Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[shortstep]

Not only had they better put up and shut up, but they better do it with a smile on their face

If you had read it properly I am saying the exact opposite. Stand up, make yourselves heard and educate the public

Statements like that make it clear that it really is time to say,

No puppies for sale.

Check with your animal rights group to locate a new and imporved,

inspected and approved large scale breeding facility to purchase your new puppy.

For the greater good.

FFS grow up. You cannot say your puppy sales to owners do not in any way contribute to help keep your hobby afloat so pull your head in, otherwise you would be giving them away. This is the shitty attitude that will see the demise of the pedigree dog. You know why? You'll play everyone right into the hands of the mass marketing pet stores and farmers. I'm on YOUR side. I WANT to see more purebreed dogs but the attitudes coming from some pedigree breeders frankly stinks. But no .. right we just wont share our lollies with the other children

This is not the world it was 30 years ago where mongrels were worthless and purebreed dogs sold themselves. The world is changing and to survive you MUST change with it. To ensure the survival of pdigree dogs

- the public needs to be invited to participate in the pedigree world (open days, neuter shows, etc)

- There needs to be cohesion and agreement within the pedigree world instead of backstabbing, whinging and self serving attitudes

- There needs to be a push for the ANKC to use YOUR money properly and promote YOUR, YOUR EFFORTS AND YOUR BREEDS properly to the public

- Mass marketing to show why pedigree pups ARE preferable to puppy farmed dogs

- There needs to be pride and acceptance attached to people who want to breed their chosen breed under an ANKC kennel name and COE, they should be flocking to the ANKC instead they're leaving

- There needs to be an overall feeling of achievement and pride in the buyer when purchasing a pedigree pup

THe iron is hot and THE ANKC IS NOT STRIKING! People are now up in arms about this puppy farm/pet store issue and all I hear from the pedigree org and clubs is crickets chirping. It is ultimately about the dogs, but the sentiment still seems to be more about the people.

LOL you are too funny.

Look you go for it. Goodness knows ANKC breeders need a savior now and who better then you to lead them away from temptation and towards enlightenment.

For the greater good.

[oakway]

What in the name of god makes you think we get any money out of it ?.

What a joke. Most of us would be lucky to break even after a litter.

We breed to improve the breed and maybe just get a better one next litter.

so when you sell your puppies, and people pay you money it just *poof* dissapears into the ether? I'm not saying to make or aim for profit. I am saying there is money changing hands here and it is there in order to help you at least somewhat in your endeavours is it not? You are making some effort to recoup your litter costs in order to maintain your ability to breed, show or whatever else you chose to do with your dogs, no?

NO.........I AM USUALLY AT A LOSS.

I breed to improve the breed not make money.

The money I receive pays for little or nothing, I also do it for the love of the breed.

[Nekhbet]

NO.........I AM USUALLY AT A LOSS.

I breed to improve the breed not make money.

The money I receive pays for little or nothing, I also do it for the love of the breed.

ok you dont understand my point. I never said you make a profit did I. I said the money that your puppy buys give you contributes to your hobby - it does help in some way, in some instances in a large way and occasionally a profit, maybe not for you but for some registered breeders it does. If you dont understand what contributes means look in the dictionary.

LOL you are too funny.

Look you go for it. Goodness knows ANKC breeders need a savior now and who better then you to lead them away from temptation and towards enlightenment.

For the greater good.

I suppose you can keep laughing when you blame everyone else for your woes. Easier to sit back and point the finger then go, hey great idea lets give it a go.

I must say I am dissapointed by not surprised at either of your attitudes. No wonder pedigree memberships are slipping if you two and your sarcasm in this thread are the 'examples'.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Nekhbet

[mackiemad]

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws.

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally.

Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing.

Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too.

