Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[Steve]

Bump

Come on people are you going to let the animal libbers get away with including Registered Ethical Breeders in this presentation to the Government.

Where will you go for your beautiful pets when all breeding has been closed down.

Registered Ethical breeders were not specifically excluded from this bill.

Again I ask where will you go to purchase healthy genetically tested dogs from, if we the registered breeders, and I mean registered with the Controlling Body of our state of Residence, are not permitted to breed ???????????.

Well, I'm not quite sure who you're really addressing here. Future buyers of puppies?

Registered breeders have their canine councils, lobby them to act on your behalf, isn't that why you elect them? Registered breeders have to fight the fight themselves, they have to stand up and separate themselves.....in the eyes of the puppy buying public....from puppy farms, backyard breeders etc. And they have to tell the public loud and clear why it's better to buy a puppy from them.

it is true, the majority don't care just whinge amongst themselves when the ones with the loudest voice are often heard. there's alot a registered breeder can do amongst the general public to promote ourselves but sadly not many are interested. lobby your breed club to conduct a friendly members comp to include members with pets to educate them about the pros of pedigree dogs.

talk to your workmates about it, on facebook, on public forums, write to your councils, MP's the government,there is heaps you can do rather than telling each other, its not going to get us anywhere.

you are preaching to the already converted.

in our state the state controlling body IS doing something after they were bombarded by its members, they are holding a puppy farm forum, have invited its members to have input on how to deal with this issue. They are one of 5 approved organisations i hear to advise the government on canine issues. So the RSPCA is pushing their agenda but i see their proposed legislation does exclude Registered breeders of DogsVictoria. So Dogs Victoria are pushing for its members too. all the things RSPCA listed on their proposed legislation is what registered breeders are already doing.

this is why they did set up this companion dog club thats going very well i see in Victoria. it promotes us in the general public and something for the average pet owner to join and learn about what we do best in a positive light.

and all the while most registered breeders at shows that i talked to were grumbling about the general public coming in ruining their shows. how ridiculous, its getting us out there amongst the general public pushing something positive....but no, grumble grumble grumble.....

sometimes i just don't understand the negative attitudes its not helping anyone at all isn't it any wonder that anything is said about us is just negative stuff ....!!!

i get sick of hearing negative stuff its really depressing im sorry that way but i really do...... and i don't really agree with US and THEM policy of saying its animal libbers against US registered breeders. people who are against puppy farmers are not hard core animal libbers i will say it again.

it is just normal people that want to see dog and cat sales banned in petshops and also puppy farms banned nothing else tacked on the end. becuse they believe in this they are called the dreaded "animal libbers" are they? its not a coo against registered breeders and stopping anyone breeding nothing has been said about this.

if i can't find anything out in plain sight written about stopping registered breeders im sure no one of the average community can too.

Toy dogs - Stop a minute.

The new laws which are on the table are about who will police the laws which are already there - NOT JUST COMPANION ANIMALS LAWS but also laws which pertain to environment and planning . Do you understand that no matter what you think will be the exemptions via being a registered breeder that they dont mean jack shit as soon as enviromental laws cut in.

Ring up and ask your shire what you have to do to run a business from home via environmental department - not companion animals department.

You are not special, you are not able to have more rights than someone who breeds cross bred dogs, no amount of promoting purebreds or registered breeders is going to do a single thing to help the fact that environmental laws say what you can and cant do on your property and if they allow you to do it how thats going to be done.

No one cares if you have 5 chis or 50 great danes .So far you have been able to breed dogs from your property and only have to worry about whether you comply with companion animal laws. 5 for unregistered and 10 for registered because council havent been policing environmental laws until there has been a complaint but what you are asking for is for the RSPCA to police these laws and to be able check you out with out a complaint to be sure you are complying with them. That you have your DA and your concrete pens and quarantine areas - NO MATTER WHAT YOU BREED OR HOW MANY YOU OWN.

Your push to clean up puppy farmers and introduce tougher laws is based on your belief that everyone thinks you are better than and different to any one else because you breed registered dogs and in the eyes of the law and most other people you are not.

Its a scam orchestrated by animal rights.

Work with one side and tell em how hybrids suck and how any one breeding them is horrid. Work with hybrid breeders and tell them how much purebred breeders suck.

Work with hobby breeders and tell them how anyone who looks like they breed for profit suck and work with commercial breeders to tell them how hobby breeders who breed for the better ment of the breed and not profit suck. Chuck in a couple of professors, TV gardeners and politicians and no one gets to breed dogs and every one fights each other until its a case of one group riding over all things welfare based with canines just has been recommeded by the Bateman report. Thats one umbrella group who gets to say what breed standards can and cant be left as they are and what breeds can and cant be bred, what COI we use, what we can and cant mate and everything else breeders might think of doing which they have decided isnt good for the dogs.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Steve

[Steve]

What I'm hearing in this thread is that canine councils, the governing bodies who are meant to protect and police registered breeders, are not doing their job. This is perplexing to me because I would assume council members are themselves registered breeders with the knowledge and experience to know what they are talking about. Is this not the case? If it isn't, shouldn't well known, ethical registered breeders who have influence in the dog community be board members? Or is it too difficult/time consuming/political/expensive etc. to do this?

