Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[oakway]

This thread makes me feel sick and sad and angry

I think one point everyone is missing is that the RSPCA already have the legislation and laws in place to shut down puppy farms, the simple fact is they don't want to. Puppy farms and bybs provide them with the raw commodities they need to make money both through donations and adoptions, ANKC breeders do not. Take a visit to your local shelter how many purebred registered dogs are there, how many crossbreds or byb staffy/mastiff crosses are there?? Puppy farms and BYBs provide the RSPCA with an income stream, registered, ethical breeders do not. It is registered breeders they will target not puppy farms

The RSCPA already have the means to seize any dog from anyone, anytime, anywhere. It could be the most healthy, happy dog ever, it doesn't matter if you a breeder or not, the laws allow them to do whatever they please to that dog and IF they return it to you to charge you whatever they want and you have no right of recourse or complaint, full stop and you want to give them more power . Saying if you do the right thing you won't have a problem is the biggest load of crock I have ever heard. They can sieze anyones dog for NO reason whatsoever.

The RSPCA have jumped on your bandwagon (for want of a better word - believe me I abhor puppy farms and would happily be thrown into jail to stop even one), they have taken the steering wheel and will take this where they want it to go, you are just passengers now *shakes head* how very sad :D for dogs everywhere

Thank you Sno Paws from the bottom of my heart.

[puggy_puggy]

The rally was not organised by Animal Liberation. Before making wild assumptions contact Oscar's Law to get your facts straight.

www.oscarslaw.org

I would be interested to know what those against Oscar's Law have as a solution to puppy factories, pet shop sales and unresponsible pet ownership. And what steps they are taking to make these solutions more then just words on a computer screen.

Edited to add.... RSPCA do not have the power to go and seize dogs and shut down puppy farms. Why do you think in their latest raid here in Victoria they are still working on the puppy factory owner surrendering more dogs. If they seize a dog that dog must sit at the shelter untill the matter is heard in court. If the RSPCA loses the court case the dog goes back to the puppy farmer.

As for purebreds not ending up in rescue we have a waiting list a mile long for pure pugs to come into our foster care program. I can tell you that at least another pure bred rescue group is in exaclty the same situation as us. I also have a pile of canine council pedigree papers sitting in the rescue pugs files.

Edited September 22, 2010 by puggy_puggy

[Cosmolo]

The puppy factories are inspected regularly by local councils- not RSPCA. Someone has to report cruelty for the RSPCA to act- which means they have to see it. The puppy farmers aren't idiots- they don't often show the general public through the hell hole elements of their property.

[megan_]

The puppy factories are inspected regularly by local councils- not RSPCA. Someone has to report cruelty for the RSPCA to act- which means they have to see it. The puppy farmers aren't idiots- they don't often show the general public through the hell hole elements of their property.

yes - in Victoria someone has to actually witness the abuse before the RSPCA can act. That is the law. I know this because I reported my neighbour once - they needed me to say that I could see that the dogs had not shelter, not just that I believed they didn't.

Again, the question goes unaswered. What is the alternative?

[Lhok]

I am not a breeder of dogs

At the time when I first read about the rally I thought it was a great thing (and it is a good thing people are getting it into the public forum) however after the wave of emotion calmed down I looked at the whole thing logically and I didn't like what I was seeing for the future of dogs in the future.

It is all good to get emotion behind a cause but if you don't have logic and fore sight for the future, the seeds you sow today can be your demise in the future. I personally think the first step would be ban the sale of live animals from pet shops, like they have in some of the states in America because the whole thing is people will do whatever they want if they know it will get them money.

--Lhok

O.K. so we ban the sale of live animals in pet shops - what then?

People will still be breeding lots of dogs, people will still be buying lots of dogs, people will get more money for what they breed because there is no middle man. No middle man to filter out the rotten operators and act as a buffer between rotten breeders and the new owners. What then?