I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.

you're so right nekhbet. that is why i was disappointed that the ankc, vicdogs or even breed organisations (a poodle club would have REALLY been worthwhile) didn't rock up and have their stands on sunday, giving out fliers talking about why they're pups, dogs and members are opposed to puppy farming and why they are different and ethical.-also HOW to determine if a breeder is ethical and how to approach and find such breeders.

how on earth do you expect ignorant joe blow public to find out and buy well bred pups from an ethical rigistered breeder if they don't know where to look?

guys, we aren't trying to put you out of business, we're trying to say you need to push yourselves and your agenda (healthy, pedigree pups and dogs) into the public sphere. we want to catch the bad guys, as i'm sure you do, so we HAVE to work together or those left out in the codl may be the ones who didn't come to the discussions purely because their p.o.v wasn't included. if you want to shut up shop, fine. if you want to give up, fine. honestly, it already feels like you've given up on the public. even from outside the dog show world but within the animal industry it all feels very exclusive, so how are the ordinary families wanting quality pets going to feel?

you pay your societies good money and you pay it for a good reason. they are not living up to your demands, they are failing you. we are saying that you can get involved in the process and ensure that pedigree dogs survive and flourish, that the recent bad attitude in the public can be turned around with positive and active involvement in society and the media.

nobody on here likes working with animal lib, but the issue is real and they provide a whole lot of bodies, contacts and support to the cause. but we need more moderate reps to ensure that all side and facets of the dog world are represented and that the good breeders AREN'T thrown out with the bad. how will that happen if you won't even TRY to enter discussions?

[oakway]

NO.........I AM USUALLY AT A LOSS.

I breed to improve the breed not make money.

The money I receive pays for little or nothing, I also do it for the love of the breed.

ok you dont understand my point. I never said you make a profit did I. I said the money that your puppy buys give you contributes to your hobby - it does help in some way, in some instances in a large way and occasionally a profit, maybe not for you but for some registered breeders it does. If you dont understand what contributes means look in the dictionary.

LOL you are too funny.

Look you go for it. Goodness knows ANKC breeders need a savior now and who better then you to lead them away from temptation and towards enlightenment.

For the greater good.

I suppose you can keep laughing when you blame everyone else for your woes. Easier to sit back and point the finger then go, hey great idea lets give it a go.

I must say I am dissapointed by not surprised at either of your attitudes. No wonder pedigree memberships are slipping if you two and your sarcasm in this thread are the 'examples'.

I receive nothing to contribute to breeding. Isn't it about time you got the point.

I have no idea what others do, I was under the impression that you were speaking to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Natsu chan]

The thing is though well all need each other. Puppies don't materialise out of thin air, they need to be bred and raised and most of us want puppies who have time and love and care invested into them. Don't we? Breeders can't keep everything they breed especially in this day and age especially if they have a breed that has larger litters and let's face it the little extra from selling the puppies you can't keep does help keep it sustainable. Most breeders simply could not continue to breed if they didn't get some of the costs back from breeding by selling some of the pups. We need each other, even breeders were once not breeders and had to get that first dog from some where.

The arguments and problems are coming from the fact that the bill in question is attempting to do far too much all at once and therefore isn't able to make the reasonable allowances required to ensure that the sort of breeders we want to continue to provide us with our pets are not scared off or squashed out of existence. Yes the Kennel clubs need to step up to the plate but they are mostly volunteers remember and it is a difficult and painful transition to make. Vicdogs was already committed to the Royal long before this rally was put in place which may have been part of the issue, I honestly have no idea. I think they missed an opportunity to get free publicity and some extra leverage for getting allowances for their members. They are trying but it needs to be much more and quicker. I think everyone agrees about that.

If we could just focus on large commercial puppy farms to begin with, and putting an appeal system in place for the RSPCA and educating people about why they shouldn't breed their pets, there would be a lot less fighting all round. And yes I know people will disagree with me on that but things are better done little by little and with due consideration than in the mad rush that is so common in Victoria.

[toy dog]

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws.

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally.

Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing.

Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too.