Yes thats how it looks. Not that simple. There are many things which impact here and a public forum isnt the place to chat about them.

Suffice to say assuming people who are involved in the dog world will put the dogs first over numerous other things is folly.

[asal]

n sadly point out my experience just proves to those who think they are "special" that such things as happened to me only occur because i "deserved it"

all you who stupidly, yes STUPIDLY think that adhering to ANY...."CODE OF ETHICS"

re-read this quote from the Minister for Agriculture, Richard Amery, its from a letter dated 14 june 2001

"If you conduct your business as outlined in the Code of Practice for dog breeding establishments you will have nothing to fear from further visits from RSPCA inspectors."

he sent me the booklet.

sooo what does that mean. BLOODY NOTHING FOLKS

REMEMBER THIS HAPPEND TO ME 11 years ago. long before the new u beat ones now comming in.

"one other breeder" send the dogs of war.

the dogs of war took my dog despite the fact i was in complete compliance with the said booklet enclosed. proof surely when they failed to find anything at all chargable?

but they still held my dog captive for 13 days, billed me to the max as they are entitled to by law.

LIED to the said Minister for Agriculture as to the curcumstances that caused them to decide to steal my dog, N yes i have PROOF OF SAID LIES.

ie. "Without proper records of your own or your veterianian, showing that String was under veterinary care, the inspectors could only rely on their own judgement. In this case Inspector Donnelly decided that Stringly's best interestst would be served by a proper veterinary examination and diagnostic workup at the RSPCA shelter."

since at no time did the said inspector speak to my vet priot to the theft of the dog.

even after taking the dog he did not avail himself to call my vet, whose name, number and address he had been given two weeks prior to the theft of the dog. and theft is was. since the escuse given never happend prior to said theft.

except it cant be called theft, because the law is such that "special constables" only have to "form the opinion" the dog should be seized.

why he felt it necessary to lie to the minister for agriculture i cannout guess, since the law gave him the right to take him regardless of any compliance with the so called piece of paper called "Code of Practice for dog breeding establishments "

so u see i know from experience its a worthless piece of paper save perhaps for emergency use for toileting purposes.

hide behind it all u wish.

but dont expect to find any of your dogs left if some "special constable" decides to "form the opinon" to take one or all and bill you for the days weeks or months they decide to keep them.

n now if i understand righly you will have to pay upfront or sign all ownership rights to them over to said seizing organisation, so i see absoultely no reason for any one to feel safe ever again now.

ho, said inspector did finally speak to my vet, 3 days after they had my dog, and guess what? (and he didnt call my vet, my vet called them, every single day until he was finally permitted to speak to the seizing constable, BUT NVER IN ALL 13 DAYS WAS HE PERMITTED TO SPEAK TO THE VET CHOPPING UP MY DOG, WHO HAD ALREADY OVER VACCINATED A DOG ALREADY VACCINATED, FLEA TREATED A DOG ALREADY FLEA TREATED 48 HRS PRIOR TOSEIZURE SO A DOUBLE DOSE OF BOTH COULD HAVE CRASHED HIM, SINCE HE ONLY WEIGHED 1.2 KG, so dont tell me the actual well being of the dog was on the radar, specially since he was returned 13 days later suffering pnemonia n the now president of the veterinary association didnt even notice?) If your vet does not have it written in his records that your dog has nothing wrong with it WRITTEN IN PEN N INK then said vets oral word is inadmissable (well according to what they told the minister for agriculture?. get your head around that one kids.

the only vets who do so when they see your dog, have been through this fiasco before. and in the case of mine he went with me every time i had a litter vaccinated because he loved going out and always came so he was seen every time i visited my vet. so he had every reson to know exactly his state of health.

yet this information was given to richard amery AS THE REASON FOR SEIZING THE DOG.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO REST EASY OVER.

get your silly heads around the truth

they are answerable to no one, and they will tell the only minister they have to "report" too whatever they like. and i dont see where i can have em charged for perjury , can u?

Edited October 13, 2010 by asal

[asal]

What I'm hearing in this thread is that canine councils, the governing bodies who are meant to protect and police registered breeders, are not doing their job. This is perplexing to me because I would assume council members are themselves registered breeders with the knowledge and experience to know what they are talking about. Is this not the case? If it isn't, shouldn't well known, ethical registered breeders who have influence in the dog community be board members? Or is it too difficult/time consuming/political/expensive etc. to do this?

