Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[WreckitWhippet]

It's about getting rid of the puppy farmers alright and bugger the registered breeders who get screwed over in the process. I've heard over and again " it won't impact on the ethical breeders " , " if you are doing the right thing, then you have nothing to worry about "

bullcrap... and I can tell you now that there are ethical registered breeders, who treat their animals well, who have their front doors locked, gates bolted and fear the RSPCA now... never mind what it's going to be like when the bastards are given more power.

[Steve]

Look there is a big difference to having someone like me coming in to have a look at where you breed puppies and council and RSPCA coming in with checklists. We all know if the whole thing comes in the way its shaping up it wont be someone like me coming in to look at where you whelp your puppies or how you house your breeding dogs.

There is never any real figures shown as a result of solid research. No one really knows how many of these terrible breeders there are or how many puppies they breed are sold via pet shops, or how many end up unhealthy or poorly socialised or how many from pet shops end up in pounds. Tens of thousands of breeders are expected to be penalised and legislated out of existence because how many get it wrong?

[mita]

Look there is a big difference to having someone like me coming in to have a look at where you breed puppies and council and RSPCA coming in with checklists. We all know if the whole thing comes in the way its shaping up it wont be someone like me coming in to look at where you whelp your puppies or how you house your breeding dogs.

There is never any real figures shown as a result of solid research. No one really knows how many of these terrible breeders there are or how many puppies they breed are sold via pet shops, or how many end up unhealthy or poorly socialised or how many from pet shops end up in pounds. Tens of thousands of breeders are expected to be penalised and legislated out of existence because how many get it wrong?

The UQ study found the trend was towards registered breeders getting it right in socialising their puppies & controlling their litters. That means the significant number must be complying with the ethical guidelines of their Canine Association. Because you've have to do that, in order to get those outcomes.

There you have a ready-made case that the ethical guidelines of the Canine Associations are already making a significant positive impact on the breeding of purebred dogs. It's logical, then, that further emphasising self-regulation by the professional association would be a way to go. If something is working, just make the same thing work even better.

Simply introduce keeping of basic health care record cards plus Canine Association ethical guidelines in the form of self-checklists, and insert a requirement that a registered breeder is willing to have an Association representative visit. (Note, just be willing, not some schedule of visits). Rogue registered breeders can be picked up via these means & by (what others have mentioned) current council/kennel licensing requirements. It's at that level, there'd be a role for the RSPCA, which should be grateful that self-management would already have screened out as fine, the majority of registered breeders.

Those arguing for further laws to combat puppy-farming should be made aware of the UQ study findings.....which clearly found the worrying trends were more towards unregistered breeders.

Which means it would have been a good thing for a DOGS Vic registered breeder representing best practice breeding & raising of puppies, to have addressed that rally.

Edited September 20, 2010 by mita

[shortstep]

Look there is a big difference to having someone like me coming in to have a look at where you breed puppies and council and RSPCA coming in with checklists. We all know if the whole thing comes in the way its shaping up it wont be someone like me coming in to look at where you whelp your puppies or how you house your breeding dogs.

There is never any real figures shown as a result of solid research. No one really knows how many of these terrible breeders there are or how many puppies they breed are sold via pet shops, or how many end up unhealthy or poorly socialised or how many from pet shops end up in pounds. Tens of thousands of breeders are expected to be penalised and legislated out of existence because how many get it wrong?

Well with 1 million dogs born each year and ANKC breeders only breeding around 60,000. It is clear that we are just a drop in the bucket of dog breeding. Now the other many 100's of thousands that come from BYB and DD, they are just lost and will never see an inspector.

[Jed]

I thought the rally was a great idea. Puppy farms need to be stopped

The ONLY way to stop them is to ban the sales of pups in pet shops.

Nothing else is required. No convoluted legislation which requires hobby breeders to pay registration fees to some government department, and to pay an additional fee for an inspector to nosy about in their homes where their pups are bred

I know someone who has 300 dogs. He has council approval, and DPI approval for his very nice kennels and runs. The kennels are immaculate, and the dogs are all in good health.

So, the property would pass ANY inspection. The business is inspected annually by both council and DPI who are very happy.

The bitches are bred every season. They are shot (which is humane as far as I know) when they cannot breed. If it is not humane and approved by the RSPCA, they would be euthanased by the vet. Who does his work at a minimum cost, because there are so many dogs.

They do not receive any human attentiion apart from what is absolutely essential. Long haired breeds are clipped off to avoid grooming. They do not receive any socialisation, nor any affection.