Like everything you have to take small steps to fix the problem and assess how the plan is going then change to suit what crops up. To do so you have to start somewhere, to me the most obvious is to ban the live sale of animals in pet shops. Then people will have to look at where they will get there dog from. In most of the states that have banned the live sale of dogs in pet shops the growing trend was to get their animal from a shelter. In one of the news articles I read that Siks posted they have even started Boutigue shelters to give customers a piece of mind while saving animals from being put to sleep.

However damned if you do damned if you don't

--Lhok

[puggy_puggy]

RSPCA does not own the Oscar's Law legislation Oscar's Law does.

Again if you have any questions please contact Oscar's Law.

Edited September 22, 2010 by puggy_puggy

[Erny]

Steve what do you advocate? What is the MDBA's position on all of these issues and what action do they believe should be taken if any? I am trying to get past the accusations and conspiracy theories (true or not) to get to what everyone would like to see done INSTEAD.

ETA i agree with schnauzer- i believe every dog has the right to a happy life.

This puts an extra spin on things, but I think our dogs are 'safer' on many different levels by not having "rights" and instead being legally owned as "property". When the law assigns our animals with "rights" they will begin to put voices to them and it won't be our voices they'll be imposing, it will be the voices of the "authorities".

I would re-word the above by saying that "every dog-owner has an obligation to provide their dog with the mental and physical care a dog needs". It might seem as though I am splitting hairs, but I think it makes a huge difference.

As for rotten puppy farms - I think pushing "public awareness" is the way to go and from that aspect, the recent rally was a good start. The story of Leo would be a good one of many to put out there.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Erny

[SnoPaws]

This thread makes me feel sick and sad and angry

I think one point everyone is missing is that the RSPCA already have the legislation and laws in place to shut down puppy farms, the simple fact is they don't want to. Puppy farms and bybs provide them with the raw commodities they need to make money both through donations and adoptions, ANKC breeders do not. Take a visit to your local shelter how many purebred registered dogs are there, how many crossbreds or byb staffy/mastiff crosses are there?? Puppy farms and BYBs provide the RSPCA with an income stream, registered, ethical breeders do not. It is registered breeders they will target not puppy farms

The RSCPA already have the means to seize any dog from anyone, anytime, anywhere. It could be the most healthy, happy dog ever, it doesn't matter if you a breeder or not, the laws allow them to do whatever they please to that dog and IF they return it to you to charge you whatever they want and you have no right of recourse or complaint, full stop and you want to give them more power ;) . Saying if you do the right thing you won't have a problem is the biggest load of crock I have ever heard. They can sieze anyones dog for NO reason whatsoever.

The RSPCA have jumped on your bandwagon (for want of a better word - believe me I abhor puppy farms and would happily be thrown into jail to stop even one), they have taken the steering wheel and will take this where they want it to go, you are just passengers now *shakes head* how very sad for dogs everywhere

And ............................................ before anyone attacks me (which has probably happened I am still on page 26 ) I am not attacking anyone who attended the rally. I support Oscars Law in its raw form and the passion, concern and compassion shown by those who attended, makes me proud to be human and want to kiss em but ............................................ I just really don't think the ramifications of pushing for tougher laws have been thought through properly

[Jed]

I am not a breeder of dogs

At the time when I first read about the rally I thought it was a great thing (and it is a good thing people are getting it into the public forum) however after the wave of emotion calmed down I looked at the whole thing logically and I didn't like what I was seeing for the future of dogs in the future.

It is all good to get emotion behind a cause but if you don't have logic and fore sight for the future, the seeds you sow today can be your demise in the future. I personally think the first step would be ban the sale of live animals from pet shops, like they have in some of the states in America because the whole thing is people will do whatever they want if they know it will get them money.

--Lhok

O.K. so we ban the sale of live animals in pet shops - what then?

People will still be breeding lots of dogs, people will still be buying lots of dogs, people will get more money for what they breed because there is no middle man. No middle man to filter out the rotten operators and act as a buffer between rotten breeders and the new owners. What then?

