the same people that often spend half an hour brushing their dog after the judge examines them on the table, gait it three or four steps, pick up the dog and walk back to their spot and will totally lose it if anyone comes within six feet of their dog claiming the little fluff doesn't 'do' big dogs, 'black dogs', 'white dogs' or 'small dogs'.

Not me and certainly not my boys, they can maintain some control and focus regarldess off the bitches in season.

It's not fair to be stacking you dog up for the judge or doing your work out, to have a dog in the ring with you jumping up and down and barking. It's rude and it's bloody inconsiderate.

That's a very big generalisation there Angelsun and I can assure you, I don;t own a brush, let alone brush a dog in the ring.

ETA: I can only imagine the uproar from the Toy or the Gundog exhibitors if I decided to show my SBT to his best advantage and bait him off your Toy or Gundog. But hey, all's fair in love and war, it's just that some exhibitors are a little more considerate of those in the ring with them.

Edited September 8, 2010 by ReadySetGo

[SnoPaws]

No I don't think it was you in the ring with me. The offender had a Rotti and was throwing bait for the dog to catch. Not a problem normally but it was lunging forward and my sheltie stacked less than 2 feet away found that understandably quite threatening. Not only was the dog moving the entire time but so was the handler and they were very close, very inconsiderate. I would ask how happy you would be if your dog was behind you? Does he upset other dogs? I think that will give you the answer to your question.

I always try and leave at least a dog length if not more in between my dog and the dog in front of me, and none of the dogs or exhibitors in front of him had a problem. The only time I will leave less is if I am told to move up by the steward or judge. I learnt that lesson quite awhile ago when I was getting boxed in by a few exhibitors I always leave myself room to move forward but can't dictate what others behind me do. Interestingly I really don't think the actual dog itself seemed upset or distracted at all just his/her handler. I have had dogs run up my butt, I have had a rottie exhibitor tell me in the group lineup she was taking her bitch home that afternoon to mate her, I have nearly tripped over food left on the ground, and have had a dog nearly eat mine for dinner and I must admit I don't really pay that much attention, because I am just happy to be there and focused on my dog.

I don't want my dog to be a robot and definately don't expect him to be, he enjoys being in the ring, and when he is excited he talks ;)

Angelsun I really do like your idea of shaping his barking to benefit us, we have three weeks off before the royal which will give us alot of extra time to work on it

RSG if I didn't have any consideration for others in the ring I wouldn't ask the question and would continue on my merry way regardless

Edited September 8, 2010 by SnoPaws

[SparkyTansy]

Maybe we should have every dog go in by themselves, be judged and then go out again

[Wazzat Xolo]

So now that I have warbled what should I have done. Dismiss myself from the class, harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare or tell her to harden up.

I would have told her to get stuffed! These are the same complainers that bitch when their male is distracted because a bitch in season walked past the ring about a kilometer away! These may also also be the same people that arm themselves with a squeeky and use it non stop (to no response from their dog) and yet can't handle anyone else doing it. These are also the same people that often spend half an hour brushing their dog after the judge examines them on the table, gait it three or four steps, pick up the dog and walk back to their spot and will totally lose it if anyone comes within six feet of their dog claiming the little fluff doesn't 'do' big dogs, 'black dogs', 'white dogs' or 'small dogs'.

lol EXCELLENT and so true !!

tell her to shut up and mind her own business, FGS its not playing for sheep stations!!

[WreckitWhippet]

If exhibitors aren't playing for sheep stations, then it wouldn't hurt them to keep their dogs from jumping up and down and barking.

[Shaar]

I would put up with it and attempt to use your actions to my benefit. I've used the dog in front who's handler is squeeky obsessed to double handle my distracted dog. I've used the dog behind me who's being food baited (yes my dog is facing the wrong way, but held in a perfect stack) and used it to my advantage. That is called double handling. *eek*

I, as a handler also have the option of leaving more room between yourself and your activities and myself and my dog. I can put myself between my dogs line of sight and you, I can sing, coo or whistle to my dog to drown you out if I need to. But then, that might be a distraction to someone else and they wouldn't get a fair go.....