He breeds schnauzers, dacshunds, labradors, retrievers, cockers, cavaliers and poodles - and crosses thereof.

Don't think all the puppy farms are those disgusting places on youtube - there are lots of puppy farms like the one above. And they are no better. The dogs are cleaner, that's all.

IT'S STILL WRONG.

LOBBY TO STOP THE SALE of PUPS IN PET SHOPS, NOT FOR MORE AND MORE UNWORKABLE LEGISLATION. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO DO.

Government will be swayed by the influential pet shop industry. They will not want to pass such a simple bill, pet shops and franchises will fight against it.

[Steve]

Look there is a big difference to having someone like me coming in to have a look at where you breed puppies and council and RSPCA coming in with checklists. We all know if the whole thing comes in the way its shaping up it wont be someone like me coming in to look at where you whelp your puppies or how you house your breeding dogs.

There is never any real figures shown as a result of solid research. No one really knows how many of these terrible breeders there are or how many puppies they breed are sold via pet shops, or how many end up unhealthy or poorly socialised or how many from pet shops end up in pounds. Tens of thousands of breeders are expected to be penalised and legislated out of existence because how many get it wrong?

The UQ study found the trend was towards registered breeders getting it right in socialising their puppies & controlling their litters. That means the significant number must be complying with the ethical guidelines of their Canine Association. Because you've have to do that, in order to get those outcomes.

There you have a ready-made case that the ethical guidelines of the Canine Associations are already making a significant positive impact on the breeding of purebred dogs. It's logical, then, that further emphasising self-regulation by the professional association would be a way to go. If something is working, just make the same thing work even better. Simply introduce keeping of basic health care record cards plus Canine Association ethical guidelines in the form of self-checklists, and insert a requirement that a registered breeder is willing to have an Association representative visit. (Note, just be willing, not some schedule of visits). Rogue registered breeders can be picked up via these means & by (what others have mentioned) current council/kennel licensing requirements. It's at that level, there'd be a role for the RSPCA, which should be grateful that self-management would already have screened out as fine, the majority of registered breeders.

Those arguing for further laws to combat puppy-farming should be made aware of the UQ study findings.....which clearly found the worrying trends were more towards unregistered breeders.

Yes but thats what we are already doing - see MDBA code of ethics for breeders but that wont make any difference. we will all be treated as if we are potentially pond scum.

there is something else here which is really bugging me and that is that everyone is just assuming that no one can possibly be doing the right thing by their dogs if they are not registered with the ANKC.

Thats just not necessarily true and this constant push just makes it easier to knock us down when we keep telling them we are better just because we are registering our pedigrees. If it were that simple we wouldn't be where we are now.

[mita]

Yes but thats what we are already doing - see MDBA code of ethics for breeders but that wont make any difference. we will all be treated as if we are potentially pond scum.

there is something else here which is really bugging me and that is that everyone is just assuming that no one can possibly be doing the right thing by their dogs if they are not registered with the ANKC.

Thats just not necessarily true and this constant push just makes it easier to knock us down when we keep telling them we are better just because we are registering our pedigrees. If it were that simple we wouldn't be where we are now.

No one is saying that individual people are not doing the right thing by their dogs, simply because they are not registered with the Kennel Association.

What the UQ study found is that problems lay more in the direction of unregistered breeders re the factors screened for. Not that all didn't.

Nor did the study say that individual people are doing the right thing by their dogs, simply because they are registered with the Kennel Association.

The study found that registered breeders were significantly more likely to do so, re the factors screened for. Not that all did.

Their study was a comparison of registered and unregistered breeders.

As concern has been expressed by registered breeders that they will be demonised/penalised as a result of efforts to cut out puppy-farming, it makes sense that their Kennel Association becomes the centre for their self-regulation according to the ethical guidelines. It is, after all, both their registering body & the source for their ethical guidelines.

Whatever unregistered breeders want to do, in the face of this move against puppy-farming, is over to them.

[mita]

know someone who has 300 dogs. He has council approval, and DPI approval for his very nice kennels and runs. The kennels are immaculate, and the dogs are all in good health.

So, the property would pass ANY inspection. The business is inspected annually by both council and DPI who are very happy.

The bitches are bred every season. They are shot (which is humane as far as I know) when they cannot breed. If it is not humane and approved by the RSPCA, they would be euthanased by the vet. Who does his work at a minimum cost, because there are so many dogs.

They do not receive any human attentiion apart from what is absolutely essential. Long haired breeds are clipped off to avoid grooming. They do not receive any socialisation, nor any affection.