I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.

you're so right nekhbet. that is why i was disappointed that the ankc, vicdogs or even breed organisations (a poodle club would have REALLY been worthwhile) didn't rock up and have their stands on sunday, giving out fliers talking about why they're pups, dogs and members are opposed to puppy farming and why they are different and ethical.-also HOW to determine if a breeder is ethical and how to approach and find such breeders.

how on earth do you expect ignorant joe blow public to find out and buy well bred pups from an ethical rigistered breeder if they don't know where to look?

guys, we aren't trying to put you out of business, we're trying to say you need to push yourselves and your agenda (healthy, pedigree pups and dogs) into the public sphere. we want to catch the bad guys, as i'm sure you do, so we HAVE to work together or those left out in the codl may be the ones who didn't come to the discussions purely because their p.o.v wasn't included. if you want to shut up shop, fine. if you want to give up, fine. honestly, it already feels like you've given up on the public. even from outside the dog show world but within the animal industry it all feels very exclusive, so how are the ordinary families wanting quality pets going to feel?

you pay your societies good money and you pay it for a good reason. they are not living up to your demands, they are failing you. we are saying that you can get involved in the process and ensure that pedigree dogs survive and flourish, that the recent bad attitude in the public can be turned around with positive and active involvement in society and the media.

nobody on here likes working with animal lib, but the issue is real and they provide a whole lot of bodies, contacts and support to the cause. but we need more moderate reps to ensure that all side and facets of the dog world are represented and that the good breeders AREN'T thrown out with the bad. how will that happen if you won't even TRY to enter discussions?

just responding to this, from my breed club we do alot of PR, we use to have a yellow pages advert for many years but then it stopped. the membership was cut back then. we often have members competitions promoting our breed to the general public and have a pets only class they can be desexed or not but mostly people from the public do attend, most of them contact me first then i hand over to the club.

last competition we had that many people wanting to join up it wasn't funny so our PR (many besides me promote our little club in Victoria) is working fine.

the profit side. in our breed it happens like this. bought a little girl from a breeder interstate, paid $600, this girl was pregnant accidentally when she came to me, had the ONE PUP cost me $1000 to save the puppy thru a ceasarian, nearly lost the mother but thankfully i had a brilliant vet.

so i am now at a loss, do i care? nope. the money isn't important never was, never will be, and there are stories like this ALOT. i think its a good year if i break even but i dare not look at my vet receipts to work out how much loss there is. i am not interested as it takes away the joy of having my dogs to show to love to enjoy.

i don't give two hoots if no one comes to buy my puppies i don't breed for anyone but myself, it usually takes about a month for a dog/pup to sell because it has to be just the right home. this year i had 3 chis to sell that didn't make it in the showring, the year before that we had a 5 year break from seling anything when i did have an 8 week old boy pup to sell 5 years ago, i had 2 ladies fighting over who i was to sell it too

the VCA has said that this companion dog club is promoting our organisation to the normal pet owner....but many pedigree dog breeders/exhibitors are grumbling about it.......they had a dog show in federation square to promote dog shows and it was a huge success.

so we are promoting in the general public its just not getting alot of exposure like DDs, puppy farms and the likes are.....

more breeders/exhibitors need to blow our own horn though, i've had people at work come up and say "so how much money do you make" well....then they get a lecture usually i say i don't breed for money, i breed for myself for that special showdog. they are usually surprised but by the time i finish with them they understand.

also i open myself up for the general public to ask me questions, had one lady do that and she got upset with me when i told her the truth about her little pomchi about how it wasn't really a breed, that was the lady that ended up threatening to bring the police in on me just because i told her a few home truths politely. but it hasn't put me off i am still offering to help whoever wants help from my website. promoting pedigrees .

got accused on facebook of trying to recruit people when someone asked if anyone knows of a DD breeder for a pom cross malt. go to a shelter they said how dare i promote a pedigree.

[Steve]

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws.

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally.

Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing.

Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too.

I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.

you're so right nekhbet. that is why i was disappointed that the ankc, vicdogs or even breed organisations (a poodle club would have REALLY been worthwhile) didn't rock up and have their stands on sunday, giving out fliers talking about why they're pups, dogs and members are opposed to puppy farming and why they are different and ethical.-also HOW to determine if a breeder is ethical and how to approach and find such breeders.

how on earth do you expect ignorant joe blow public to find out and buy well bred pups from an ethical rigistered breeder if they don't know where to look?

