Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[toy dog]

i guess they are speaking about ordering a puppy from a factory online sight unseen. i get alot of emails from the public because i invite it on my website and i had one lady tell all the breeders (cc'd everyone) that she'd been cheated ordering a puppy online from a bogus breeder but when you think about it DOL is linked to breed assoc, kennel clubs and ANKC gives out contact details so people can contact us direct and see parents. so hopefully people will know the difference but it is a bit vague really isn't it.

I have in my site "screening breeders" etc. maybe they should put that on so people know the difference.

[oakway]

Maybe we could take a leaf out the Toy Dog Club of North Queensland's book and take the dogs to the public instead of asking them to come to us.

what did they do, thats very interesting? are you in vic? dogsvic had a dog show in the middle of federation square in melbourne and they plan to have more in the future, it was a virtual dog show to demonstate to the public about dog shows and it was apparently a great hit. wasn't many toys there but if they do it next time i think i will ask our club to participate with our chihuahuas and get a few people together.

No I'm not in Vic.

As far as I can remember they held the show in a Shopping Mall.

Appeared to be a great success.

[toy dog]

Maybe we could take a leaf out the Toy Dog Club of North Queensland's book and take the dogs to the public instead of asking them to come to us.

what did they do, thats very interesting? are you in vic? dogsvic had a dog show in the middle of federation square in melbourne and they plan to have more in the future, it was a virtual dog show to demonstate to the public about dog shows and it was apparently a great hit. wasn't many toys there but if they do it next time i think i will ask our club to participate with our chihuahuas and get a few people together.

No I'm not in Vic.

As far as I can remember they held the show in a Shopping Mall.

Appeared to be a great success.

sorry it says it right there, TAS.

that would be a lot of fun! good idea too.......hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Steve]

Anything that can be done to show healthy purebred dogs is a great thing as that demonstrates to the public what great dogs we breed and that they arent all falling to bits but promoting purebreds isnt going to prevent laws coming in which will affect purebred breeders and how they house and keep their dogs. How and where they advertise them etc.

Registered breeders are leaving in droves and according to our research the biggest reason for this is over regulation of their hobby.Its time we told the truth,stopped just going along with teh propoganda in order to feel superior and accepted that just because we can register our pups on a pedigree data base owned by the ANKC and compete in shows that isnt an instant tick and when we think we are immune because we are superior we are in fact every bit as much a target as anyone who breeds dogs - regardless of how they breed them.

There will be no law changes in this country to stop commercial dog breeding - some may make it a bit harder but there will always be some breeders who breed lots and lots of dogs for nothing more than money. Sales of live animals in pet shops will not be stopped until such time as there is valid and real research to prove what we think is true and that is years away.

So rather than running with animal lib and supporting a rally for more laws and stopping sales of puppies in pet shops - using up all of this energy on trying to stop commercial breeding which will effectively stop us breeding before it stops them there are many other things that should be happening and its time we stood up for ourselves and took back some control for the sake of our dogs.

[oakway]

Anything that can be done to show healthy purebred dogs is a great thing as that demonstrates to the public what great dogs we breed and that they arent all falling to bits but promoting purebreds isnt going to prevent laws coming in which will affect purebred breeders and how they house and keep their dogs. How and where they advertise them etc.

Registered breeders are leaving in droves and according to our research the biggest reason for this is over regulation of their hobby.Its time we told the truth,stopped just going along with teh propoganda in order to feel superior and accepted that just because we can register our pups on a pedigree data base owned by the ANKC and compete in shows that isnt an instant tick and when we think we are immune because we are superior we are in fact every bit as much a target as anyone who breeds dogs - regardless of how they breed them.

There will be no law changes in this country to stop commercial dog breeding - some may make it a bit harder but there will always be some breeders who breed lots and lots of dogs for nothing more than money. Sales of live animals in pet shops will not be stopped until such time as there is valid and real research to prove what we think is true and that is years away.

So rather than running with animal lib and supporting a rally for more laws and stopping sales of puppies in pet shops - using up all of this energy on trying to stop commercial breeding which will effectively stop us breeding before it stops them there are many other things that should be happening and its time we stood up for ourselves and took back some control for the sake of our dogs.

I agree with what you say.

But we must also get the public to see us in a better light.

[Steve]

Yes agreed but show casing our dogs isnt the same as promoting us.

Even the fact that the CCs are now introducing accredited breeder schemes which do nothing more than tell us someone who is accredited is doing what we all should be doing anyway undermines and brings down what a registered breeder is and what websites like Oscar law have been telling everyone we have already been doing.