He breeds schnauzers, dacshunds, labradors, retrievers, cockers, cavaliers and poodles - and crosses thereof.

Don't think all the puppy farms are those disgusting places on youtube - there are lots of puppy farms like the one above. And they are no better. The dogs are cleaner, that's all.

If puppies are sold to be companion pets from a place run like that, it's just as much a consumer issue.

There's plenty of scientific evidence that puppies need to be hard-wired for bonding with humans via socialisation in critical early weeks.

There's also evidence that the extent of socialisation of mother dogs has effects on puppies. A non-socialised mother does not provide the behavioral modelling which is also required.

Places that leave out this critical factor, should be exposed as not preparing puppies to be what they're sold for. Pets, companion dogs alongside humans.

(Which is why even the puppies bred to be military dogs are provided with the highest level of early & continuing socialisation.)

So another group that should be involved in stamping out puppy-farming, should be the Australian Consumers' Association, also known as CHOICE.

Who already set out some guidelines for people wanting to buy a companion puppy. Which maybe could be updated to take into account this critical issue.

Next rally or public forum on banning puppy farming should invite along not only the relevant Kennel Association, but also CHOICE.

Edited September 20, 2010 by mita

[Souff]

Serious question, what do you think that the pups raised in the establishment described by Souff miss out on?

Ok no takers so far, so I will wade in with some first hand observations of these dogs .....

They miss out on getting their claws painted with nail polish.

They miss out on wearing doggy pyjamas and other outfits modelled on humans clothing.

They miss out on diamante collars.

They miss out on fashion leads (although some of their show leads are very nice)

They miss out on sleeping in plastic four poster beds.

They miss out on having a fashion plate on the other end of the lead.

They miss out on having their own unique food bowl and have to suffer the indignity of having their s/s bowl taken away from them soon after eating, so it can be properly cleaned and ready for the next meal.

They miss out on being called 15 different cutesy-wutesy names that the owner changes in line with owners whims.

Some miss out on going to shows if they are not good enough; but that is no biggy for them anyway.

They dont miss out on being re-homed if that is appropriate, if the owner is the right candidate and can supply all that is given in this establishment and has a good track record.

They dont miss out on play, walks, swims, and great camaraderie with both humans and dogs.

They dont miss out on vaccinations and mainstream medication and veterinary treatment.

They dont miss out on massage and physiotherapy and herbal goodies and alternative therapies when needed.

They dont miss out on human interaction and learning discipline both from the pack leader (the human) and from the other dogs (as youngsters).

These are much loved and confident and valuable dogs, for many reasons.

But it is not the love that is lavished on many pet dogs today - a love that is almost smothering in some cases and is often stemming from the owners need to give love to something or someone, not necessarily the other way round.

This is a love that is combined with respect, both for the individual dog and for the breed and for the function of the breed ..... and all else that is this breed.

It is the healthy love and respect of a dog as a wonderful animal - a love that many dogs in pet homes today are missing out on.

Souff

Crisovar directed this question to me, and I answered as best I could, he/she responded again, then upon reflection, I agreed with Crisovar in that in this particular establishment, the dogs may not be missing out on anything!

I don't think anyone would think a dog that didn't get your first list of 'stuff' was missing out on anything important, and for the record my dogs don't get them either (well, except maybe the names :D).

I agree that some dogs in pet homes' needs aren't met, but that's not the discussion here, that's just you trying to make pet owners feel inferior to breeders. You probably took pleasure in writing that 'cheeky' list.

short-step- I was trying to 'get it', that's why I'm still here, but I give up, I'll leave it all to you breeders, because there's no way a pet-owner could even come close to knowing what is best for a dog. I never tried to insinuate that I 'knew best', in fact I mentioned quite a few times, that my knowledge was limited. I was trying to learn. Now I think I've learned why I usually stay away from controversy.

Sorry if I missed your reply Pip, I have just been popping in to the puter between a million other things today.

There are plenty of people who assume that a dog's emotional needs are not being met if the dogs are housed in kennels. The problem is that those people are often basing this accusation on THEIR knowledge of what they take to be THEIR dogs emotional needs. There can be a huge difference in dog's attitudes and "emotional needs" - from breed to breed, and also within a breed.

Some dogs need a LOT of human interaction - they depend on it and this can be applied to a lot of the smaller breeds, BUT not all! I know of some smaller dogs who really dont give two hoots if their owner is around much at all, other than to supply shelter and food. And many of us have met the aloof breeds who need to be respected, but not cuddled.

