Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[Nekhbet]

this country has an absolutely abysmal record of animal welfare and understanding/respect of living creatures. This is the kick in the backside local councils need to stop overlooking puppy farm issues simply to line their own pockets

[Fevah]

I'm impressed the rally got onto the news here, well done guys!!!

[Shmurps]

Some speeches even mentioned registered breeders in a positive manner, and I didn't hear anything to the contrary.

Thanks for posting this report! That's exactly what should've been mentioned, somewhere, at a rally against puppy-farming. Because sound registered breeders do the very opposite of puppy-farming. So any proposed remedies against puppy-farming shouldn't interfere with what these breeders already do well.

Cosmolo speech was excellent and the people around me were commenting on how good it was. Included in her speech was about registered ethical breeders

and how they breed and raise their pups etc. It was a little hard to hear but I'm sure she will fill you in herself.

[shortstep]

This is a completely innocent question for those breeders who are concerned about any change in legislation or tougher administration of the current legislation.

In all honesty, I am not well researched on the legislation, but I would like to know exactly which rules registered breeders would like to be 'exempt' from? In point form, black and white, brutally honest, what exactly scares you about it all? I mean specific points.

I for one and most of the breeders I know are people, just like you who love dogs. We are not in business. We have a home and family and live just like you do. We also happen to have spent many years learning about our breeds. We do other things with our dogs and that is what got us interested in the breed. We breed because we want to try to breed a better dog, and most of the time it is to breed a better dog for ourselves.

Now I ask you, to ask yourself, would you like to have the RSPCA doing inspections of your home? Would like your family to go through this? Looking in your back yard or at your bedroom where your dog sleeps? Inspecting your kitchen for hygine as this is where you dish up the dogs dinners? The neighbors are looking out the windows wondering what is going on. Maybe they bring the TV guys to see if they can get some prime time footage of a 'bad' breeder?

Would you like to have to produce on demand worming records for 3 years, the days you bred a bitch 2 years ago, complete records on weight of every pup in a litter 3 years ago? Would you like to have to prove everything you have done with your dogs to promote their health and safety?

Would you like to be liable for criminal prosecution, jail and or fines if they find something they do not like? In NSW if you do not have a bowl marked for each 3 week old pup you have broken the law. If you have your pups in your bedroom for the first 2 weeks and the whelping box is 1" too small, your guilty of breaking the state breeding act.

And then you go though all this and take such a big legal risk, knowing you will end up loosing money (because you always loose money breeding a litter).

Does this sound like something you would want to do?

If they bring in a law like this, then I will stop breeding. I can store some semen and maybe send a dog to NZ. Have it bred over there and get my pup from my own bloodlines from the litter. Why put myself through it, when all I really want is my next dog..eh?

BTW I have around a 2 year waiting list for my pups, they are very well thought of and all go to the very best of homes. These are the folks who will be really hurt by this, if all the small breeders like me just stop breeding.

But you will have what you want, you can all go get your pups from one of the big breeding establishment that is monitored closely by the RSPCA and government. My bedroom whelped litters will be a thing of the past. Just a memory of the good old days when people not businesses bred dogs.

I really don't care any more, I am tired of trying to make people understand.

To those who say if you are ethical then what do you have to worry about? The answer is nothing, as I would not put myself through it. Leave dog breeding to the big companies that are experts at passing inspections and meeting state laws and have lawyers and big bank accounts to deal with it. Wonder how much these professional puppy farm bred puppies will cost then?

BTW I had a look at someone's (a breeder) web site who is promoting this. They have puppies for sale on their web site, pictures and all. Which is one of things that 'ethical' breeders should not do and they need to make a law in Vic to stop it from happening. Where is their waiting list? Go figure.

Edited September 19, 2010 by shortstep

[Nekhbet]

I think people need to realise that this legislation are for people who register themselves as a domestic animal business, IE you breed dogs to sell and you have over a certain number of bitches. Profit or not the law considers you a type of business. Provisions are also already in place for registered breeders as they are under a COE ... the fact the ANKC is not getting too involved to make it's COE, quality control etc known, I would be blaming them for your ills not people trying to shut down cruel breeding operations.