Being an accredited breeder with Dogs NSW when it comes in is not going to help any dogs and it certainly isnt going to help our image - in fact it brings it down.

But we will all race off and pay the extra money and feel nice and snuggly in our superiority - use it to put down breeders who have decided not to pay the extra money and thats not going to fool anyone looking at making new laws.

Ill post this again.

Which part of this is going to make any difference to what a registered breeder has already been assumed to be doing? So does mean anyone who doesnt pay the extra money is assumed NOT to be doing these things? Come in suckers.

Part XIII (A).

Dogs NSW Voluntary Accredited Breeder Scheme (effective 1 January 2011).

To qualify as an Accredited Breeder a member would agree to the following and pay such

annual fees and complete and sign an Application in such form as the Directors may from time

to time require :-

CONDITIONS OF MEMBERSHIP OF VOLUNTARY ACCREDITED BREEDERS

SCHEME

i) pre-mating disease testing of prospective parents

Note: “Disease testing” means;

a) testing for health conditions which are notified by the Breed Club, ANKC or DOGS

NSW as relevant to the breed, and for which scientifically validated, reliable, readily

available and cost effective screening procedures are available.

b) DNA tests for hereditary diseases that are available in the relevant breed.

ii) subject to veterinary advice, no mating where tests indicate inadvisable

iii) microchip puppies prior to sale

iv) puppy microchip numbers to be included in Application to Register Litter (unless

Veterinary advice to the contrary)

v) presale veterinary checks on puppies with written report by veterinary surgeon

vi) copies of parent test results and puppy vet check results to be made available to

prospective purchasers

vii) prospective purchasers can, prior to purchase, view puppies with mother where litter was

born and raised (Note 1)

viii) provide detailed information for puppy care and welfare to purchasers (Note 2)

ix) to observe proper standards of management with regard to the housing, health, exercising

and socialising of all dogs on the premises managed by the registered breeder, including

establishing minimum staffing levels appropriate to the numbers of dogs involved

(Note 3)

x) inspection of kennels and records when requested by DOGS NSW

xi) non compliance may result in deregistration or suspension from scheme (Note 5)

xii) scheme to be varied and/or upgraded from time to time as circumstances and conditions, in

the opinion of the Directors, require. Accredited breeders will be required to agree to and

abide by variations and/or alterations to the Rules of the Scheme from time to time to

maintain their Accreditation.

Notes:

1) This rule will not apply to a litter after the pups have been weaned where the mother and

pups will be residing in separate premises.

2) All relevant documentation connected with the puppy including, inter alia, advice on

feeding and care, registration documents (if already issued), details of vaccinations etc are

handed over to the purchaser at the time of sale. When an appropriate contract is

available this should be signed by both parties.

If registration documents are not available at time of sale breeder must comply with Dogs

NSW Regulations Part I – Register & Registration, clauses 13.9 to 13.11 inclusive.

3) It is strongly recommended that Accredited Breeders follow the guidelines contained in the

NSW Animal Welfare Code of Practice “Breeding dogs and Cats”.

4) Accolades to Accredited Breeders under this scheme are based solely on high welfare

standards.

5) Complaints received in respect of an accredited Breeder/s will be referred to the Dogs

NSW Judiciary Investigative Panel and be dealt with under the Inquiry Rules and

regulations.

[shortstep]

So does mean anyone who doesnt pay the extra money is assumed NOT to be doing these things? Come in suckers. quote]

Sure does mean that.

This will just cost breeders more and do nothing. But more importantly the new bigger and more important question will then be...Why is there a Dog Registered ANKC that allows some members to function below acceptable standards? ANKC will then be guilty of contributing to below acceptable standards of dog breeding when ever they register a non accredited breeders pups.

Another point scored for animal rights and another 'never got the point' for ANKC who is always played the fool.

What is the original point of Accredited breeder? I thought it was to address Pedigree dogs exposed and the Unis claims which are sick dog, inbreeding and structural extremes.

Edited September 26, 2010 by shortstep

[asal]

really makes the case that the majority of dog breeders are not too intelliegent doesnt it?

but hey... pay up....u may be dumb.....BUT U ARE SUPERIOUR :D

[oakway]

One would think that the controlling bodies had more sense than to introduce more rules.

What with the decline in membership and registrations would you not think that their very jobs may be on the line next if this decline continues.