Their requirements of humans are totally different to that say of a Cavalier King Charles.

Anyone embarking on this subject really needs to do their research very thoroughly ... a lot more thoroughly than many of these people have done.

On another aspect of all this, while driving around this pm, Souff thought: "Wonder would happen if I put in a building application to build a kennel that could house 40 dogs".

Well I kneow what the answer would be from my local council, a resounding NO, so I would have to move this hypothetical application to another area, so let say we make it country Victoria. We would quickly have the illegal midinght raiders from ALV right on the case, it would be splashed all over the net, blah blah blah.

This bad person wants to have 40 dogs!!!!! How very dare they !!!!!

What they and their breeding opponent mates fail to realise that I may not have 40 dogs there at all.

I might have 6 or 8 breeding dogs, at best.

Souff tends to keep the oldies and they need somewhere to sleep too, my bedroom is no longer big enough.

Sometimes get talked into taking in somebody else's oldies too ....

But because I would have some empty runs, guess who would be available to take in the neighbours animals when the bushfires hit?

Guess who could help out with accommodation for the animal rescue services when a crisis hit them?

If the local pound burnt to the ground one night, they might even be able to ask me if I could take in a few boarders.

I have heard NONE of these community needs being covered in any of the many posts I have read where people are wanting to get rid of puppy farmers, but I know of many breeders who have helped out communities in crisis all over Australia. They had secure places for animals in crisis and they willingly offered those places to their community.

Where I live there was a major crisis if a bushfire happened at a weekend. Nobody had the keys to the local pound, vets where shut, etc.

There was a great scream in the papers later.

We had dozens of suburbs surrounded and cut off by bushfires and WE HAD NO EMERGENCY ACCOMMODATION FOR ANIMALS IN OUR AREA!

Oh dear, we forgot about that didn't we.

Who helped out in that crisis? The local dog breeders and boarding kennels.

But, you know what, you can bet your cotton pickin' boots that Souff would be immediately labelled as a PUPPY FARMER if that application for a 40 dog kennel went to council.

Oh yeah.

The more I think about it, the harder it is to take these people and this rally seriously. Narrow minded at best, dangerous at worst.

Souff

[Gayle.]

Stopping sales of puppies in pet stores doesn't address direct-to-public sales, exports or internet sales. Puppy farms will still continue to thrive and prosper.

[mita]

There are plenty of people who assume that a dog's emotional needs are not being met if the dogs are housed in kennels. The problem is that those people are often basing this accusation on THEIR knowledge of what they take to be THEIR dogs emotional needs. There can be a huge difference in dog's attitudes and "emotional needs" - from breed to breed, and also within a breed.

Some dogs need a LOT of human interaction - they depend on it and this can be applied to a lot of the smaller breeds, BUT not all! I know of some smaller dogs who really dont give two hoots if their owner is around much at all, other than to supply shelter and food. And many of us have met the aloof breeds who need to be respected, but not cuddled.

Their requirements of humans are totally different to that say of a Cavalier King Charles.

It's socialisation which is required for puppies. That's learning to form relationship with people. Both from people-contact at a critical early stage & from modelling from a socialised mother. This is a necessary base for later behaviours, for all breeds.

As to research. From the University of Qld Vet Connect, Summer 2008:

...studies show there is a 'critical socialisation' period for puppies between 5 and 14 weeks of age, when it is essential puppies become familiar with a wide range of experieces. That is vital for forming proper social relationships with people and other dogs, later in life.

If the puppies have not been socialised with people before 14 weeks of age, they are unable to form normal attachments with people.

[mita]

Stopping sales of puppies in pet stores doesn't address direct-to-public sales, exports or internet sales. Puppy farms will still continue to thrive and prosper.

Yes.

[shortstep]

Stopping sales of puppies in pet stores doesn't address direct-to-public sales, exports or internet sales. Puppy farms will still continue to thrive and prosper.

Yes.

The animal rights folks want to ban all exports of live animals from Australia. You will find support for this with all the animal rights groups.

Then you can wipe out sheep and beef exports, along with ethical ANKC breeders who place an occasional dog over seas to loving homes. BTW you might want to consider banning imports of dogs too. Think big.

Edited September 20, 2010 by shortstep

[Jed]

know someone who has 300 dogs. He has council approval, and DPI approval for his very nice kennels and runs. The kennels are immaculate, and the dogs are all in good health.

