Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[Gayle.]

It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.

[Steve]

Stopping sales of puppies in pet stores doesn't address direct-to-public sales, exports or internet sales. Puppy farms will still continue to thrive and prosper.

yep.

[mortonplace]

l belive sticking to desexing ALL unreg pups before reg ,

And the stopping petshop sales of live animals will end the trade in the end.

lt may take a few years but it will happen

[asal]

It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.

seems to me they did more than look in judys backyard, clean down their thoats wasnt it?

you seem to forget the ops were done legally, the charges are for showing them, supposedly the legislation was to stop puppy farmers . is judy bycatch?

"Bycatch

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Photo of dozens of dead shellfish lying atop mud.

Shrimp bycatch

The term bycatch is usually used for fish caught unintentionally in a fishery while intending to catch other fish. It may however also indicate untargeted catch in other forms of animal harvesting or collecting. Bycatch are either of a different species or juveniles of the target species.

The OECD (1997) defines bycatch as "total fishing mortality excluding that accounted directly by the retained catch of target species".

There are at least four different ways the word bycatch is used in fisheries:[1]

* Catch which is retained and sold but which is not the target species for the fishery

* Species/sizes/sexes of fish which fishermen discard[2]

* Non-target fish whether retained and sold or discarded"

so far, seeing she has been charged, doesnt seem this fish is being "discarded"

dont see anyone regards this lady, well save for the rspca, a puppy farmer, but she sure is in the "net"

Edited September 20, 2010 by asal

[asal]

heres 19 pages of puppy farms topic

wheres the 19 pages demanding the governement that implimented the net judy is in, to give equal opportunity to judy to appeal too?

instead of the present? now where except begging the mercy of a magistrate and facing tens maybe hundreds of thousands in legal fees?

if you can apply to ombudsman if your unfairly treated in every dept and walk of life be it work related, purchase of shoddy goods related, discrimination related, but no where no way rspca related?

this is descrimination of the worst kind surely

[Gayle.]

?????

[~Anne~]

heres 19 pages of puppy farms topic

wheres the 19 pages demanding the governement that implimented the net judy is in, to give equal opportunity to judy to appeal too?

instead of the present? now where except begging the mercy of a magistrate and facing tens maybe hundreds of thousands in legal fees?

if you can apply to ombudsman if your unfairly treated in every dept and walk of life be it work related, purchase of shoddy goods related, discrimination related, but no where no way rspca related?

this is descrimination of the worst kind surely

And that is the issue with RSPCA.

[WreckitWhippet]

It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.

It's not the looking in my back yard that bothers me. I have nothing to hide, the dogs are very well cared for, recieve vet care when necessary. What I take exception to, is that is not good enough and if the RSPCA want to shut me down, make an example out of me and screw me over, the bastards have the power to walk in, seize any or all of my dogs and ask questions later and yet there are people out there who want to give them more

It stinks to high heaven and when the screw someone over, there's no one to complain to.

I keep hearing the line " it won't happen to the ethical " and that's bullshit, as I've seen it played out already.

[megan_]

heres 19 pages of puppy farms topic

wheres the 19 pages demanding the governement that implimented the net judy is in, to give equal opportunity to judy to appeal too?

instead of the present? now where except begging the mercy of a magistrate and facing tens maybe hundreds of thousands in legal fees?

if you can apply to ombudsman if your unfairly treated in every dept and walk of life be it work related, purchase of shoddy goods related, discrimination related, but no where no way rspca related?

this is descrimination of the worst kind surely

There were 50+ pages on Judy. If you feel that her plight has been ignored, start another topic.

This has nothing to do with Judy. If you have issues with the legislation that got Judy into a bind I suggest that you:

i) Personally arrange a meeting with your local MP to update them on the situation and let them know what you want.

ii) Organise a rally

iii) Ask DogsVic what they are doing about the situation, especially since they knew that the legislation was coming in but didn't seem to fully inform members.

This is a topic about puppy farmers. It is not about the RSPCA and it isn't about Judy. What is YOUR solution for them?

One this is certain, if the ANKC and breeders try to run away from this topic, they WILL be adversely impacted - and rightly so. The ANKC should be the leaders in getting rid of these scum. If they are worried how legislation is going to impact them, they should draft proposed legislation that protects the rights of good breeders and stops the bad breeders. They should be meeting with MP's, party backroom wheelers and dealers, the RSPCA etc.

ETA: It is my understanding that the RSPCA reports to a Minister (Primary Industries or some such). IF this is right, then there is someone to complain to. And better yet - they get elected every 4 years and you can vote with your feet.