Instead of being totally negative, and via that, either allow puppy farms to prosper, or registered breeders to suffer, why not try to be positive for once - if ONE thing happened - that is - the sale of pups in pet shops was stopped, there would be a huge improvement.

You sell pups, you are aware of the time and effort involved in selling 100 pups. Imagine travelling 100 pups somewhere on a weekend and selling them? Even without any paper work, and very little dialogue with the buyer, no one would have time.

Also imagine 50 puppy farms each with 100 pups to sell on a weekend. Where are the buyers? At least 70% of puppy farm stock are sold through pet shops.

50% of the people who would buy from pet shops would not buy elsewhere. Preventing the sale of pups in shops would need to be accompanied by a media campaign to educate people to buy privately.

The RSPCA is keen on stopping puppy farms, they have lots of dosh, and the media smarts. Let them show how genuine they are by providing a media campaign for this

Then concerned proper breeders can stop worrying, and the RSPCA can use the existing animal husbandry laws to raid whatever puppy farms remain.

Look at it from the other side. I am surprised a breeder can't see the difficulties involved for puppy farms if the pet shop market was closed.

Attempt ONE THING at a time in a positive way.

For the good of the dogs.

[Guardienne]

This thread makes me feel sick and sad and angry

I think one point everyone is missing is that the RSPCA already have the legislation and laws in place to shut down puppy farms, the simple fact is they don't want to. Puppy farms and bybs provide them with the raw commodities they need to make money both through donations and adoptions, ANKC breeders do not. Take a visit to your local shelter how many purebred registered dogs are there, how many crossbreds or byb staffy/mastiff crosses are there?? Puppy farms and BYBs provide the RSPCA with an income stream, registered, ethical breeders do not. It is registered breeders they will target not puppy farms

The RSCPA already have the means to seize any dog from anyone, anytime, anywhere. It could be the most healthy, happy dog ever, it doesn't matter if you a breeder or not, the laws allow them to do whatever they please to that dog and IF they return it to you to charge you whatever they want and you have no right of recourse or complaint, full stop and you want to give them more power ;) . Saying if you do the right thing you won't have a problem is the biggest load of crock I have ever heard. They can sieze anyones dog for NO reason whatsoever.

The RSPCA have jumped on your bandwagon (for want of a better word - believe me I abhor puppy farms and would happily be thrown into jail to stop even one), they have taken the steering wheel and will take this where they want it to go, you are just passengers now *shakes head* how very sad for dogs everywhere

Thank you Sno Paws from the bottom of my heart.

This is the RSPCA's comments in relation to this. What are you thoughts?

The RSPCA is powerless to prosecute irresponsible breeders unless they are committing an offence under animal welfare legislation in the state they are operating in. Sadly, this means the situation has to be very bad before we can intervene.

[WreckitWhippet]

This thread makes me feel sick and sad and angry

I think one point everyone is missing is that the RSPCA already have the legislation and laws in place to shut down puppy farms, the simple fact is they don't want to. Puppy farms and bybs provide them with the raw commodities they need to make money both through donations and adoptions, ANKC breeders do not. Take a visit to your local shelter how many purebred registered dogs are there, how many crossbreds or byb staffy/mastiff crosses are there?? Puppy farms and BYBs provide the RSPCA with an income stream, registered, ethical breeders do not. It is registered breeders they will target not puppy farms

The RSCPA already have the means to seize any dog from anyone, anytime, anywhere. It could be the most healthy, happy dog ever, it doesn't matter if you a breeder or not, the laws allow them to do whatever they please to that dog and IF they return it to you to charge you whatever they want and you have no right of recourse or complaint, full stop and you want to give them more power ;) . Saying if you do the right thing you won't have a problem is the biggest load of crock I have ever heard. They can sieze anyones dog for NO reason whatsoever.

The RSPCA have jumped on your bandwagon (for want of a better word - believe me I abhor puppy farms and would happily be thrown into jail to stop even one), they have taken the steering wheel and will take this where they want it to go, you are just passengers now *shakes head* how very sad for dogs everywhere

Thank you Sno Paws from the bottom of my heart.