Yes thats how it looks. Not that simple. There are many things which impact here and a public forum isnt the place to chat about them.

Suffice to say assuming people who are involved in the dog world will put the dogs first over numerous other things is folly.

so true, n one of the reasons is fellow breeders, as pointed out in the letter i received, use these "things" (special constables) to eliminate fellow breeders

cute lot

I really cant go on warning you about this.

it just upsets me so im so sick every time i repeat it, just brings it all back, n the realisation it could happen all over again. If u have an animal, any animal. we have absoultely no one, no where to appeal when your attacked.

when will u lot realise this????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Edited October 13, 2010 by asal

[asal]

NEVER, is my suspicion.

long as you keep focusing on the eliminating of "puppy farmers" your blinkers keep you from admitting or realising to the government and its minions, your all tarred by the same brush

Edited October 13, 2010 by asal

[asal]

n before u finish deluding yourself those in control of the rspca are better people now.

remember the now ceo of rspca nsw Steve Coleman?

when I opened my dogs nsw journal and saw that smiling face with the cute n fluffy, dropped it like a hot potato.

that was the face of the smiling assassion who send all marion alcorns arabians into the ring at mcgraths hill after telling all present, that "only the doggers are allowed to bid on these horses"

the same smiling assassion who told marion alcorn, he would "find good homes" for them if she signed them over to the RSPCA.

not hersay. I was with marion when she was told that and signed them over... I WAS AT MCGRATHS HILL, TO SEE AND HEAR THAT MONSTER.

that was prior to my own learning curve.. i didnt know the name of the red haired monster, till i opened my journal that day.

yes nice lot in charge of the care of all creatures great and small.

james herriot would be apalled if he knew how twisted a lot are using his words now. to make the stupid, oops gullable, general public feel all warm m fuzzy

Edited October 13, 2010 by asal

[asal]

someone, well?

can anyone explain to me how sending ten foals and their mothers, all quiet as, most of the mums broken in already.

how being sold to the doggers could ever be construed as having found them "good homes"??

[oakway]

someone, well?

can anyone explain to me how sending ten foals and their mothers, all quiet as, most of the mums broken in already.

how being sold to the doggers could ever be construed as having found them "good homes"??

I don't doubt you in the least.

[asal]

fogot to add after she signed them over, that was a wednesday. mm or tuesday, sorry too long ago to remember which of the two it was now.

both I and a number of her friends phoned every day to ask to buy them. to be told every single time that "they were not available for sale yet"

when i rang the saturday morning and told the same rubbish, i told the girl i knew this was a lie. that i was present when they were signed over the previous week and KNEW THEY ARE NOW AVAIALBLE.

she then said.. "HO well i suppose it cant hurt. they went to mcgraths hill this morning"

i franticly phoned all those interested in rescueing these horses and arrived there myself, just in time to watch that creature walk into the ring and make his speech.

thereby banning me and anyone else who knew them from bidding.

can u imagine how it felt watching helplessly as they were knocked down for slaughter..

never realising then my turn, at their hands was comming a few years later, luckily at least theres something to be said for not knowing what lays in store.

but how to cope now i know this is how they operate is my problem

Edited October 13, 2010 by asal

[asal]

what happened to judy guard too has nothing to do with the dogs welfare n everything to do with income generation.

n these new laws are going to make this even more for em

heck the vet put down the poor dog that she got her hands on before sending em in to seize the rest of judys dogs, does that sound like the welfare of the dog counts?

[oakway]

What I want to know is .....................

Where do I go to, to help.

What do I have to do personally to help the situation the dog world finds it's self in.

Sitting here typing is not helping.

Someone give me some direction please.

If it means putting my hand in my pocket you will have to forget my help, because a pension does not allow it.

Or is that the root of the matter ? even collectively does anyone have the money to fight the situation.

[asal]

What I want to know is .....................

Where do I go to, to help.

What do I have to do personally to help the situation the dog world finds it's self in.

Sitting here typing is not helping.

Someone give me some direction please.

If it means putting my hand in my pocket you will have to forget my help, because a pension does not allow it.

Or is that the root of the matter ? even collectively does anyone have the money to fight the situation.

you and i both. writing to the Minister for Agriculture got me nowhere. when i replied to that infamous letter pointing out he was in fact relying on purjured information he solved the delima by not replying to any letters from that point on.

so politicions dont want to know

when its not to their liking

[toy dog]

Ring up and ask your shire what you have to do to run a business from home via environmental department - not companion animals department.

do i ring up the same shire that also houses 14 puppy farms in our region? we've had a permit with them for the last 26 years to house showdogs, we have a showdog permit i.e. dogs registered with DOGSVICTORIA.

i asked the question when it was stated how many farms in our region, does this include registered breeders? the answer was no it does not include registered breeders. so we in this shire at least we are being exempt from being treated like the animal businesses in this region. This region as i've said many times before is puppy farm central and supplies the rest of the country.