Edited September 20, 2010 by megan_

[Crisovar]

It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.

It's not the looking in my back yard that bothers me. I have nothing to hide, the dogs are very well cared for, recieve vet care when necessary. What I take exception to, is that is not good enough and if the RSPCA want to shut me down, make an example out of me and screw me over, the bastards have the power to walk in, seize any or all of my dogs and ask questions later and yet there are people out there who want to give them more

It stinks to high heaven and when the screw someone over, there's no one to complain to.

I keep hearing the line " it won't happen to the ethical " and that's bullshit, as I've seen it played out already.

That's about the crux of it.

It has happened and it will happen again.

Registered dog breeders are soft targets and they have no where to turn when it happens.

The big puppy farms if hit will simply take up some other money making venture and continue on their slimy way, the breeders like JG will be left gutted and defeated, their dreams shattered their pets taken, and you can bet your last penny there will a camera crew there to splash your pain all over the news.

Breeders pour their heart and soul into what they do, many have spent a lifetime doing it.

[Gayle.]

So, what do breeders propose to shut down puppy farms?

[WreckitWhippet]

The PIAA has been pretty quiet through all of this. Surely they aren't going to take the RSPCA crap laying down.

[asal]

my complaint is this thread is making the same mistakes of the past.

pushing for more controls, before even considering what happens to the bycatch?

surely both should be in place?

n i certainly have been busy writing and phoning, done so for over 2 years. one voice is ignored as the ranting of the deluded. it needs all of you

united, polies do listen, the greenies learned that,

dog people just stand aside and think "titch, titch, where theres smoke thers fire you know"

bit like the ones the lion brings down for dinner and the rest of the herd watch, relieved its not them when the whole herd could attack and drive the lion away, buffolo do when in the mood. what does it take to get the dog lobby to actually get in the "mood" and supply equal numbers.

that rally was marvelous. but sadly no mention also asking for along with the new legislation for any right of appeal set in place?. dont kid yourself the rspca do any but "report" to the minister. he had absolutely no interest in anyone with a problem. learned that well. and dont think the report has to tell the truth either. I was fascinated to learn that the inspector "without proper records of your own or your eterinarian, showing that stringy was under veterinary care, the inspectors could only rely on their own judgement. In this case Inspector donnelly decided that stringy's best interests would be served by a proper veterinary examination and diagnostic work up at the rspca shelter" how sweet. that letter was dated 14 jun 2001. did write a reply pointing out the below, although no reply was ever received to that one, probably went into the tooo hard basket ? gave up aftr that, whats the use when no longer get any response.

this is what the minister for agriculture was told... what he was not told was the so concerned inspector was given the dogs vets name, number and addres at the occasion of the first visit to assure himself by speaking personally to the dogs vet that he had blue gene alopecia. HE NEVER CONTACTED MY VET BEFOR SEIZING THE DOG 2 WEEKS LATER. he nver contacted my vet after seizing the dog either.

so you tell how he could tell a senior government minister this was the reason he took the dog?

the dogs vet did personally call and demand the return of the dog AFTER it was taken, (48 hours after to be precise, he couldnt believe he had not been returned as soon as the rspca vet laid eyes on him). Yes he did admit during that phone call, he never put into writing in the dogs chartes he had blue gene alopecia. he wont make the same mistake again now he knows you have to have that a dog is healthy on its chart now not just when it sick. if he had then he would have been returned (we hope anyway) then n there, instead he was kept for 13 days while they franticly cut and stabbed him repeatedly until the last test came back negative . my vet estimated by the bill and procedures 22 needle insertions into a 1.2 kg dog. in that period. n two skin plugs removed.

ive rang many vets, non do this, save those who have had this happen to them.. but it still begs the question,..... the report given to the minister for agriculture for seizing this dog was false. in a court of law that is a chargable offence.

i just love the bit from richard amery that long as you adher to the code of practice u have nothing to fear from the rspca.

even kindly gave me a copy.

not a thing in it mentioned even one of the tests done on my dog as needing urgent veterinary care, not as even needing a vet? sooooooo

if your feeling warm and fuzzy that you have nothing they can seize over because theres nothing wrong, some of you will learn some day the truth. but then your friends will quietly wonder," where theres smoke theres fire"

Edited September 21, 2010 by asal

[shortstep]

And another one....also local to me. Gee, who needs to go to a pet shop? This is a family farm, warm welcomes come free. Also very easy to do business with....pick up the phone, drop them an email, you can even order your hearts desire.