This is the RSPCA's comments in relation to this. What are you thoughts?

The RSPCA is powerless to prosecute irresponsible breeders unless they are committing an offence under animal welfare legislation in the state they are operating in. Sadly, this means the situation has to be very bad before we can intervene.

Unless they have an agenda and you can go for a row, for having a dog with worms...

It stinks to high heaven off bullshit excuses to me. The RSPCA have the power, they use it when it suits them and rakes in the $$$

[oakway]

I don't care if god himself presented Oscars Law.

The pathway to heaven is paved with good intentions.

The problem is that this Oscars Law is not what it seems to be.

The people that attended did so in good faith and had no idea that there were also supporting the eradication of the beginning of

ALL breeders.

What is written is fact, if you don't want to believe it, then don't.

What started as to bring the awareness of puppy farms to the public was infiltrated by others that want to see the eradication of dog breeding

and ALL breeders associated with it. FACT.

It did not matter if some of those breeders are ethical registered breeders with nothing but the dogs best interest at heart.

What registered breeders are now fighting for, is their very right to be able to breed, in fact their very existence as Registered Ethical Breeders.

All that Oscars Law has done is to throw the baby out with the bath water.

The sad part is that most of you can't see the infiltration of some organisations that used you to do their dirty work.

We as registered breeders are tied up in knots as to regulations and codes of ethics as to what we can and can't do.

Puppy farmers are not bound by any regulations health or otherwise.

We as registered breeders are and have to abide by them.

What shame it's not the public reading all this.

After reading all this I don't believe Oscars Law would have the support of the public they had last Saturday.

[Souff]

The puppy factories are inspected regularly by local councils- not RSPCA. Someone has to report cruelty

yes - in Victoria someone has to actually witness the abuse before the RSPCA can act. That is the law. I know this because I reported my neighbour once - they needed me to say that I could see that the dogs had not shelter, not just that I believed they didn't.

Again, the question goes unaswered. What is the alternative?

Megan,

Are you for real? If I phone the local police and say that I believe there is a car crash down the road, are they going to jump in the cars and come down to see?

If I phone the police and say that I think a man is murdering his wife over at No.23 they probably would not come down to check that out either.

Abuse of animals has to be witnessed before you can call the RSPCA.

Lord knows they get enough calls from people who are hell bent on revenge ... and they know this and they waste their time attending those premises very often.

Nobody wants to see puppy farms and cruelty to animals.

But as I have said before, under the Federal laws these are legitimate businesses and they have the right to trade, and this will not change. They will continue to trade.

You asked for an alternative.

Many alternatives have been put forward in this thread so the question has not gone unanswered at all.

I would encourage anything that makes puppy farms MORE VISIBLE, and more regulated, in an effort to help the dogs.

We have health laws re food outlets. Have you seen the recent exposes on fast food outlets .... all the rat dirt and cockies being shown on television?

NAME THEM AND SHAME THEM.

That is the name of the game and then people dont want to do business with these dirty rats. And it works!

With the puppy farms, NAME AND SHAME those pet shops that buy from the PUPPY FARMS!

NAME the firms that transport the dogs from the PUPPY FARMS to the PET SHOPS!

Keep the pressure on the politicians and the local councils to ban the sale of cats and dogs from pet shops in their areas.

Keep the pressure on the councils as to why they havent reported animal cruelty to the RSPCA.

Cut off the income supply to the puppy farmers and you will be doing serious damage to puppy mills.

More legislation via something like Oscars Law is not the way to go. There is plenty of legislation already and people need to make sure that it is USED PROPERLY.

As I keep saying, over and over, when you legislate against stuff like this, YOU DRIVE IT UNDERGROUND and the problem becomes very much harder to police and control.

Look at illegal drugs. How many years and deaths will it take for people to realise that banning the use of substances is NOT the answer.

Illegality just provides a very lucrative income stream for organised crime and makes it very, very difficult to police ..... and does sweet bugger all in preventing people dying from drug overdoses, and does nothing to stop a bright mind being turned into a schizophrenic maelstrom from the use of "social" drugs.