You are not special, you are not able to have more rights than someone who breeds cross bred dogs, no amount of promoting purebreds or registered breeders is going to do a single thing to help the fact that environmental laws say what you can and cant do on your property and if they allow you to do it how thats going to be done.

this shire does not check any people with permits no one came near us when our permit was granted we did not have to comply with anything, they did check our immediate neighbors and some did even know we had dogs. so if they didn't check us like they are supposed to imagine the large farms in the area? they get away with no checking as the shire stated themselves at the RSPCA puppy forum.

No one cares if you have 5 chis or 50 great danes .So far you have been able to breed dogs from your property and only have to worry about whether you comply with companion animal laws.

not in wellington shire. don't know if its a good or bad thing. and i think you will find that most shires are like this, the country ones they are flat strapped to find help and don't have specific staff to inspect. they only have 2 people doing this for 14 farms, i did ring the DPI to ask if they inspect these properties to get told that they don't have funding to do this and they just assist councils and if they need help then they might assign inspectors but they rarily do. its left up to the councils who don't inspect as we found out about wellington shire with their 14 farms, remember i said, all the sheets were blank for 5 years, 5 years of records these farms were to keep there was nothing on them! the 2 people in this shire that are to inspect farms also double as traffic wardens. The council did try and shut down a farm or farms its not clear but the VCAT keeps ruling them back in again, i see another one went to court only to be told to get rid of half their animals some were seized by RSPCA because they were in appauling condition 150 dogs were left on the property. VCAT has a habit of favouring the farmers and leave them to remain open to breed up more dogs in misery when in actual fact the law states that if they violate the code which they have on a number of accounts, council can shut them down permanently when the council try to do that, the VCAT rule they can stay open.

the laws are inadequate and very ridiculous! so the farmers go through loopholes so more laws aint gona do jack shit for those dogs stuck on farms living like battery hens.

5 for unregistered and 10 for registered because council havent been policing environmental laws until there has been a complaint but what you are asking for is for the RSPCA to police these laws and to be able check you out with out a complaint to be sure you are complying with them. That you have your DA and your concrete pens and quarantine areas - NO MATTER WHAT YOU BREED OR HOW MANY YOU OWN.

i really don't agree with tweaking the current laws we have which are failing the dogs and having more laws, i think its stupid the farmers will find ways of getting around it anyway and still there'll be thousands of dogs from these farms saturating our pounds. What the PUBLIC is asking for not registered breeders or anyone else is the shutting down of these places because we have enough animals trying to find homes in shelters society has no need to breed up more, and also the PUBLIC are asking for banning of sales of dogs and cats in petshops because this is where these farms 95% of the time are getting rid of their stock. what that has to do with people like us under a showdog permit i don't know. as far a i am concerned it has nothing to do with us. this is what the public want.

whats wrong with a bit of education about mixed breed pups from these farms not being health tested adn having a bit more knowledge breeding dogs yourselves to add to the debate? and at the same time encouraging people firstly to go to shelters to get a pet and if they want a pure bred to go to a registered breeder? whats wrong with telling people about non-shedding and shedding coming from a breeders persepctive as many of the public don't know the aspects of grooming and the staff at petshops don't know either. no one knows the only people that know is experienced breeders.

i have many people through my website, face book or what have you, asking me questions about where to get their next pet, so whats wrong with helping them out a bit sharing my knowledge and steering them in the right direction?

then they tell someone else who tells someone else adn they might read the info on the internet using all medias just like the designer dog people (??) have done, fight fire with fire.

to many registered breeders jsut sit back and yes, think they are better and don't share any information, promote promote promote its in our hands.

not to keep quoting doom and there's nothing we can do. there's plenty we can do....without donating heaps of money, i don't donate money i feel like i am doing something and it feels good to talk to the public about the benefits of our pedigree dogs.

it feels good to write letters to the premier, MP's, anyone that will listen about the problems about breeding these mixed breeds for money alone no other purpose as opposed to a well bred socialised pedigree dog.

in the eyes of the law yes we are no better but that can be changed if people would just open up their mouths once in a while and have positive stuff coming out of it.

Your push to clean up puppy farmers and introduce tougher laws is based on your belief that everyone thinks you are better than and different to any one else because you breed registered dogs and in the eyes of the law and most other people you are not.

this is the problem they don't think anything, i get heaps of enquiries about where to get a puppy from so you are wrong there, most people don't know about ETHICAL REPUTABLE registered breeders, so thats when you advise there are some good breeders there are bad registered breeders you have to learn the difference adn you give them the tools to learn the difference don't you.

all this is in my website. i have had many visitors over the years and i have members of the public wanting help so i help them. i feel like i am doing something positive.