When you say:

Dogs turning around, people speaking etc I have no problem with. I talk to my dog in the ring, I even stack him facing forwards a little sometimes if he is being a pain.

Someone else might take a HUGE offense with what you don't have an issue with....remember my question about asking everyone in the ring what is considered 'fair'. We'd never get an answer and we'd never finish a dog show. What is excessive in your opinion may not be in someone elses mind. It's not that easy, is it?

I guess I must just be too sensitive. It's hard being at the front of the line for specials, I can't use someone squeeking toys or dogs barking to my advantage because they are all behind me.

I agree that everyone has a different definition of 'fair' I was just giving mine. In my opinion barking is not on. Obviously many disagree with that, but if I give you a death stare in the ring now you know why

[Sayreovi]

I am another who doesn't particulary care about dogs barking, I like seeing animated dogs and always laugh at dogs that are being nuisances in the ring, because I have one that was a pain as well. I encourage my dogs to act up a little and while waiting on my turn in the group line up I sometimes get them to perform little tricks to keep them interested and alert, and those tricks do include barking. Never had anyone look crossly at me and sometimes have other people join in

Maybe it's because of our flyball background that barking dogs aren't an issue cause if your dogs get upset at dogs barking right behind/next to them, don't bother about doing flyball or even agility.

ETA: I can only imagine the uproar from the Toy or the Gundog exhibitors if I decided to show my SBT to his best advantage and bait him off your Toy or Gundog. But hey, all's fair in love and war, it's just that some exhibitors are a little more considerate of those in the ring with them.

If I ever am in a line up with you behind me, go right ahead!! As long as you don't mind me flipping my dog around to face off with your SBT to show off my dog too its best advantage.

[Wazzat Xolo]

As in a previous post everyone has a whinge at dog shows its just how it is!!

Dogs bark, owners bark, squeek toys, throw bait, brush dog hair everywhere, make comments

gee where does one stop!! It is all for fun!!

I think some people take it to the extreme and far to serious afterall everyone does it to have a good day out and a bit of fun dont they ? Promote the breed and such??

everone has narks and dislikes and I was ex[pressing what I would do, cant cahnge that I am afraid lol

[poodlefan]

So now that I have warbled what should I have done. Dismiss myself from the class, harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare or tell her to harden up.

There are other options. Training for focus is one of them. Dogs are not all stacked in a General Specials line up for that long each time. There is a lot of down time while judges examine and gait dogs. However when stacked having your dog not distract others is nothing more than courtesy to other exhibitors. Most folk will accept that dogs are not perfect. But I'd not expect folk to react well if your dog barks each and every time its in a line up.

Yes, other folk should expect to have proof their dogs against such things. On the other hand, if your dog does this each and every time he's in a class line up then I'd suggest you have a training issue.

Its pretty tough to expect all the dogs in front of you in that line up not to want to turn around and see what your dog is barking at. That's what you're expecting of 5 exhibitors dogs every time you make a General Specials line up. In other words you're asking other handlers to have a higher standard of behaviour with their dogs than you expect of yours.

I'd say work on the issue and in the mean time, also work on getting a focus cue going and determining how much of a correction you can give your dog without shutting him down. Oh, and have a belt of rescue remedy for your nerves.

As far as I'm concerned this is only an issue if you're not doing anything about it but continually expecting others to manage their dogs to cope with your dog's behaviour.

Edited September 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[SnoPaws]

If exhibitors aren't playing for sheep stations, then it wouldn't hurt them to keep their dogs from jumping up and down and barking.

He doesn't jump up and down

[WreckitWhippet]

My point is I could bait any of my SBT's off the dog infront and behind, they animate beautifully and are happy to give any dogs the death stare. It makes them look stunning, but it's not fair to the fellow exhibitors, especially the non confrontational Toys and the Gundogs. It intimidates a lot of dogs and it doesn't make for a pleasurable showing experience for the intimidated dog or it's handler.