"Breeders of spoodle, cavoodle, schnoodle.

Spoodles, Cavoodles, Schnoodles, are bred for their non shed, low allergy and great temperament.

We breed partie coloured, golden, black, white and other unique black and tans. Our pups are from top quality pure-bred dogs, spaniel mothers with poodle fathers, the pup is then a first cross (F1) to ensure health and hybrid vigour with the spoodle attribute of a wavy non-shed coat. This is called a spoodle or in the USA a cockerpoo, Read FAQ on F3+ crosses

Yet temperament and our professional service is still our priority and this is ensured with our breeding dogs, come and meet our girls. All our puppies come Desexed, Micro-chiped, Vaccinated and Vet checked and with a health guarantee

Farm visits are welcome come and see first hand the puppies and mothers in our modern welping nursery. See a real dog breeding complex. We are not puppy dealers or wholesalers. If you expect the best our pups are for you.

Please have a browse of our Oodles Gallery and Puppies for Sale feel free to give us a call, or use the Contact Us page to purchase a pup or send a message, check out our Location page, or come visit us and our puppies face to face! To order a puppy from xxxxxxxxxxx Farm, send your order via our Contact Us page.

We are the real deal being born and breed in the Gippsland heartland you can count on us we know and love animals.

This is a family business employing local people so give us a call and and speak to Liz or Larry daughter Jo or son Max."

It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.

So you believe that to stop breeders like this one above, the government and the RSPCA need to go after every ANKC breeders who have nothing to do with the above situation?

You think that because ANKC breeders do not want to be treated like they are puppy mills that this means they want puppy mills to thrive?

There is a town called Lost the Plot, where a person committed murder.

The people of the town were shocked and said this was just awful. So the mayor Mr. Watermelon decided to stop murder from every happening again in Lost the Plot.

He order the police to randomly enter every home and search for any evidence that might indicate a murder had or could occur.

The people in the town began to complain, they said they did not want to be treated like potential murderers when there is no reason to believe they have or will commit a crime.

Mr. Watermelon says "Anyone who does not want to be treated like a murder suspect is proving they are just fine with people committing murders!'

He goes on to say, while pointing his finger at the complainers, "In Lost the Plot, all people are murder suspects and they shall remain murder suspect until it is proven they are murders"!

[asal]

And another one....also local to me. Gee, who needs to go to a pet shop? This is a family farm, warm welcomes come free. Also very easy to do business with....pick up the phone, drop them an email, you can even order your hearts desire.

"Breeders of spoodle, cavoodle, schnoodle.

Spoodles, Cavoodles, Schnoodles, are bred for their non shed, low allergy and great temperament.

We breed partie coloured, golden, black, white and other unique black and tans. Our pups are from top quality pure-bred dogs, spaniel mothers with poodle fathers, the pup is then a first cross (F1) to ensure health and hybrid vigour with the spoodle attribute of a wavy non-shed coat. This is called a spoodle or in the USA a cockerpoo, Read FAQ on F3+ crosses

Yet temperament and our professional service is still our priority and this is ensured with our breeding dogs, come and meet our girls. All our puppies come Desexed, Micro-chiped, Vaccinated and Vet checked and with a health guarantee

Farm visits are welcome come and see first hand the puppies and mothers in our modern welping nursery. See a real dog breeding complex. We are not puppy dealers or wholesalers. If you expect the best our pups are for you.

Please have a browse of our Oodles Gallery and Puppies for Sale feel free to give us a call, or use the Contact Us page to purchase a pup or send a message, check out our Location page, or come visit us and our puppies face to face! To order a puppy from xxxxxxxxxxx Farm, send your order via our Contact Us page.

We are the real deal being born and breed in the Gippsland heartland you can count on us we know and love animals.

This is a family business employing local people so give us a call and and speak to Liz or Larry daughter Jo or son Max."

It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.

So you believe that to stop breeders like this one above, the government and the RSPCA need to go after every ANKC breeders who have nothing to do with the above situation?

You think that because ANKC breeders do not want to be treated like they are puppy mills that this means they want puppy mills to thrive?

There is a town called Lost the Plot, where a person committed murder.

The people of the town were shocked and said this was just awful. So the mayor Mr. Watermelon decided to stop murder from every happening again in Lost the Plot.

He order the police to randomly enter every home and search for any evidence that might indicate a murder had or could occur.

The people in the town began to complain, they said they did not want to be treated like potential murderers when there is no reason to believe they have or will commit a crime.

Mr. Watermelon says "Anyone who does not want to be treated like a murder suspect is proving they are just fine with people committing murders!'