As for these 'laws' about whelping puppies in the house no links have still been provided and many people still cannot find them. I'm sure enough people here would write letters of protest against such stupidity if someone would provide us the info on where this is all written and who supports it

[Kirty]

Got decent air time on all the big stations news. Saw myself and my sister on ch 7! LOL!

Bertandsally, I saw your dog and said to my sister that I should go and ask if its a blue merle BC because she always gets mistaken for an Aussie. It was too crowded though so we couldn't get over there.

[shortstep]

I think people need to realise that this legislation are for people who register themselves as a domestic animal business, IE you breed dogs to sell and you have over a certain number of bitches. Profit or not the law considers you a type of business. Provisions are also already in place for registered breeders as they are under a COE ... the fact the ANKC is not getting too involved to make it's COE, quality control etc known, I would be blaming them for your ills not people trying to shut down cruel breeding operations.

As for these 'laws' about whelping puppies in the house no links have still been provided and many people still cannot find them. I'm sure enough people here would write letters of protest against such stupidity if someone would provide us the info on where this is all written and who supports it

Read it again, I said If I whelp a litter in my bedroom and the whelping box is not the size they say it has to be then I am breaking the law.

Anyway it does not matter, leave the dog breeding to people who can afford lawyers to see them through the process.

Edited September 19, 2010 by shortstep

[Nekhbet]

whelping box is not the size they say it has to be then I am breaking the law.

where is the problem making it to size?

I still dont see links to these laws. If they're going to impact on the breeders so badly why isnt the ANKC doing something about them?

[shortstep]

whelping box is not the size they say it has to be then I am breaking the law.

where is the problem making it to size?

I still dont see links to these laws. If they're going to impact on the breeders so badly why isnt the ANKC doing something about them?

There is no problem as long as you find the law, understand the law and then get a box (or what have you) made just the way they want it. Frankly they can shove it, my box (or what have you) has worked just fine for 20 years, I really do not care to meet every law so that I can have the honor of loosing money breeding a litter of puppies and maybe end up makeing the evening news as a criminal dog breeder. Thanks but no thanks!.

Look you should be happy, you have driven off another small breeder. Now you can get your puppies from commercial breeders who meet the laws to the letter. I bet they will be great pups too!

Read the NSW dog and cat breeding act. However ff I can point out, this is not the law you are wanting in QLD, so it is a non issue.

[Nekhbet]

I read the act and I couldnt find specifics hence I'm (for about the 10th time) asking for a link which no one seems to have.

stop being grumpy about it and just dialogue. You're slitting your own throat with your poor attitude.

and I dont want to hear 'you dont know what it's like' I do. Something I love was taken away from me because instead of doing something contructive everyone just argued, schutzhund was lost to Vic totally. People who try to train stand to lose everything at the hands of hte courts and the officers.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Nekhbet

[puggy_puggy]

7 weeks ago we had a pipe dream. Today we had thousands supporting Oscar's Law.

This rally was organised by 5 people, 4 from independent Victorian dog rescue organisations plus the founder of Oscar's Law Deb Tranter. Look what the little guys in rescue can do in 7 weeks.

Thank you to everyone that attended today or helped along the way to make this historic day happen.

[Guardienne]

whelping box is not the size they say it has to be then I am breaking the law.

where is the problem making it to size?

I still dont see links to these laws. If they're going to impact on the breeders so badly why isnt the ANKC doing something about them?

There is no problem as long as you find the law, understand the law and then get a box (or what have you) made just the way they want it. Frankly they can shove it, my box (or what have you) has worked just fine for 20 years, I really do not care to meet every law so that I can have the honor of loosing money breeding a litter of puppies and maybe end up makeing the evening news as a criminal dog breeder. Thanks but no thanks!.

Look you should be happy, you have driven off another small breeder. Now you can get your puppies from commercial breeders who meet the laws to the letter. I bet they will be great pups too!

Read the NSW dog and cat breeding act. However ff I can point out, this is not the law you are wanting in QLD, so it is a non issue.

Dogs are living in misery and we want laws to stop this from happening, but you expect us to not fight for change and are upset because someone might tell you what size whelping box you are supposed to use........ please......