Work with hybrid breeders and tell them how much purebred breeders suck.

why would you want to do this being a registered breeder?????? i dont' understand where you are coming from there.

Work with hobby breeders and tell them how anyone who looks like they breed for profit suck and work with commercial breeders to tell them how hobby breeders who breed for the better ment of the breed and not profit suck. Chuck in a couple of professors, TV gardeners and politicians and no one gets to breed dogs and every one fights each other until its a case of one group riding over all things welfare based with canines just has been recommeded by the Bateman report. Thats one umbrella group who gets to say what breed standards can and cant be left as they are and what breeds can and cant be bred, what COI we use, what we can and cant mate and everything else breeders might think of doing which they have decided isnt good for the dogs.

there is no distinction between our organisation and pet breeders in some shires is there? thats when the residents that are ANKC breeders/exhibitors must stand up and be counted then. i did move to a shire that didn't recognise DOGSVIC at all, so i write them a letter and they responded by saying its up to DOGSVIC to push for its members.

what is causing all this big caffuffle in our communities some of the people in it who are breeding their little pet mixed breed dogs for pure profit without the welfare of their dogs without testing this is what is causing the filling up of our shelters. This is how i see it anyway. Thats the problem organisations like that are using their political gains or what not, to talk in the ears of peple in power because people in power have no idea they don't know any better, about anything and they dont want to have an idea. who speaks the loudest is based on who has the money. so far they are not listening to what the voters want. i had a long conversation (half an hour) about the pros and cons of pedigree dogs versus puppy factory mixed breeds dogs and in the end the guy said he only ever goes to a breeder for his puppies i said what sort of breeder, he said, DOGSVIC breeder. or a shelter, he will not go to a petshop, why not i said, because they usually come from a farm. lol meanwhile he quoted what all the councillors and a mayor has quoted direct from these farmers and that is, there is a market for these dogs so why not. i responded by saying there is a market for any type of dog but meanwhile we are killing quarter of a million dogs in the shelters.

we had a nice conversation that ended well with the guy thinking about what i said, i've had similar conversations with lots of people through work and now people are coming up saying its bad to buy a pup in a petshop so the message is geting through down here anyway.

we've had big billboards in Melbourne from RSPCA across the whole city telling ppl not to buy from petshops ad now people are actuall quoting it wanting to shut these farms down.

my mother and i from the day dot, before the animal libbers came in to give us more media coverage, were trying to do something about the heaps of dog farmers who advertised in the local rag for years and years. puppies wanted, hundreds of adverts for mixed breed puppies we knew all this was coming. push out the old pedigree dog, in with the designer dog, out with the pedigree.

so should we just sit there and think we have been beaten. i sure as hell aint gona give up......i refuse to just sit there and do nothing. anythign is better than just sitting there. i mean some think the animal libbers are bad but at least they've highlighted these farms in our community the farms we always knew were there. put up signs they did, we'd follow them around take them down, they'd put them back up. lol we'll never give up and ofcourse poor old mum is still writing to the wellington shire telling them to stop supporting this mass producing of our dogs. poor old mum. she's like me we will never give up promoting our pedigrees even if all the cards are stacked against us Steve.

i think its good that the VCA has managed to get in the ears of the govt as pushed by its own members. thats something because the average person like us, has no hope of ever getting these politicians to listen. as they said, the government need to listen to the people that know how to breed dogs and dealt with genetics in dogs for years (the organisation and its members) not groups that only deal with pet issues not the breeding and genetics side.

Edited October 14, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

The new laws which are on the table are about who will police the laws which are already there - NOT JUST COMPANION ANIMALS LAWS but also laws which pertain to environment and planning . Do you understand that no matter what you think will be the exemptions via being a registered breeder that they dont mean jack shit as soon as enviromental laws cut in.

steve are you talking about the same laws from RSPCA? asking for the shutting down of puppy farms and banning sales of dogs and cats in shops is this the same as giving more rights to RSPCA to place more laws out there? i dont' think so myself. i don't agree with what RSPCA are saying putting more laws in place. no. i think they should leave it the way it is actually. the way it is now these farms are left to the councils to police and they aint policing them at all, now if we had no puppy farms at all there'd be nothing to police now would there. there'd be no need for animal groups made up of concerned joe and jane public BTW, to go into these farms and seize the dogs to protect them.

i think RSPCA are mad to try to make up laws to stop backyard breeders, in my opinion they'll never do it, we'd have to stop being a free country we'd have to go to communism for them to come in by law and do what they want to do. NO WAY. and to blanket us all in the same boat.