So, the property would pass ANY inspection. The business is inspected annually by both council and DPI who are very happy.

The bitches are bred every season. They are shot (which is humane as far as I know) when they cannot breed. If it is not humane and approved by the RSPCA, they would be euthanased by the vet. Who does his work at a minimum cost, because there are so many dogs.

They do not receive any human attentiion apart from what is absolutely essential. Long haired breeds are clipped off to avoid grooming. They do not receive any socialisation, nor any affection.

He breeds schnauzers, dacshunds, labradors, retrievers, cockers, cavaliers and poodles - and crosses thereof.

Don't think all the puppy farms are those disgusting places on youtube - there are lots of puppy farms like the one above. And they are no better. The dogs are cleaner, that's all.

If puppies are sold to be companion pets from a place run like that, it's just as much a consumer issue.

There's plenty of scientific evidence that puppies need to be hard-wired for bonding with humans via socialisation in critical early weeks.

There's also evidence that the extent of socialisation of mother dogs has effects on puppies. A non-socialised mother does not provide the behavioral modelling which is also required.

Places that leave out this critical factor, should be exposed as not preparing puppies to be what they're sold for. Pets, companion dogs alongside humans.

(Which is why even the puppies bred to be military dogs are provided with the highest level of early & continuing socialisation.)

So another group that should be involved in stamping out puppy-farming, should be the Australian Consumers' Association, also known as CHOICE.

Who already set out some guidelines for people wanting to buy a companion puppy. Which maybe could be updated to take into account this critical issue.

Next rally or public forum on banning puppy farming should invite along not only the relevant Kennel Association, but also CHOICE.

Every pup from that farm is sold via a pet shop. Nice healthy looking pups. Shops love them.

I wonder what problems the owners have with the pups as they grow up.

Mita, I would never allow any of my dogs to live with anyone else. The point is that I love my dogs - and I really enjoy having pups. If they lived with others they would not be my dogs.

It suits some breeders, but it doesn't suit others. There are a lot of nice male dogs in pet homes, as "back up" lines.

As to the question of selling pups to pet shops - All these places rely on pet shops taking the pups. $300 + for quality pups is a good price, and the pups are not hanging around, nor are people coming to the property. Puppy farms rely on pet shops to buy pups.

Pet shops are important. If you banned the sale of pups in shops, and farms were still thriving in 12 months, you could enact further legislation.

KISS principle.

Once pet shop sales were banned the heart would be ripped out of the puppy farm industry.

[Souff]

There are plenty of people who assume that a dog's emotional needs are not being met if the dogs are housed in kennels. The problem is that those people are often basing this accusation on THEIR knowledge of what they take to be THEIR dogs emotional needs. There can be a huge difference in dog's attitudes and "emotional needs" - from breed to breed, and also within a breed.

Some dogs need a LOT of human interaction - they depend on it and this can be applied to a lot of the smaller breeds, BUT not all! I know of some smaller dogs who really dont give two hoots if their owner is around much at all, other than to supply shelter and food. And many of us have met the aloof breeds who need to be respected, but not cuddled.

Their requirements of humans are totally different to that say of a Cavalier King Charles.

It's socialisation which is required for puppies. That's learning to form relationship with people. Both from people-contact at a critical early stage & from modelling from a socialised mother. This is a necessary base for later behaviours, for all breeds.

As to research. From the University of Qld Vet Connect, Summer 2008:

...studies show there is a 'critical socialisation' period for puppies between 5 and 14 weeks of age, when it is essential puppies become familiar with a wide range of experieces. That is vital for forming proper social relationships with people and other dogs, later in life.

If the puppies have not been socialised with people before 14 weeks of age, they are unable to form normal attachments with people.

Socialisation in the early weeks is absolutely vital. That is without question.

And good breeders, many of whom are here on DOL, can have kennels AND provide this socialisation as well.

But not many will be wanting to put in an application to build kennels in country Victoria.

Dogs need good dog breeders.

Having kennels should not imply that they wont socialise their dogs and puppies.

Souff

[Jed]

Stopping sales of puppies in pet stores doesn't address direct-to-public sales, exports or internet sales. Puppy farms will still continue to thrive and prosper.

Yes.

No, costs are high, there is a sales budget, without pet shops, the budget would not be met. Does anyone have any idea how many pups are sold in pet shops during a week?

Puppy farms only sell at the farm gate and via the net for "cream" sales - they might sell the litter for $300 each, but ask $1000 over the net. But they cannot move that number of pups over the net.