[shortstep]

I read the act and I couldnt find specifics hence I'm (for about the 10th time) asking for a link which no one seems to have.

stop being grumpy about it and just dialogue.

LOL No, dialogue can not be demanded from me.

Now read this again...

I really don't care any more, I am tired of trying to make people understand.

BTW read the act again, I had to go through the 40 pages of laws several times, take it to my vet and discuss it with several experts before I was sure I understood it all. Right now I am in compliance, so will wait to see what else happens. The day they make it a law to come into my home (read my home not a kennel and not a buisness) and inspect me for no other reason other than I bred an occasional litter to see if I am breaking some law, that is the day I quit. Further, I do not care if you like the way I feel about it or not.

Edited September 19, 2010 by shortstep

[shortstep]

whelping box is not the size they say it has to be then I am breaking the law.

where is the problem making it to size?

I still dont see links to these laws. If they're going to impact on the breeders so badly why isnt the ANKC doing something about them?

There is no problem as long as you find the law, understand the law and then get a box (or what have you) made just the way they want it. Frankly they can shove it, my box (or what have you) has worked just fine for 20 years, I really do not care to meet every law so that I can have the honor of loosing money breeding a litter of puppies and maybe end up makeing the evening news as a criminal dog breeder. Thanks but no thanks!.

Look you should be happy, you have driven off another small breeder. Now you can get your puppies from commercial breeders who meet the laws to the letter. I bet they will be great pups too!

Read the NSW dog and cat breeding act. However ff I can point out, this is not the law you are wanting in QLD, so it is a non issue.

Dogs are living in misery and we want laws to stop this from happening, but you expect us to not fight for change and are upset because someone might tell you what size whelping box you are supposed to use........ please......

No I am fine with it, leave the breeding to people that the RSPCA and the government monitor and inspect and proscute to the full extent of the law. I am good with it.

[D & D]

I read the act and I couldnt find specifics hence I'm (for about the 10th time) asking for a link which no one seems to have.

This act?

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pd...of-practice.pdf

There's a lot to read through. If inspectors want to get pedantic, they can.

[Guardienne]

7 weeks ago we had a pipe dream. Today we had thousands supporting Oscar's Law.

This rally was organised by 5 people, 4 from independent Victorian dog rescue organisations plus the founder of Oscar's Law Deb Tranter. Look what the little guys in rescue can do in 7 weeks.

Thank you to everyone that attended today or helped along the way to make this historic day happen.

And an amazing job they did

[Nekhbet]

I've read that ... where does it state each bowl must be named? Dogs and weaned pups need to have individual bowls. No where it states that whelping boxes must be X size, it simply says must be suitable ie, dont use a manky cardboard box or the boot of a car. They even provide requirements for animals in houses or backyard. Unless there is another section to what itsmeg provided.

Whatever is in blue is the standard (ie minimum), guidelines are agreed BEST practice. I want to be a registerd breeder and frankly if I have to give each of my dogs their own bowl, keep basic health records, make sure my dogs are healthy and exercised and not living in cramped quarters then what is there to get upset about. As for the being inspected, why should anyone complying with the law worry, it's what the COE of you state canine council requires anyway. If you do not understand the law why not go straight to the council and ask them to explain it to you, sign it for you and bobs your uncle.

shortstep you mention NSW but your info says QLD, which legislation are you then referring to?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Nekhbet

[pip1981]

This is a completely innocent question for those breeders who are concerned about any change in legislation or tougher administration of the current legislation.

In all honesty, I am not well researched on the legislation, but I would like to know exactly which rules registered breeders would like to be 'exempt' from? In point form, black and white, brutally honest, what exactly scares you about it all? I mean specific points.

I for one and most of the breeders I know are people, just like you who love dogs. We are not in business. We have a home and family and live just like you do. We also happen to have spent many years learning about our breeds. We do other things with our dogs and that is what got us interested in the breed. We breed because we want to try to breed a better dog, and most of the time it is to breed a better dog for ourselves.