Your push to clean up puppy farmers and introduce tougher laws is based on your belief that everyone thinks you are better than and different to any one else because you breed registered dogs and in the eyes of the law and most other people you are not.

see thats the thing too, you know and i know, that a reputable ethical breeder does not make money if breeding dogs the right way, most of the time we run at a loss. and i have records to prove this. i keep all my veterinary receipts, thousands upon thousands of dollars to prove that its not a money making business but in the eyes of the law and people that dont' know any better we sell our dogs for alot of money so we must be making money, i hear this every day from ordinary people, you sell dogs for $1000 don't tell me you don't make any money they say! but they never stop to consider the expense of using the stud, pedigree papers, show entries, vet fees esp. if you have a C-S, thousands of dollars gone there and the list goes on until you are left with ZERO.

so the difference between peple like us and people like them is we aren't in it for profit we are in it for other reasons, they are in it for a business and if they checked they'd be able to see, but they aren't checking they are just assuming because they dont' know any better and they're not being pulled up by anyone, no one is defending.

its like poor kylie who got her chi stolen and the article on the net with the comments below, there were alot of people brandishing showing dogs and registered breeders as bad people until a whole heap of registered breeders got on there explained some things to the public what we are about. some of them got an education.

there's not enough out there about what we really do so authorities like RSPCA, MP's, politicians just put us in the same group as backyarders and puppy farmers then. we all know its not like that.

then there is the ones that quote from PDE......more bad publicity.

but still one by one i will sit there and explain to whoever will listen.

so what do we do Steve, what are you saying we do? any solutions? if its no good all the suggestions i've put up do we just sit there and roll over and die?

join MDBA? or do we get together and talk to our controlling state body, who is asking for solutions from members, i wonder how many have actually completed their online survey?

puppy farmers are a big problem in our society.

[oakway]

On thing this has brought into the daylight is that unless we stand on a united front we are not going to get anywhere.

Unless we have the financial backing from one of the media groups to push our case I can see all our efforts going down the drain.

[Steve]

Ring up and ask your shire what you have to do to run a business from home via environmental department - not companion animals department.

do i ring up the same shire that also houses 14 puppy farms in our region? we've had a permit with them for the last 26 years to house showdogs, we have a showdog permit i.e. dogs registered with DOGSVICTORIA.

i asked the question when it was stated how many farms in our region, does this include registered breeders? the answer was no it does not include registered breeders. so we in this shire at least we are being exempt from being treated like the animal businesses in this region. This region as i've said many times before is puppy farm central and supplies the rest of the country.

You are not special, you are not able to have more rights than someone who breeds cross bred dogs, no amount of promoting purebreds or registered breeders is going to do a single thing to help the fact that environmental laws say what you can and cant do on your property and if they allow you to do it how thats going to be done.

this shire does not check any people with permits no one came near us when our permit was granted we did not have to comply with anything, they did check our immediate neighbors and some did even know we had dogs. so if they didn't check us like they are supposed to imagine the large farms in the area? they get away with no checking as the shire stated themselves at the RSPCA puppy forum.

No one cares if you have 5 chis or 50 great danes .So far you have been able to breed dogs from your property and only have to worry about whether you comply with companion animal laws.

not in wellington shire. don't know if its a good or bad thing. and i think you will find that most shires are like this, the country ones they are flat strapped to find help and don't have specific staff to inspect. they only have 2 people doing this for 14 farms, i did ring the DPI to ask if they inspect these properties to get told that they don't have funding to do this and they just assist councils and if they need help then they might assign inspectors but they rarily do. its left up to the councils who don't inspect as we found out about wellington shire with their 14 farms, remember i said, all the sheets were blank for 5 years, 5 years of records these farms were to keep there was nothing on them! the 2 people in this shire that are to inspect farms also double as traffic wardens. The council did try and shut down a farm or farms its not clear but the VCAT keeps ruling them back in again, i see another one went to court only to be told to get rid of half their animals some were seized by RSPCA because they were in appauling condition 150 dogs were left on the property. VCAT has a habit of favouring the farmers and leave them to remain open to breed up more dogs in misery when in actual fact the law states that if they violate the code which they have on a number of accounts, council can shut them down permanently when the council try to do that, the VCAT rule they can stay open.

the laws are inadequate and very ridiculous! so the farmers go through loopholes so more laws aint gona do jack shit for those dogs stuck on farms living like battery hens.