Make it legal and focus on educating and advocating against drug use.

Income stream for organised crime dries up; that has to be a bonus.

It is not that different with the puppy farms.

Line them up on the horizon and start shooting (metaphorically speaking) but keep them in full view and work to punch big holes in their dirty trade. with the NAME & SHAME techniques. They work well when used!

Souff

[shortstep]

I am not a breeder of dogs

At the time when I first read about the rally I thought it was a great thing (and it is a good thing people are getting it into the public forum) however after the wave of emotion calmed down I looked at the whole thing logically and I didn't like what I was seeing for the future of dogs in the future.

It is all good to get emotion behind a cause but if you don't have logic and fore sight for the future, the seeds you sow today can be your demise in the future. I personally think the first step would be ban the sale of live animals from pet shops, like they have in some of the states in America because the whole thing is people will do whatever they want if they know it will get them money.

--Lhok

O.K. so we ban the sale of live animals in pet shops - what then?

People will still be breeding lots of dogs, people will still be buying lots of dogs, people will get more money for what they breed because there is no middle man. No middle man to filter out the rotten operators and act as a buffer between rotten breeders and the new owners. What then?

Instead of being totally negative, and via that, either allow puppy farms to prosper, or registered breeders to suffer, why not try to be positive for once - if ONE thing happened - that is - the sale of pups in pet shops was stopped, there would be a huge improvement.

You sell pups, you are aware of the time and effort involved in selling 100 pups. Imagine travelling 100 pups somewhere on a weekend and selling them? Even without any paper work, and very little dialogue with the buyer, no one would have time.

Also imagine 50 puppy farms each with 100 pups to sell on a weekend. Where are the buyers? At least 70% of puppy farm stock are sold through pet shops.

50% of the people who would buy from pet shops would not buy elsewhere. Preventing the sale of pups in shops would need to be accompanied by a media campaign to educate people to buy privately.

The RSPCA is keen on stopping puppy farms, they have lots of dosh, and the media smarts. Let them show how genuine they are by providing a media campaign for this

Then concerned proper breeders can stop worrying, and the RSPCA can use the existing animal husbandry laws to raid whatever puppy farms remain.

Look at it from the other side. I am surprised a breeder can't see the difficulties involved for puppy farms if the pet shop market was closed.

Attempt ONE THING at a time in a positive way.

For the good of the dogs.

Everyone keeps demanding, them what would you do to end puppy farms, like there is an easy solution. this is a problem in most of the world and has been for atleast the 30 years I have been following it, so it is not an easy fix. If there was a known workable solution of how to do this, then it would easy to follow. I am not sure there are any examples to follow.

However I have heard before the northern europe (Finnland for example) have very few rescue dogs. So I went looking to see what their situation was. I found this.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...=clnk&gl=au

When I moved to Australia from Finland, I was shocked to see dogs and cats at a pet shop. I'm 34 years old, and I've never seen such thing before. The song "how much is that doggy in the window" made no sense to me before. I've owned 2 dogs in my life time, both of which I got directly from a reputable breeder. Breeding in Finland is done incredibly responsibly, even though professional breeders are virtually unheard of. The dog breeding and selling culture is very different, as well as is the general attitudes towards dogs. Dogs are highly respected, if an owner needs to give up a dog for any reason, they look for a new home themselves, shelters are almost empty. For any shelter dog, there's a queue of takers, and this goes so far, that Finns import shelter dogs from Estonia because the need to help dogs is so high.

I believe all this is the direct result of the fact that pet shops are not allowed to sell cats or dogs. I don't know when this was banned, or if pet shops have ever even allowed to sell dogs or cats, but this is the way it's been since I can remember. It sends a clear message that these animals are special in the way that they need special conditions, special attention and special CONSIDERATION before buying. You HAVE TO go through trouble to get one, and not just get one at the mall the same time you get a pair of new boots.