He goes on to say, while pointing his finger at the complainers, "In Lost the Plot, all people are murder suspects and they shall remain murder suspect until it is proven they are murders"!

think you need to rename australia, its already 'Lost the Plot"

[Gayle.]

Don't put words into my mouth and don't tell me what I do or don't believe, shortstep. I posted that to refute the belief that banning sales of puppies through pet shops will see the demise of puppy farmers. That is all.

[Souff]

And another one....also local to me. Gee, who needs to go to a pet shop? This is a family farm, warm welcomes come free. Also very easy to do business with....pick up the phone, drop them an email, you can even order your hearts desire.

"Breeders of spoodle, cavoodle, schnoodle.

Spoodles, Cavoodles, Schnoodles, are bred for their non shed, low allergy and great temperament.

We breed partie coloured, golden, black, white and other unique black and tans. Our pups are from top quality pure-bred dogs, spaniel mothers with poodle fathers, the pup is then a first cross (F1) to ensure health and hybrid vigour with the spoodle attribute of a wavy non-shed coat. This is called a spoodle or in the USA a cockerpoo, Read FAQ on F3+ crosses

Yet temperament and our professional service is still our priority and this is ensured with our breeding dogs, come and meet our girls. All our puppies come Desexed, Micro-chiped, Vaccinated and Vet checked and with a health guarantee

Farm visits are welcome come and see first hand the puppies and mothers in our modern welping nursery. See a real dog breeding complex. We are not puppy dealers or wholesalers. If you expect the best our pups are for you.

Please have a browse of our Oodles Gallery and Puppies for Sale feel free to give us a call, or use the Contact Us page to purchase a pup or send a message, check out our Location page, or come visit us and our puppies face to face! To order a puppy from xxxxxxxxxxx Farm, send your order via our Contact Us page.

We are the real deal being born and breed in the Gippsland heartland you can count on us we know and love animals.

This is a family business employing local people so give us a call and and speak to Liz or Larry daughter Jo or son Max."

Gayle,

Whether we like it or not, these people have the trade laws on their side, and the trade laws are Federal laws, which, I am told, in a legal showdown, will take precedence over State laws. So trying to shut them down is a bit like trying to push water uphill. It ain't gonna happen.

Should they be regulated and be called to account? Yes, most definitely.

By whom?

They dont qualify to be VCA breeders, because they are not breeding purebred dogs.

Some other breeders dont qualify to be VCA breeders either because they are breeding dogs that are not an ANKC breed. They are still purebred dogs though.

So why is the Victorian government not going to them and asking for the Code of Ethics under which they operate?

Some of them actually do belong to organisations which have a Code of Ethics.

I understand that in Victoria now, ALL dogs (irrespective of what breed or size or shape) must be microchipped as puppies by the breeder.

So, somebody, somewhere, holds the key to the engine of all this ruckus: the database of microchips of all dogs in Victoria (well most of em one would think).

In NSW it is the state government who holds this information.

I understand that the Victorian Govt did not follow NSW lead and make the database a state resource. Pity.

So when the Victorian Govt says that all breeders must be held to account for what they breed, they dont have the basic database from which to operate!

Pfffft! What is it with you Victorians? Is it something in the water down there, or is it a lack of sunshine?

Look, I think Victorians all need to settle down and take a good look at where you have put the wheels on the cart.

From where I am sitting, you are all sitting on a cart where the wheels are not underneath, ready to roll. The cart cannot go anywhere.

All the laws that you might dream up to get rid of puppy farms are not going to work because you have got the whole thing arse up.

I dont like mass production of dogs any more than you do. I dont like seeing dogs go to the wrong homes - I have been cleaning up that mess for decades.

But I am a realist and I know that to wave the big puppy farm stick and ban the building of kennels (which can be quite useful for other purposes) is not going to solve the problem.

It is simply more likely to push the problems underground where there is no control and the animals will continue to suffer.

Take a good look at the NSW Companion Animal Act and then ask yourself, "how can we apply this to Victoria".

It has the basis for what you need in Victoria and it has a proven 15 years of operation behind it.

NSW Is not free of puppy farms but is in a better position than Victoria.

Souff

[shortstep]

Don't put words into my mouth and don't tell me what I do or don't believe, shortstep. I posted that to refute the belief that banning sales of puppies through pet shops will see the demise of puppy farmers. That is all.

You said

"It seems that breeders are happy enough to let puppy farms thrive as long as no one looks in their backyards.'

So what does that mean if it does not meant what you said?