If I can show some consideration and restraint in the ring and give my fellow exhibitors every opportunity to show their dog at it's best, then those with the jumping, barking, whinging or whatever else they do, can surely do the same.

It applies equally to those who like to chuck bait around, stack on top of you, let their dogs wander up to others or park their bloody trolley full of yapping bastards smack bang in the ring entrance.

[Shaar]

Well said poodlefan and readysetgo, I'm not so good at stringing the words together eloquently, I just type and it comes out a big confusing mess (which is probably why I get myself in trouble on here a lot)

I agree with both your statements.

[Allerzeit]

The offender had a Rotti and was throwing bait for the dog to catch.

I bet there is a good chance I could identify the person based on that description too! I know of at least one rotty person who is a serial bait thrower - throws bait all over the ring every time they are in there and normally doesn't bother to pick it up before they leave the ring.

[SnoPaws]

So now that I have warbled what should I have done. Dismiss myself from the class, harden up and ignore her, apoligise sweetly and ignore her, send her a death stare or tell her to harden up.

There are other options. Training for focus is one of them. Dogs are not all stacked in a General Specials line up for that long each time. There is a lot of down time while judges examine and gait dogs. However when stacked having your dog not distract others is nothing more than courtesy to other exhibitors. Most folk will accept that dogs are not perfect. But I'd not expect folk to react well if your dog barks each and every time its in a line up.

Yes, other folk should expect to have proof their dogs against such things. On the other hand, if your dog does this each and every time he's in a class line up then I'd suggest you have a training issue.

Its pretty tough to expect all the dogs in front of you in that line up not to want to turn around and see what your dog is barking at. That's what you're expecting of 5 exhibitors dogs every time you make a General Specials line up. In other words you're asking other handlers to have a higher standard of behaviour with their dogs than you expect of yours.

I'd say work on the issue and in the mean time, also work on getting a focus cue going and determining how much of a correction you can give your dog without shutting him down. Oh, and have a belt of rescue remedy for your nerves.

As far as I'm concerned this is only an issue if you're not doing anything about it but continually expecting others to manage their dogs to cope with your dog's behaviour.

Thanks PF ;)

We are working on it, it isn't something I am just ignoring. As I said when he barks he does bounce/bob (NOT jump and up down) as does any dog when the bark and he then puts his perfectly stacked up front out, which isn't a good look so I would prefer he doesn't

We have been working on his focus for a year but he is a dog with very little drive and zero food drive which is challenging for me but we are sort of getting there. If you saw the difference between and year ago and now you would know what I mean

Over the next few weeks I will try to teach him talk on cue along side the quiet cue. Maybe I can get him to talk just before he enters the ring and again afterwards and ask him to be quiet while we are in the ring. Rather than just trying to get a very vocal dog to be quiet.

I used to take rescue remedy when we first started showing might be a good idea to get another bottle

[poodlefan]

Thanks PF ;)

We are working on it, it isn't something I am just ignoring. As I said when he barks he does bounce/bob (NOT jump and up down) as does any dog when the bark and he then puts his perfectly stacked up front out, which isn't a good look so I would prefer he doesn't

We have been working on his focus for a year but he is a dog with very little drive and zero food drive which is challenging for me but we are sort of getting there. If you saw the difference between and year ago and now you would know what I mean

Over the next few weeks I will try to teach him talk on cue along side the quiet cue. Maybe I can get him to talk just before he enters the ring and again afterwards and ask him to be quiet while we are in the ring. Rather than just trying to get a very vocal dog to be quiet.

I used to take rescue remedy when we first started showing might be a good idea to get another bottle

What might be worth a try is to teach a "watch" cue. Have him look up at you and reward for focus and quietness. (having food in your mouth can help this) Try holding a toy also. Extend the duration of the "watch" cue until you can hold a couple of minutes without noise. Then take it to shows and practice it outside the ring.

If he's focussed on another task he's unlikely to want to bark if he knows the reward ONLY comes for quietness.

What foods have you tried as rewards? What DOES motivate him?