Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[toy dog]

On thing this has brought into the daylight is that unless we stand on a united front we are not going to get anywhere.

Unless we have the financial backing from one of the media groups to push our case I can see all our efforts going down the drain.

in victoria here it was spoken about a couple of years ago that we need a media person to handle media stuff, but lots of members wanted a celeb to rival the gardener, i beleive they did get someone but it really needs to be someone well known that people can follow. see, oscarlaw people have chris brown now Bondi Vet he is a hit with SOME ladies not all, but he is just pushing for puppy farms, we really need someone well known like that.

bondi vet i asked at my breed club about him what did they think and some ladies said...."oh he is an idiot".....i think they saw his blunder about promoting a petshop husky at PP.

on burkes backyard there use to be a vet on there then he left that was pushing pedigrees as soon as he left the gardener went to town. i forget his name but he was very well known.

thats where all this madness began i believe.

[toy dog]

just as i tried to explain, if you eliminate "backyard breeders" you are backing eliminating yourself. EVERYONE, has a backyard. be it 1 mtr square or 100 miles square.. .... n look where its got moi

your beginning to sound a little like what i was thinking 20 years ago ?

and yes i know. we all have backyard i could be called a backyard breeder too. but that is the term that has stuck. what else do you call them thats not long winded but some people go, whats that anyway.

[asal]

trouble is look at the mess they made of the tail docking law, shoved in its a crime to "exhibit" debarked dogs and Judy Guard is first in the net. n what does that have to do with puppy farms??

they are busy sowing legal minefields with every one of these new laws and even though its amazing how many politicions studied law before politics. im rapidly comming to the conclusion their main point of study was the confusing of jury's/joe public. not law drafting. the amount of additions shoved in, for whatever reasons, n I dont seem to recall anyone enlightening us how making it a crime to show a debarked dog has anything whatso ever with eleminating or preventing cruelty or puppy farming anywhere whatsoever.

but its now law and someone/organisation is standing to make a nice pot of mula out of Judy.

n the bell wether dog paid with its life because the vet decided it wasnt socalised properly.. considering it was a ex showdog n no one has mentioned it was ever banned from the ring for attacking a judge, i would somehow have to presume it was not savage?

since when was not showing affection to a complete stranger, even if said complete stranger is a vet with the power of life and death over you if you dont adore em on sight how is it now acceptable said vet can say its not socalised enough and should be put down? AND DOES SO, dont forget. loves doggies all right. but only Affectionate doggies it seems.

this in a breed that even the standard describes as aloof?

does this mean every afgan, maremma, cattledog, so many of such breeds will be decimated of all representatives that dont fawn to, and run to ,complete strangers?

theres far more implications and precedents rearing their noses just over that one.. whats hiding, yet to see light of day we dont know yet?

Edited October 14, 2010 by asal

[asal]

just as i tried to explain, if you eliminate "backyard breeders" you are backing eliminating yourself. EVERYONE, has a backyard. be it 1 mtr square or 100 miles square.. .... n look where its got moi

your beginning to sound a little like what i was thinking 20 years ago ?

and yes i know. we all have backyard i could be called a backyard breeder too. but that is the term that has stuck. what else do you call them thats not long winded but some people go, whats that anyway.

true.. so its neatly shortened and your just as likely to be netted n eliminated as Judy Guard.

ho well, maybe it should be considered exciting to see who gets meshed and eliminated n who gets missed in the hunt.

as so many have said in the past. the elimination of innocents happens in a war, they are called, "collateral damage" maybe those so eliminated can stand proud they contributed to the fall of those actually aimed at eliminating?

except only they will know they were not the target.

the ones not eliminated will all firmly believe they and they only were fit and proper.

the "where theres smoke theres fire" brigade dont believe theres such a thing as

"collateral damage", or "friendly fire" could kill or eliminate an innocent

Edited October 14, 2010 by asal

[asal]

I simply have to stop this .

walk away n lock these things out of my head.

nothing was believed 20 years ago or more when the hunt began and collateral damage is irreversable and as inevitable here as it is in war. may as many of you as possible miss stopping a bullet.

wonder if i will be around long enough to see if theres any survivors?