The way many are not renewing memberships, would you not think that you as a Controlling Body you are doing something wrong ?.

Maybe we should start at the grass roots of the problem....the Controlling Bodies.

[toy dog]

hmm yah i think the older more experienced breeders are already doing all that they listed there. maybe newies might want to do that but the more experienced won't fall for it. bit of a waste of money is how i see it.

this is how the public see us, we are a bunch of snobs and dog shows are only there to judge the prettiest dogs. it has no other function. i get lots of people telling me how poorly bred pedigrees are. most breeders they think breed dogs for $ no other reason.

so i go around trying to explain and most people are surprised.

if we aren't approachable to the public and friendly and explain and educate people in what we do, no one will ever know and go straight into the arms of a petshop or DD breeder instead.

i've had breeders hang up on me when i decided to go into another breed besides the one in my avatar, hardly a good experience for me so imagine a new person what they'd think about that. and this is people who had their phone number listed. the breed club was not much better, all the in fighting amongst the members. as a consequence this breed did not get many new people starting off showing and breeding they are a breeds future and they did not have members comps for the public to view the breed and us to showcase our breed.

puts people off and gives them a stunted view of pedigree dogs in general i believe. think it starts at breed club level.

[toy dog]

One would think that the controlling bodies had more sense than to introduce more rules.

What with the decline in membership and registrations would you not think that their very jobs may be on the line next if this decline continues.

The way many are not renewing memberships, would you not think that you as a Controlling Body you are doing something wrong ?.

Maybe we should start at the grass roots of the problem....the Controlling Bodies.

had a talk over the years about that very thing, why did they (breeders) think there was a decline? got many answers, from the economy, to fuel prices going up and not many people interested in showing and can't afford to pay for studs. but basically the answer centred around money. if that is true why is sale prices of DD's going up and many people buying them as opposed to a pedigree.

what i can't work out too, if people buy these DD for alot of $ say 1200 bucks why then are we seeing an increase of dumped DD's in shelters when most cost that much?

Edited September 27, 2010 by toy dog

[Steve]

When we did our survey a couple of weeks ago the vast majority of breeders said that over regulation would be or was the main reason they walked away.

It will be the reason I stop.

[toy dog]

really makes the case that the majority of dog breeders are not too intelliegent doesnt it?

but hey... pay up....u may be dumb.....BUT U ARE SUPERIOUR

is the little person beside the sign, you? don't look that happy. ;)

[toy dog]

When we did our survey a couple of weeks ago the vast majority of breeders said that over regulation would be or was the main reason they walked away.

It will be the reason I stop.

that might be so for breeders already there, but for new members many seem to think it is the money factor. i tend to think it is the DD factor taking over the popularity contest.

[oakway]

I will also be walking away shortly as I just can't keep up with the regulations that will be placed on me.

What I have from those last few matings will see me through.

[Steve]

When we did our survey a couple of weeks ago the vast majority of breeders said that over regulation would be or was the main reason they walked away.

It will be the reason I stop.

that might be so for breeders already there, but for new members many seem to think it is the money factor. i tend to think it is the DD factor taking over the popularity contest.

I cant imagine why anything that happens with Designer dogs should impact on us at all.

They are not our competition and when they become more popular it doesnt mean our dogs are less popular.

People who would prefer purebred dogs will still want purebred dogs.

Why do we have to spend energy on bagging out DD breeders and DD dogs? All we need to do is to do the right thing by the dogs we breed and the people we sell our puppies to. Promote why purebred dogs suit us and some people more than other dogs do and stop pretending that as a group we are automatically differernt and superior because we can register our pedigrees on an ANKC registry.We should be wearing our prefixes as if they are a designer brand and standing proud of what we do and the dogs we breed rather than joining forces with animal lib and focusing on what they say is needing to be changed.

[toy dog]

Why do we have to spend energy on bagging out DD breeders and DD dogs? All we need to do is to do the right thing by the dogs we breed and the people we sell our puppies to. Promote why purebred dogs suit us and some people more than other dogs do and stop pretending that as a group we are automatically differernt and superior because we can register our pedigrees on an ANKC registry.We should be wearing our prefixes as if they are a designer brand and standing proud of what we do and the dogs we breed rather than joining forces with animal lib and focusing on what they say is needing to be changed.

i dont know whether you'd call it bagging dd breeders and DD dogs, i'd call it educating people about them telling them the truth as a breeder and knowing the pitfalls of buying and breeding a cross bred as compared to a pedigree. promoting yes.