Now I ask you, to ask yourself, would you like to have the RSPCA doing inspections of your home? Would like your family to go through this? Looking in your back yard or at your bedroom where your dog sleeps? Inspecting your kitchen for hygine as this is where you dish up the dogs dinners? The neighbors are looking out the windows wondering what is going on. Maybe they bring the TV guys to see if they can get some prime time footage of a 'bad' breeder?

Would you like to have to produce on demand worming records for 3 years, the days you bred a bitch 2 years ago, complete records on weight of every pup in a litter 3 years ago? Would you like to have to prove everything you have done with your dogs to promote their health and safety?

Would you like to be liable for criminal prosecution, jail and or fines if they find something they do not like? In NSW if you do not have a bowl marked for each 3 week old pup you have broken the law. If you have your pups in your bedroom for the first 2 weeks and the whelping box is 1" too small, your guilty of breaking the state breeding act.

And then you go though all this and take such a big legal risk, knowing you will end up loosing money (because you always loose money breeding a litter).

Does this sound like something you would want to do?

If they bring in a law like this, then I will stop breeding. I can store some semen and maybe send a dog to NZ. Have it bred over there and get my pup from my own bloodlines from the litter. Why put myself through it, when all I really want is my next dog..eh?

BTW I have around a 2 year waiting list for my pups, they are very well thought of and all go to the very best of homes. These are the folks who will be really hurt by this, if all the small breeders like me just stop breeding.

But you will have what you want, you can all go get your pups from one of the big breeding establishment that is monitored closely by the RSPCA and government. My bedroom whelped litters will be a thing of the past. Just a memory of the good old days when people not businesses bred dogs.

I really don't care any more, I am tired of trying to make people understand.

To those who say if you are ethical then what do you have to worry about? The answer is nothing, as I would not put myself through it. Leave dog breeding to the big companies that are experts at passing inspections and meeting state laws and have lawyers and big bank accounts to deal with it. Wonder how much these professional puppy farm bred puppies will cost then?

BTW I had a look at someone's (a breeder) web site who is promoting this. They have puppies for sale on their web site, pictures and all. Which is one of things that 'ethical' breeders should not do and they need to make a law in Vic to stop it from happening. Where is their waiting list? Go figure.

Ok, I now understand that some of the rules you, as a small scale family breeder, have to comply with are somewhat unreasonable, thank-you for your response. However, they wouldn't be enough to stop me doing something I was passionate about, and I would be content to allow inspections into my home, if it meant that not-so-ethical 'in the home' breeders were found out, and I was helping protect the welfare of dogs other than my own.

I hope you continue to do what you do, as this is the only kind of 'situation' I would like any future pups from (other than rescue).

As far as I understand it, many of the attendees of today's rally want to abolish large-scale operations, so for you to make out that we should be 'happy' because that is where we want our puppies from is offensive.

Dogs are living in misery and we want laws to stop this from happening, but you expect us to not fight for change and are upset because someone might tell you what size whelping box you are supposed to use........ please......

exactly...

Got decent air time on all the big stations news. Saw myself and my sister on ch 7! LOL!

YAY!!

7 weeks ago we had a pipe dream. Today we had thousands supporting Oscar's Law.

This rally was organised by 5 people, 4 from independent Victorian dog rescue organisations plus the founder of Oscar's Law Deb Tranter. Look what the little guys in rescue can do in 7 weeks.

Thank you to everyone that attended today or helped along the way to make this historic day happen.

Well done!! And you're welcome :D

[Pawfect]

7 weeks ago we had a pipe dream. Today we had thousands supporting Oscar's Law.

This rally was organised by 5 people, 4 from independent Victorian dog rescue organisations plus the founder of Oscar's Law Deb Tranter. Look what the little guys in rescue can do in 7 weeks.

Thank you to everyone that attended today or helped along the way to make this historic day happen.

Proud to have been there!

[perfect partners]

7 weeks ago we had a pipe dream. Today we had thousands supporting Oscar's Law.

This rally was organised by 5 people, 4 from independent Victorian dog rescue organisations plus the founder of Oscar's Law Deb Tranter. Look what the little guys in rescue can do in 7 weeks.

Thank you to everyone that attended today or helped along the way to make this historic day happen.

What a fantastic effort. Well done! I was glad to be able to come along and support such a worthy cause.