[toy dog]

trouble is look at the mess they made of the tail docking law, shoved in its a crime to "exhibit" debarked dogs and Judy Guard is first in the net. n what does that have to do with puppy farms??

it doesn't from what i understand that was the RSPCA doing their thing again, as was tail docking. they managed to get that through so now they are trying to get other issues through. they have too much say when they should stick to what they know best and that is rehoming dogs at their shelters, they aren't the authority on all dog issues breeding genetics but it looks like they have quite a say on this based on PDE and their peple not actually going out in the dogworld and seeing for themselves that that DOCO is not the complete picture but yet they are still quoting direct from the doco to the normal citizen in Oz against pedigree dogs.

why isn't the ANKC or our controlling body demanding they take this crap off their website? maybe the members should be demanding instead of just sitting their copping it. i dont' know. but its terribly damaging i took great offense of it and emailed them and i got more unfounded crap from RSPCA in their emails from a person that probably hasn't set foot in any reg breeders circles or dogs shows but still they seem to think they know everything about pedigree dogs.

grrrrrrrr

i need to get out of this thread too i am getting upset again. this is what im doing.

[mortonplace]

BUMP

Steve im a vicdog member,MBDA mmber,Frenchbulld dog club,Boston terrier club member.

And from what i read the MBDA is the only membership that could help me.

l WANT to keep my 10 dogs ...l want to be able to breed to improve whats in my yard

SO PLEASE what should we do...???????

lm willing to help in anyway possible as the shire[wellington]will be trying there dammedest to cut down the number of dogs VCA member can own.

These new regulations are made to make the piulic belive its to cut down Puppyfarms here,but it also includes US[VICDOG MEMBERS]

IM NOT HERE TO HELP THE PUPPYFAMERS JUST US...IS THIS POSSIBLE???

[Steve]

Im going to take your answer to another thread .

[mortonplace]

Thanks Steve id be very intersted to comply please let me know were the other thread is Thanks

[oakway]

Thanks Steve id be very intersted to comply please let me know were the other thread is Thanks

One of the greatest problems will be that we are scattered all over the country and unless we ALL support one organization we will ALL lose out.

We already know of the problems we have because we have NO single controlling canine body.

[mortonplace]

Thanks Steve id be very intersted to comply please let me know were the other thread is Thanks

One of the greatest problems will be that we are scattered all over the country and unless we ALL support one organization we will ALL lose out.

We already know of the problems we have because we have NO single controlling canine body.

Thus why i belive we should stand united and help each state...

Our controlling bodies to each state will not help as there just really a registry[to take our money]and not help/stand by us

We need to get a group of people join the MBDA and help fight this togther.[our own ethical bible]

lf we keep just sitting back we WILL lose all our rights..

EVERYONE needs to get together and protest WE are diffrent to the Puppyfarmers there trying to place us all in the same basket

Once these laws are approved were STUFFED....There will be on way we will be able to change there new laws.

l WANT to whelp my dogs indoors

l DONT WANT my dogs on concrete

l WANT to keep my breeding stock

l WANT to get together with other dog fanciers to STOP these people putting US in the same basket

Edited October 14, 2010 by mortonplace

[oakway]

Thanks Steve id be very intersted to comply please let me know were the other thread is Thanks

One of the greatest problems will be that we are scattered all over the country and unless we ALL support one organization we will ALL lose out.

We already know of the problems we have because we have NO single controlling canine body.

Thus why i belive we should stand untited and help each state

I can't see an objection to one organisation fighting for our very existence lord knows NONE of our state bodies has come to the aid of the party.

Also nobody come on here and try and tell me that we have the ANKC because that is a joke between persons that hold state membership.

[Erny]

Thanks Steve id be very intersted to comply please let me know were the other thread is Thanks

One of the greatest problems will be that we are scattered all over the country and unless we ALL support one organization we will ALL lose out.

We already know of the problems we have because we have NO single controlling canine body.

Thus why i belive we should stand untited and help each state

I can't see an objection to one organisation fighting for our very existence lord knows NONE of our state bodies has come to the aid of the party.

Also nobody come on here and try and tell me that we have the ANKC because that is a joke between persons that hold state membership.

The stronger MDBA's membership, the better .

[Steve]

Answer here

And I hope it will help to explain why a Group such as the MDBA which represents Breeders and rescue members is not happy about supporting a rally for changing laws.

I think at least the majority of people will be able to understand it rather than just see us as not doing our bit to stamp out puppy farming.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=207128

Under no condition should anyone who owns or breeds a dog run with animal lib regardless of whether you think thats not so bad or not.

If they back it - get the hell away from it.

[puggy_puggy]

And I hope it will help to explain why a Group such as the MDBA which represents Breeders and rescue members is not happy about supporting a rally for changing

I am to believe that several rescue groups that belong to the MDBA attended the rally and support change.

[Steve]

And I hope it will help to explain why a Group such as the MDBA which represents Breeders and rescue members is not happy about supporting a rally for changing

I am to believe that several rescue groups that belong to the MDBA attended the rally and support change.

Yep they did and so did some of our breeders. Supporting change is a good thing and I also support change because if things stay the same dogs will continue to suffer. We all agree that stopping puppy farmers would be a good thing. I just happen to think the way its being done is wasting resources and will cause un intended consequences for both breeders and rescue.