thats just the problem, many don't bother to do anything just sit there in their knowledge that a pedigree dog is better meanwhile DD's are being promoted all over the place and the pedigree dogs are being run down, this is in the media where the majority of people listen to what is said. meanwhile DD's are taking the homes that a pedigree could fill tht is because the public is being given incorrect information about DD's from the DD breeders and owners themselves.

the pedigree gets put on the back burner because there is nothing but crickets chirping i am sorry to say the majority of the time.

no one is asking ANKC breeders to join forces with anyone.....individual people who happen to be registered breeders just support the cause of closing down puppy mills the majority that they are wanting to close down and what oscar law people are talking about are in Gippsland in Welllington shire where the raid took place the same place my family lives, most of these farms have DD's so i do not fully understand why pedigrees were brought up and why many feel reg breeders are being targetted. they also want to ban sales in petshops but i myself do not support banning online and newspaper advertisements as it was pointed out. Some may not support or agree with laws that RSPCA are trying to bring in either adn i still don't have any idea if Oscar Law people are standing with the RSPCA on getting that bill through, people on here seem to think so but i need hard evidence and i still don't see it on their website where they do state all those things i've put down above.

but because a person loves animals and would like to see these things happen (banning sales in petshops and banning puppy farms) doesn't mean they have to be a hard core animal libber and be called you guys and us.......in this form only without all the other crap tacked on from the RSPCA though i do support those two things.

sure it might be a few years to see this done but we can hope can't we? what is wrong with hoping that this might happen? with demanding from our polies to get it done? its all about those little dogs in those farms and suffering being bred to buggery everyday that is a seperate issue from US you a right?

Edited September 27, 2010 by toy dog

[shortstep]

Maybe we should start at the grass roots of the problem....the Controlling Bodies.

I think that ANKC could be run better, have bigger goals and do more for the members, however I do not think that are the grass roots of the problem.

That belongs to the animal rights groups, they have started and keep pushing any issue then can that will make trouble or help lead to the end of ownership of dogs.

We as registered breeders are just one group of dog owners that are in the way of animal rights groups reaching their goal.

Edited September 27, 2010 by shortstep

[shortstep]

I cant imagine why anything that happens with Designer dogs should impact on us at all.

They are not our competition and when they become more popular it doesnt mean our dogs are less popular.

People who would prefer purebred dogs will still want purebred dogs.

Why do we have to spend energy on bagging out DD breeders and DD dogs? All we need to do is to do the right thing by the dogs we breed and the people we sell our puppies to. Promote why purebred dogs suit us and some people more than other dogs do and stop pretending that as a group we are automatically differernt and superior because we can register our pedigrees on an ANKC registry.We should be wearing our prefixes as if they are a designer brand and standing proud of what we do and the dogs we breed rather than joining forces with animal lib and focusing on what they say is needing to be changed.

Could not agree more. DD dogs have no impact on purebred dogs. If people want to pay 1500 for a mutt let them. There will still be heaps of people who will want a well bred purebred dog. I also agree about the prefix, it is something to be proud of and should be treated as such.

[Fleuri]

Please don’t give up, please find some way to promote your beautiful pure breed dogs. I don’t know the ins and outs of all that is being inflicted on you as breeders and the consequences of this (though I have read of some) but please try to find a way to proceed and promote and continue producing your beautiful pure breed dogs.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people in our society that are ignorant to how valuable you are and lack education on the great value of owning a pure breed dog. The feel that I’m getting is that owning a purebred dog is like an old thing of the past or something that is for certain people who have that ‘acquired taste ’. I don’t think pure breeds are being promoted very well.

Perhaps there are many breeders that would say well, I’m only selling a pup to those that will appreciate my breed and who bother researching my breed, all those silly people who are only after those designer dogs are too stupid or do not deserve my dogs anyway. The thing is that many people will most likely buy a pure breed if they only knew what an honour it is to own one. If they knew its history and all the hard work that’s put into producing such healthy well-adjusted well breed dogs. There are many people that appreciate quality. I also appreciate that you need to protect your breed from undesirable potential owners. I think a lot of good will come out of promoting/educating others about your breeds than keeping them only for the few already educated in our society or just for those who bother to educate themselves.

Please excuse me if I’m getting the wrong vibes hear of what’s actually happening. I am only going from what I have been reading and just a general feel of some of the other threads I have read. Also by noticing the lack of promoting of the pedigree dog in our society.