That is not to say that puppy farms didn't exist in Finland, but they are not common, and the public is generally appalled by them. The farms operate through a similar publication to the Trading Post, offering "pure bred dogs that are not registered because their paws are too big". The people who buy pure bred unregistered dogs are generally regarded as cheap snobbish idiots (fake Rolex -type of thing), which is a good incentive not to buy one from such place.

Also, what shocked me was the price of a dog in Australia. You can get 2 rare pure breed dogs at the price of one... Not to even mention the more common ones. And, as I said, professional kennels are unheard off in Finland where dogs are mainly bred in close collaboration between knowledgeble hobbyists, who each keep 3-5 dogs at a time as house pets. (There's no upper limit or council regulations of dog amounts, but this is how it's mostly done.)

The world would have a lot to learn from the Finnish way of managing dogs. (Tail docking was banned in the 90's and ear cropping in the 70's.) In addition, Finland is the host country to 2 of the 5 biggest dog shows in Europe, which shows how seriously we take our dogs, considering that we only have 5 million people in the whole country. (Attitudes are changed faster I suppose.) It would be a good place for a case study in support of banning selling dogs and cats at pet shops and thus reducing the available business of puppy farms.

I highlighted some thoughts she expressed, though I thought the whole thing was really good. I also note how home breeders, same as the ANKC small home breeders of Australia, did not seeme to be regulated very much, were well respected, they did not even have limits on the number of dogs they can have. Which is just the opposite of what people want to do here, by over regulating and even calling for RSPCA inspections, pushing these 'good' breeders away instead of soliciting them to help change the behaviour of the puppy buying public. Very different attitude towards purebred dogs breeders and to dogs in general. So if it works in Finnland it would likely work here. Her idea is basiclly to ban pert shop sales and promote ANKC small home breeders as the best place to get puppys from.

I am gone to watch a movie.

Edited to say, I beleive when she say professional breeders she means puppy farms or large scale buinesses.

Edited September 22, 2010 by shortstep

[Lindainfa]

Quick question- a lot of people are asking me how come the RSPCA are not able to seize all the animals when they raid thses places? I don not know the answer, could someone please give me the answer?

[mackiemad]

ok. so if we ONLY ban pet shops from selling live animals then HOW is that supposed to stop all those ads on the trading post and petlink? because i think anyone who knows more than a little on this subject is keenly aware that much of puppy farms sales never see a shopfront.

i'm not sure that banning pet shop sales is the way to go, but in combination with other legislation then it might be effective.

and the RSPCA operates under DIFFERENT legislation is different states. they are also run by different people in different states. they have no connection to each other, only the rspca australia, and all they do is ensure that there is sufficient funds management (ie, one state isnt grovelling poor and the others are doing ok, they can shift the funds to where they're needed) and that their general aims are being met and perpetuated, such as education, aide and rehab. NOT all states have kill sheleters either, that depends on state law AND often the law is different for the rspca than other rescue orgs.

in VICTORIA, which is where we are talking about, we cannot go in and sieze an animal unless the animal is in immediate danger. we must give warnings and try to educate and owner first. often we try and get them to sign an animal over if we think we will not be able to sieze or educate the owners suffeicently. we only act on tip offs that have WITNESSED the act of cruelty or negligence and they must give their name so it can be verified and we can contact them for a witness statement if necessary.

jed, in victoria there has been a media campiagn for this in the past few months. we have had ads (when is say ads, i mean poster type things) in the paper, ads on the sides of buses, ads on public transport shelter. there have been newspaper articles written because fo this campaign, one was linked in this thread, from july this year, in the age. they didn't have the money to keep it up, so it has weaned off now.

and as for people saying that they haven't been pointing fingers, well, all i can say is that comments such as this:

It stinks to high heaven off bullshit excuses to me. The RSPCA have the power, they use it when it suits them and rakes in the $$$

from ready set go

feels like finger pointing to me. i have stated before that i am aligned with the rspca vic. i have actually been pretty impartial, but i don't believe that just because i work for the rspca (not that they can afford to or do pay me much) it doesn't mean that i am full of bullshit, nor does it mean that i, or the people i work with, are out to get registered breeders. obviously you have this view, and i don't believe it. so they got one woman (and i have said that i don't know the deatils of the case, so please don't jump down my throat, i'm not saying who was right or wrong, i've honestly no idea) and you all think that everyone who works there and that the entire organisation is scum? and animal lib, you decide they hate you and you refuse to work with them? well how will anythign be achieved if there isn't discussion from all sides. i keep saying this and i keep getting replies saying that you guys wouldn't be in the same room and discuss anythign with animal lib, well then how is anythign to be done? how can you ensure that your views are heard as well as theirs?

*sigh* i'm tired, but i'll say one last thing. steve said this earlier:

Well rather than being disapointed because you - someone who doesnt breed thinks they should have been there perhaps you could try to get educated and see why they werent there.

in response to my not being a breeder. well i'm not a breeder because i have no interest in owning an undesexed dog (too much hassle for me as i only want pets) and because i'm simply not invested enough with one breed to commit to that responsibility. i think i'm actually pretty educated thank you steve, and i think that post is beneath you. do i know everything? hell no. do i believe i do? hell no. i said that no one wants to get into bed with animal lib because we don't agree with philosophy. BUT i said that because we (people concerned with puppy farms) need their money, power, connections and the sheer body mass they provide to something like a rally, then it was worth trying to work with them. if the animal industry cannot agree and work together then any legislation, if it ever happens, will be a crappy compromise. SOMETIMES it is worth getting into bed with the devil in order to make the end product neither angelic nor devillish.

i know why they weren't there steve. they were so damn scared that they were going to get vilified by the public animal lib and the rspca (not saying this is without cause). they were so concerned that because organisations like animal lib are involved it will all get turned around so that they no longer have rights as people or breeders should this legislation go ahead. they were worried that should this legislation go ahead then all breeding would be impossible and the puppy farms that survive and whoops litters will be all the dogs we have left. all i am saying is, how on earth can you prevent that from happening, being vilified by the public and ending up with sub-par legislation unless you get out there and invest yourself in the process.

saying you don't agree from afar is one thing. getting involved, saying you don't agree with aspects and trying to ensure that your members and representatives get a 'fair go' is another. you cannot shape any legislation unless you are INVOLVED in the process.

[Gayle.]

Quick question- a lot of people are asking me how come the RSPCA are not able to seize all the animals when they raid thses places? I don not know the answer, could someone please give me the answer?

Resources. They don't have the facilities to hold all the dogs. They touched on that on the 7PM Project last night.

[oakway]

Quick question- a lot of people are asking me how come the RSPCA are not able to seize all the animals when they raid thses places? I don not know the answer, could someone please give me the answer?

I am of the opinion that the RSPCA do not raid/ inspect these places or rarely do.

As far as I am concerned it would cost them to much money to look after dogs if they were seized.

[Souff]

Quick question- a lot of people are asking me how come the RSPCA are not able to seize all the animals when they raid thses places? I don not know the answer, could someone please give me the answer?

Resources. They don't have the facilities to hold all the dogs. They touched on that on the 7PM Project last night.

Not the case.

Look at the large numbers of poodles that were siezed in the case in Queensland. Yes, they needed help but help was found.

In another case over 100 Chis were siezed in a joint state operation.

Not easy but to clean out large operations it can be done and has been done.

Souff

[Gayle.]

Quick question- a lot of people are asking me how come the RSPCA are not able to seize all the animals when they raid thses places? I don not know the answer, could someone please give me the answer?

Resources. They don't have the facilities to hold all the dogs. They touched on that on the 7PM Project last night.

Not the case.

Look at the large numbers of poodles that were siezed in the case in Queensland. Yes, they needed help but help was found.

In another case over 100 Chis were siezed in a joint state operation.

Not easy but to clean out large operations it can be done and has been done.

Souff

What is the case?