I understand why they think the way they do and I have said over and over rallying against puppy farmers is a good thing. I dont support law changes though and thats the difference.I also dont support going after them when they apply for a DA. I certainly don't think any of our members who attended are anti ethical breeder. I guess thats one of the reasons Im trying to explain why we are against the methodology and why we don't support the rally. I happen to think that rescue is going to suffer out of this too - as environmental planning will dictate what they can and cant do as well especially after some of the things being said and about to happen in the back ground. No one said we have to agree on everything to be united on the basics.

[asal]

had this thoughts as i was doing the breakies this morning. not sure if its free of confusions so hard to work out the best wording but here goes.

Shows, showing n where the breeds really came from. n why the other side sees showing as the dark side.

Reading all the reasons given and or bandied about for the elimination of “backyarders” (when we all have them) and puppy farmers when in the eyes of the animal welfare’s n libbers if u breed you’re a puppy farmer.

The one thing the majority belive shows they are “ethical” is they show or if they are not currently show, breeding “show” quality.

What every registered breeder has failed to realise, is the SHOW ring did not create the breeds we know and love. They were created by backyarder’s. Bred for a purpose to the “standard” of the breeders choice. Parson Jack Russel created the what?

The German Coolie/Koolie has been a highly regarded working dog in this country for centuaries, no one here has bothered to apply to any ankc to make them a registrable showable breed.

It took some yanks on the other side of the world to go to the trouble and have em lobb back here as Australian shepherds?

Now just why may this be so?

Pretty simple really, same reason the Australian working kelpie has its own registry n not shown

Since the advent of dog shows the showring has proven time and time again to refashion the breed year by year with no regard for the very qualities that it became a breed. Only the outer shell is “improved” daily, yearly monthly, as the standard is so easily reinterprated in some cases reinvented.

Nobody could honestly say the british bulldog is the same breed it was 200 years ago. Its morphed into a stumpy legged caricature of the the animal it once was. Ditto for breed after breed all “improved “ until their creators would undoubly be unable to recognise them as descended from their kennel.

Since when was any breed improved by the inability to be selected for unassisted whelping? Ceaseraians except in the case of a malpresention is now in many breeds more the norm than the exception, that in no streatch of the imagination should be construed as improvement surely. As for the Chihuahua standard. Here was a breed thousands of years old, reproducing in the jungles of south America, no vets there. The second it became a “show” dog the standard had in it “the more dimunative preferred” and the scaling down has been impressive to what benefit to the breed? Only now has that stupid sentence been removed, n not about time. As for the morphing of them from the dog found to the dog today is not sticking to the Aztec standard they wouldn’t recognise their little dog today.

So to these “breeders” show is symomous with destruction, pretty much like the “pedigree dogs exposed program”.

I have never heard the working dog breeds exposing the elimination of “backyarders” they are smart enough to twigg that means everyone. Unlike the show sceanies.

So those who do not think they have jumped into bed with the animal libbers are certainly seen to have done so by many with a different perspective.

[asal]

this 'morphing' does not just apply to the dog world.

i well remember my friend coming home from a cat club meeting crying, yes crying. it had been pushed through to remove "pleasant expression" from the persian standard so the grimacing gargoyles with noses so short thats all they could do, grimace, but now thanks to those who prefered their even flatter faced hardly breathe look, could now win.

as for the arabian.

thousands of years bred for soundness remodeled in a few decades to what? friend paid 7,000 for a ribbon winning colt, he could never ride, he had so much "animation" he would rear and go over backwards without warning. but hey, the judgs want animation, that's more important than sense now apparently, n hey the judges don't ride em, think the fool who coined the phrase "living work of art " needed shooting, that in a breed once noted for its temperament, n excellence as a saddle horse

at least i suppose we can thank our lucky stars there's not 400 kg dogs can land on u

Edited October 16, 2010 by asal

[Household Dog]

Hi,

I am fairly new here, basically just looking for a Mini Schnauzer for my family.

I am desperately trying to avoid buying from a Puppy farm or bad breeder. I am running into troubles doing this, however.

As far as I can tell the associations aren't really in the business of policing their members. I could be wrong about this, but there are statements on the Dogs Victoria website, that seem to indicate, even registered breeders could be dodgy.

So as a general member of the public, looking for a certain breed, there is very little, firm information available.

[Cosmolo]

Hi Household dog and welcome. I have a client who has 2 mini schnauzers from the same ethical registered breeder and they are quite honestly the best mini schnauzers i have ever met- physically and their temperaments. Let me know if you would like me to find out the breeders name- they are in Victoria too. Word of mouth is probably the best way to find the breeder for you.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Cosmolo