5 for unregistered and 10 for registered because council havent been policing environmental laws until there has been a complaint but what you are asking for is for the RSPCA to police these laws and to be able check you out with out a complaint to be sure you are complying with them. That you have your DA and your concrete pens and quarantine areas - NO MATTER WHAT YOU BREED OR HOW MANY YOU OWN.

i really don't agree with tweaking the current laws we have which are failing the dogs and having more laws, i think its stupid the farmers will find ways of getting around it anyway and still there'll be thousands of dogs from these farms saturating our pounds. What the PUBLIC is asking for not registered breeders or anyone else is the shutting down of these places because we have enough animals trying to find homes in shelters society has no need to breed up more, and also the PUBLIC are asking for banning of sales of dogs and cats in petshops because this is where these farms 95% of the time are getting rid of their stock. what that has to do with people like us under a showdog permit i don't know. as far a i am concerned it has nothing to do with us. this is what the public want.

whats wrong with a bit of education about mixed breed pups from these farms not being health tested adn having a bit more knowledge breeding dogs yourselves to add to the debate? and at the same time encouraging people firstly to go to shelters to get a pet and if they want a pure bred to go to a registered breeder? whats wrong with telling people about non-shedding and shedding coming from a breeders persepctive as many of the public don't know the aspects of grooming and the staff at petshops don't know either. no one knows the only people that know is experienced breeders.

i have many people through my website, face book or what have you, asking me questions about where to get their next pet, so whats wrong with helping them out a bit sharing my knowledge and steering them in the right direction?

then they tell someone else who tells someone else adn they might read the info on the internet using all medias just like the designer dog people (??) have done, fight fire with fire.

to many registered breeders jsut sit back and yes, think they are better and don't share any information, promote promote promote its in our hands.

not to keep quoting doom and there's nothing we can do. there's plenty we can do....without donating heaps of money, i don't donate money i feel like i am doing something and it feels good to talk to the public about the benefits of our pedigree dogs.

it feels good to write letters to the premier, MP's, anyone that will listen about the problems about breeding these mixed breeds for money alone no other purpose as opposed to a well bred socialised pedigree dog.

in the eyes of the law yes we are no better but that can be changed if people would just open up their mouths once in a while and have positive stuff coming out of it.

Your push to clean up puppy farmers and introduce tougher laws is based on your belief that everyone thinks you are better than and different to any one else because you breed registered dogs and in the eyes of the law and most other people you are not.

this is the problem they don't think anything, i get heaps of enquiries about where to get a puppy from so you are wrong there, most people don't know about ETHICAL REPUTABLE registered breeders, so thats when you advise there are some good breeders there are bad registered breeders you have to learn the difference adn you give them the tools to learn the difference don't you.

all this is in my website. i have had many visitors over the years and i have members of the public wanting help so i help them. i feel like i am doing something positive.

Work with hybrid breeders and tell them how much purebred breeders suck.

why would you want to do this being a registered breeder?????? i dont' understand where you are coming from there.

Work with hobby breeders and tell them how anyone who looks like they breed for profit suck and work with commercial breeders to tell them how hobby breeders who breed for the better ment of the breed and not profit suck. Chuck in a couple of professors, TV gardeners and politicians and no one gets to breed dogs and every one fights each other until its a case of one group riding over all things welfare based with canines just has been recommeded by the Bateman report. Thats one umbrella group who gets to say what breed standards can and cant be left as they are and what breeds can and cant be bred, what COI we use, what we can and cant mate and everything else breeders might think of doing which they have decided isnt good for the dogs.

there is no distinction between our organisation and pet breeders in some shires is there? thats when the residents that are ANKC breeders/exhibitors must stand up and be counted then. i did move to a shire that didn't recognise DOGSVIC at all, so i write them a letter and they responded by saying its up to DOGSVIC to push for its members.

what is causing all this big caffuffle in our communities some of the people in it who are breeding their little pet mixed breed dogs for pure profit without the welfare of their dogs without testing this is what is causing the filling up of our shelters. This is how i see it anyway. Thats the problem organisations like that are using their political gains or what not, to talk in the ears of peple in power because people in power have no idea they don't know any better, about anything and they dont want to have an idea. who speaks the loudest is based on who has the money. so far they are not listening to what the voters want. i had a long conversation (half an hour) about the pros and cons of pedigree dogs versus puppy factory mixed breeds dogs and in the end the guy said he only ever goes to a breeder for his puppies i said what sort of breeder, he said, DOGSVIC breeder. or a shelter, he will not go to a petshop, why not i said, because they usually come from a farm. lol meanwhile he quoted what all the councillors and a mayor has quoted direct from these farmers and that is, there is a market for these dogs so why not. i responded by saying there is a market for any type of dog but meanwhile we are killing quarter of a million dogs in the shelters.

we had a nice conversation that ended well with the guy thinking about what i said, i've had similar conversations with lots of people through work and now people are coming up saying its bad to buy a pup in a petshop so the message is geting through down here anyway.

we've had big billboards in Melbourne from RSPCA across the whole city telling ppl not to buy from petshops ad now people are actuall quoting it wanting to shut these farms down.