They rely on the pups being visible in major shoppng centres with foot traffic of 50,000 or so

Edited September 20, 2010 by Jed

[~Anne~]

Stopping sales of puppies in pet stores doesn't address direct-to-public sales, exports or internet sales. Puppy farms will still continue to thrive and prosper.

Yes.

No, costs are high, there is a sales budget, without pet shops, the budget would not be met. Does anyone have any idea how many pups are sold in pet shops during a week?

Puppy farms only sell at the farm gate and via the net for "cream" sales - they might sell the litter for $300 each, but ask $1000 over the net. But they cannot move that number of pups over the net.

They rely on the pups being visible in major shoppng centres with foot traffic of 50,000 or so

Really? (Genuine question)

Where does your knowledge come from?

I've always been of the opinion that they can and do move hundreds over a period of time. I would guesstimate that a high profile puppy farm would sell a minimum of 150 dogs a month through the net on a good month.

I think stopping the sale of puppies in pet shops would dampen the sales of some, but increase others.

[Gayle.]

This is the opening speil on the website of a very high profile, and unfortunately local to me, puppy farm. They do a roaring trade "at the farm gate" I believe.

They make it very easy for people to do business with them. No need to go via a pet shop, just phone or email. They even offer the international number format for buyers calling from overseas.

"Welcome to the xxxxxxxxxx Dog Rearing & Breeding Establishment, the experts in high quality Labradoodle, Schnoodle, Spoodle, Roodle and Maltese Poodle breeding. We are an Australian Government Registered Breeder with 20 years of experience breeding hypo-allergenic, non-shedding family companion dogs. Dog is man's best friend. If you suffer from allergies and would like a canine friend who will be a loyal companion for the rest of their life, then read our information pages or contact us to find out more about the allergy friendly, hypo-allergenic properties of our marvellous dogs. We know you will enjoy browsing our many pictures in the photo galleries or in the puppies for sale page. As we offer worldwide delivery, many of our puppies are now living happily interstate or overseas."

Edited September 20, 2010 by GayleK

[Gayle.]

And another one....also local to me. Gee, who needs to go to a pet shop? This is a family farm, warm welcomes come free. Also very easy to do business with....pick up the phone, drop them an email, you can even order your hearts desire.

"Breeders of spoodle, cavoodle, schnoodle.

Spoodles, Cavoodles, Schnoodles, are bred for their non shed, low allergy and great temperament.

We breed partie coloured, golden, black, white and other unique black and tans. Our pups are from top quality pure-bred dogs, spaniel mothers with poodle fathers, the pup is then a first cross (F1) to ensure health and hybrid vigour with the spoodle attribute of a wavy non-shed coat. This is called a spoodle or in the USA a cockerpoo, Read FAQ on F3+ crosses

Yet temperament and our professional service is still our priority and this is ensured with our breeding dogs, come and meet our girls. All our puppies come Desexed, Micro-chiped, Vaccinated and Vet checked and with a health guarantee

Farm visits are welcome come and see first hand the puppies and mothers in our modern welping nursery. See a real dog breeding complex. We are not puppy dealers or wholesalers. If you expect the best our pups are for you.

Please have a browse of our Oodles Gallery and Puppies for Sale feel free to give us a call, or use the Contact Us page to purchase a pup or send a message, check out our Location page, or come visit us and our puppies face to face! To order a puppy from xxxxxxxxxxx Farm, send your order via our Contact Us page.

We are the real deal being born and breed in the Gippsland heartland you can count on us we know and love animals.

This is a family business employing local people so give us a call and and speak to Liz or Larry daughter Jo or son Max."

[asal]

whats with this?

19 pages of mutual grooming over shutting down puppy farms?

Judy Guard is facing what is it "an 82 year jail sentence for showing her dog! Because that's the crux of it really. People serve less time for rape and murder. The VCA couldn't give a rats arse so long as the RSPCA don't shut them down, the thing that they fail to see is that is exactly what is happening except that it is inch by inch instead of the one fell swoop that the VCA is scared off.

I just find the whole thing completely disgusting and totally demoralising. I don't have much but I'd like to send some assistance her way do I do that through you guys Steve? "

ok a cut a pasted quote from her thread.

but someone here show me any puppy farm facing 82 years?

get real, this is a registered breeder facing 82 years........ for showing a debarked dog.....how slow is everyone?

this is where the priority lies

there will only be puppy farms left.

barring a miracle n that doesnt look like happening any time soon, only the soft targets like Judy seem to be on the horizon

Edited September 20, 2010 by asal