guys, we aren't trying to put you out of business, we're trying to say you need to push yourselves and your agenda (healthy, pedigree pups and dogs) into the public sphere. we want to catch the bad guys, as i'm sure you do, so we HAVE to work together or those left out in the codl may be the ones who didn't come to the discussions purely because their p.o.v wasn't included. if you want to shut up shop, fine. if you want to give up, fine. honestly, it already feels like you've given up on the public. even from outside the dog show world but within the animal industry it all feels very exclusive, so how are the ordinary families wanting quality pets going to feel?

you pay your societies good money and you pay it for a good reason. they are not living up to your demands, they are failing you. we are saying that you can get involved in the process and ensure that pedigree dogs survive and flourish, that the recent bad attitude in the public can be turned around with positive and active involvement in society and the media.

nobody on here likes working with animal lib, but the issue is real and they provide a whole lot of bodies, contacts and support to the cause. but we need more moderate reps to ensure that all side and facets of the dog world are represented and that the good breeders AREN'T thrown out with the bad. how will that happen if you won't even TRY to enter discussions?

Well rather than being disapointed because you - someone who doesnt breed thinks they should have been there perhaps you could try to get educated and see why they werent there. No body here likes working with animal lib? the issue you see is as they present it. Well some of us here refuse to work with animal lib and there is a big bloody difference to entering discussions which by the way I do on a daily basis and showing up to make people think we support what they are asking as a solution - when we dont. Stand back a bit and ask different questions and you might just get different answers.

You think you know what the problem is and what the solution is so of course everyone should race in with you and be seen to be standing with animal lib as they plot and plan to shut down breeders because you say we should run with the redneck animal rights loonies because they ahve a lot of bodies ,contacts and support to the cause ? Their cause ? Do youknow what they aim at?

No one who has a clue would ever consider attending that rally and standing with animal lib as a viable opportunity to promote what we do.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Steve

[oakway]

I do not understand why any person would think that we as registered breeders would stand shoulder to shoulder with animal liberationists, the very people that are trying to bring about our demise.

Edited September 22, 2010 by oakway

[toy dog]

It is obvious the regulations posters speak of will be applied to all breeders.

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department.

Of course they will stop breeding.

Anyone who thinks they wont are fooling themselves.

And Perhaps it is a good thing. There is so much random cruelty today, if dogs are very difficult to buy, and cost thousands, the cruelty may stop.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs.

Oscars Law included.

We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders".

Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner!

They are not interested in the future of good dogs.

Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers.

Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause.

Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ......

Souff

I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs.

The pet owning public fell for it.

With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect.

If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?.

talking to the organiser of this rally for a long time, no that is not true at all! they target farms and it was about FARMS. registered breeders are not mentioned in all of this.

read prisoner for profit website and you will see what im talking about. prisoners for profit

[oakway]

It is obvious the regulations posters speak of will be applied to all breeders.

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department.

Of course they will stop breeding.

Anyone who thinks they wont are fooling themselves.

And Perhaps it is a good thing. There is so much random cruelty today, if dogs are very difficult to buy, and cost thousands, the cruelty may stop.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs.

Oscars Law included.

We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders".

Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner!

They are not interested in the future of good dogs.

Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers.

Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause.

Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ......

Souff

I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs.

The pet owning public fell for it.

With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect.

If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?.

talking to the organiser of this rally for a long time, no that is not true at all! they target farms and it was about FARMS. registered breeders are not mentioned in all of this.

read prisoner for profit website and you will see what im talking about. prisoners for profit

That may have been the original intentions but we are all aware it did not end up that way.

[toy dog]

ok reading some statements about ALV, i have obviously missed something here, where does it say they are against reg breeders? i am not involved in the group but i support what they are trying to do from afar on their website, and that is closing down puppy mills thats what i understand it to be.

[toy dog]

It is obvious the regulations posters speak of will be applied to all breeders.

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department.

Of course they will stop breeding.

Anyone who thinks they wont are fooling themselves.

And Perhaps it is a good thing. There is so much random cruelty today, if dogs are very difficult to buy, and cost thousands, the cruelty may stop.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs.

Oscars Law included.

We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders".

Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner!

They are not interested in the future of good dogs.

Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers.

Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause.

Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ......

Souff

I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs.

The pet owning public fell for it.