my mother and i from the day dot, before the animal libbers came in to give us more media coverage, were trying to do something about the heaps of dog farmers who advertised in the local rag for years and years. puppies wanted, hundreds of adverts for mixed breed puppies we knew all this was coming. push out the old pedigree dog, in with the designer dog, out with the pedigree.

so should we just sit there and think we have been beaten. i sure as hell aint gona give up......i refuse to just sit there and do nothing. anythign is better than just sitting there. i mean some think the animal libbers are bad but at least they've highlighted these farms in our community the farms we always knew were there. put up signs they did, we'd follow them around take them down, they'd put them back up. lol we'll never give up and ofcourse poor old mum is still writing to the wellington shire telling them to stop supporting this mass producing of our dogs. poor old mum. she's like me we will never give up promoting our pedigrees even if all the cards are stacked against us Steve.

i think its good that the VCA has managed to get in the ears of the govt as pushed by its own members. thats something because the average person like us, has no hope of ever getting these politicians to listen. as they said, the government need to listen to the people that know how to breed dogs and dealt with genetics in dogs for years (the organisation and its members) not groups that only deal with pet issues not the breeding and genetics side.

The animal libbers are bad and the fact that any breeder is sucked in by them and agreeing with anything they do is crazy and in all honesty very disappointing.

In case you havent noticed the people who are telling governments and the people they are listening to about breeding dogs are people who think purebred dogs are unhealthy and that purebred breeders are pond scum.While ever you have the right to breed and promote your dogs everyone else does too and when you actively seek to stop them doing that the only outcome can be you are stopped too. That is a fact and nothing you can say will ever change that in this country.It amazes me that its so hard to grasp.

[asal]

just as i tried to explain, if you eliminate "backyard breeders" you are backing eliminating yourself. EVERYONE, has a backyard. be it 1 mtr square or 100 miles square.. .... n look where its got moi

your beginning to sound a little like what i was thinking 20 years ago ?

Edited October 14, 2010 by asal

[asal]

thems was deaf then, would be nice to think the wax is running out and freeing up their ears, but i dont hold out a lot of hope.

n look where its got me... raving,,, ranting....nn weird

please do be careful. i would hate to see u straightjacketed beside moi

no its the panic buttons confusing me.

no way your in that danger.

apologies for even thinking it

Edited October 14, 2010 by asal

[toy dog]

The animal libbers are bad and the fact that any breeder is sucked in by them and agreeing with anything they do is crazy and in all honesty very disappointing.

In case you havent noticed the people who are telling governments and the people they are listening to about breeding dogs are people who think purebred dogs are unhealthy and that purebred breeders are pond scum.While ever you have the right to breed and promote your dogs everyone else does too and when you actively seek to stop them doing that the only outcome can be you are stopped too. That is a fact and nothing you can say will ever change that in this country.It amazes me that its so hard to grasp.

i dont' doubt what you are saying and like you guys i do read up on things i am not completely ignorant, but because some reg breeders might agree in principle of the PURE one action and not with anything being tacked onto it to abolish puppy farms and to stop sales in petshops of dogs doesn't mean that i or anyone else is following ALL of the stuff that they say with ALV or any other organisation, RSPCA are also saying the same things yet i dont' agree with the other stuff they are promoting against breeders no.

so what do we do go with petshops hold hands with them because it might be us next. do we turn a blind eye to these large bloody puppy farms where cruelty reigns supreme and we've had first hand experience of this being in the same area.

perhaps you are right one day it will be the thing of the past showing dogs/breeding dogs.....fair enough i hear you both. and i will take heed.

on its own and oscars law yes i agree and i know alot of other reg breeders that were at the rally and agree too, but it doesn't mean we follow to the letter anything ALV say or any group. it amazes me too that this message is not getting across either.

because reg breeders believe in abolishing puppy farms and pet shop sales of cats and dogs, i didn't think it has anything to do with registered breeders, in victoria here it is against our code of ethics to sell to a petshop and if you are any kind of breeder you wouldn't anyway, inthe eyes of the law yes we are one and the same but its up to us all to change this isn't it? or do we do nothing and just sit there?

they are mentioning reg breeders in this RSPCA proposed law, council include reg breeders like us even at a shire that supports these farms and has done so for years.

so yes sure, there is always goingto be anti purebred and its usually the ones that see us as a threat to their livelihoods the ones that want to make the dosh uninhibited like our lovely little friends the dog farmers aided by their partners in crime, unfortunately some petshops.

[toy dog]

thems was deaf then, would be nice to think the wax is running out and freeing up their ears, but i dont hold out a lot of hope.

n look where its got me... raving,,, ranting....nn weird

please do be careful. i would hate to see u straightjacketed beside moi

no its the panic buttons confusing me.

no way your in that danger.

apologies for even thinking it

im typing from a padded cell asal. not really....but it sure does feel like it sometimes.