What does ANKC breeders not wanting to be inspected have to do with banning puppy farms/ pet shops? (edited)

BTW your reponse says you are only talking about banning 'pet shops', so which is it, banning pet shops or banning puppy farms, that breeders want to see 'thrive' as demostrated by them not wanting to be inspected by the government or the RSPCA?

BTW an inspection is a whole lot more than looking in a backyard.

I asked, which is a question not a statement. A question you did not answer BTW.

"So you believe that to stop breeders like this one above, the government and the RSPCA need to go after every ANKC breeders who have nothing to do with the above situation?

You think that because ANKC breeders do not want to be treated like they are puppy mills that this means they want puppy mills to thrive?"

So put some of your own words in your mouth and answer the questions if you think I am misleading.

Edited September 21, 2010 by shortstep

[Gayle.]

I will answer when I'm not at work and not on my iPhone.

[Dame Aussie]

Oakway- that IS part of Oscars Law. For goodness sake, go and read what was being protested!!

Have you read it fully.

Are we talking about the same document the 117 page document.

ok shortstep. i'm officially confused. what is the 117 page document you're talking about? because a lot of what you think should be is actually included in the proposed oscar's law. we were asking for legislation to be drawn up, unless you are privvy to information that the rest of us don't know i think you may be confusing what we are proposing in victoria with what is in place in other states.

seriously oakway. i'm happy to discuss these issues because they are important. but i can't do that unless i actually know what you're trying to say.

and generally, yes. every time anything to do with legislation gets pulled into dol, we have the same argument. the RSPCA is evil, power hungry maniacs. i am getting a bit sick of it, but i will continue to say, i don't agree with the fact that they have a serious conflict of interest but someone needs to act, the state government has decided to give them that job, and they do it. are they perfect, no. do i believe they can fight dirty? yes if they think it is needed, as politicians can too. it is because they can be like a jrt after a rat that i think giving them the opportunity to go after puppy farmers is a good idea-they are waiting to be able to do it. (i'm not persoanlly 'up' on the debarking case you guys have mentioned, so there is no way i could ever make an educated comment on that)

BUT if that conflict of interest is your main bugbear then why not prepare a nicely worded and well researched document stating why this is the case and send it to honchos in police, and members of the upper and lower houses, even the mayor's office. nothing gets changed if you don't try, but if you come angry and full of hatred you won't be listened to. we know it is easier to get things done rather than undone, especially in victoria-which is the state we are talking about here, not nsw, qld, tasmania.

honestly, a lot of what you guys seem to be arguing about doesn't make sense when we are talking about the rally yesterday. no-one was trying to shut down breeding dogs, just trying to ensure that it occurs in an ethical way. nothing is set in stone and i'm sure that the organisers of the rally would have loved to have practical imput from registered ethical breeders to help define what constitutes unethical and how to shut it down. yes, there is the issue that all breeders may be targeted if the legislation is not drawn up carefully, a point i expressed to ted baillieu and he agreed. but the only way to ensure that the only 'breeders' we catch under the net of any new legislation is by talking and developing it so that it won't, that process should include registered breeders and their governing bodies, if they want to come to the party they are most welcome, even needed.

seriously, i've never heard people bashing regsitered breeders. i've only ever heard the fear from registered breeders that this is the case. perhaps i move in very educated circles? though i admit, i am frustrated that some people on dol get so angry and irritated about people buying from oet shops and don't seem to want to change that, in education or in legislation. it baffles me...

steve, i'm sorry, but if it takes your sense of justice to be offended to shut down these kinds of operations, then yes. i think a lot of people will have that be the cost. privacy is all very well but we can't fight secrecy and cruelty without dotting 'i's and crossing 't's. would you rather have your privacy and know that the ability to shut down those people in 'the back of boonies' are churning our poorly bred pups, with no thought for the bitch's and dog's welfare? i'm not sure, privacy is valued differently to everyone, but i reckon that having someone come and tick off your dogs conditions (which i don't doubt are fantastic, i'm not saying you don't care seriously for you animals and future homes) is a small price to ensure that sentient animals don't live in cages and unhealthy conditions (mental and physcial). though i'm sure we could have legislation that doesn't include someone ticking you off, as long as you abide by council and state laws, unless you are breeding more than a certain number of bitches/ or have a certain number of entire females-and in that case, a tick would be all that's needed...?

phew! sorry it is an essay!

I agree. I would be happy to be inspected if it meant places that weren't up to standard were being shut down.

I know that breeders feel strongly about their rights, but this isn't about the breeders rights, it's about the dogs rights.