With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect.

If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?.

talking to the organiser of this rally for a long time, no that is not true at all! they target farms and it was about FARMS. registered breeders are not mentioned in all of this.

read prisoner for profit website and you will see what im talking about. prisoners for profit

That may have been the original intentions but we are all aware it did not end up that way.

ok so where is the evidence then, is there something in the background thats going on that most of us are not aware off???? just asking an question???

ETA: do you mean RSPCA turned it into something else, probably stating the obvious, dn't mean to sound dumb.

Edited September 22, 2010 by toy dog

[Souff]

Souff has been thinking ......

A commune is what we need. Nobody owns any dogs, we all just borrow one when we feel the urge to breed a litter of puppies, for the greater good. Sure we pay a stud fee, it is for the greater good of the commune y'know. We dont sell puppies. Oh no, that would make it a commercial enterprise. We must hand our beautifully wormed and vaccinated little bundles back to the commune for the powers that be to select who should receive one of these little bundle to raise to adulthood. Then of course, they must part with it as it will be needed by the commune to give out All for the greater good. No abandonment of puppies. Maternal urges to reproduce will be satisfied.

Oh and yes, the commune can run shows too. Only the worthy will be selected of course to do the handling of the dogs in the showring, and no personal pride must be on show. The ribbons are for the commune to be proud of, for the greater good.

It is only a germ of an idea of course, but it would probably satisfy most of those who went to the rally last weekend, and of course, Ms Newkook from Peta.

Come on now, add a bit more to this ... help me out, brain is hurting ...

I think this could be made into a model that Victoria would love to put on show to the world, don't you?

Souff

[Steve]

ok reading some statements about ALV, i have obviously missed something here, where does it say they are against reg breeders? i am not involved in the group but i support what they are trying to do from afar on their website, and that is closing down puppy mills thats what i understand it to be.

The underlying goal of ALV is to abolish the property status of animals. They are against all breeders.

[Cosmolo]

Oakway what do you mean by "we are all aware it didn't end up that way"?

There was NOTHING bad mentioned about registered breeders at the rally AND i spoke to many people who were there with pedigree dogs and support registered breeders- you know what they were asking- why Dogs Victoria was not there. I did not hear one person talking about infringing upon ethical registered breeders and if you are concerned that this will happen anyway through unintentional knock on effects, why not TALK to these people and the legislators?

This thread is an amazing eye opener to me. I understand breeders are concerned- but i just don't think messages like whats in this thread are the right way to deal with such concerns. If i was a member of the public reading this thread i think i would be scared off registered breeders for some time.

You don't need to have a go at people to make your point and express your concerns.

I would like to know though- which of the following is the concern?

That any new legislation will adversely effect registered breeders although they are not the intended target OR that "these people" are going after registered breeders and want to eliminate all breeding?

I agree that the RSPCA's role needs to be re evaluated too. But although they were there- the rally was not organised by, or about the RSPCA, Judy Gard, Dangerous dog legislation or anything else. It was to raise public awareness about WHERE their dogs are coming from.

[oakway]

Toy dog due to legal reasons we can not answer your question.

If I said what I truly thought the list owner and I would end up in court.

And that ain't gunna happen.

[Erny]

... the rally was not organised by, or about the RSPCA, Judy Gard, Dangerous dog legislation or anything else. It was to raise public awareness about WHERE their dogs are coming from.

Was that all it was for, though?

[Steve]

... the rally was not organised by, or about the RSPCA, Judy Gard, Dangerous dog legislation or anything else. It was to raise public awareness about WHERE their dogs are coming from.

Was that all it was for, though?

No it was to push for new laws for breeding establishments and stopping the sales of dogs in pet shops.

[Erny]

... the rally was not organised by, or about the RSPCA, Judy Gard, Dangerous dog legislation or anything else. It was to raise public awareness about WHERE their dogs are coming from.

Was that all it was for, though?

No it was to push for new laws for breeding establishments and stopping the sales of dogs in pet shops.

Yes - that was my point behind my question.

And if it is a push for laws, then some organisation is going to have be granted licence to enforce/police those laws.

And who do we think that might be?