Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[toy dog]

odd ???? u sounded perfectly sane, non threathening to moi???? did i miss something

you really shouldnt be inviting anyone to start shooting. plenty do it anyway without provocation. so dont worry bullets fly anywhere doggie people meet, greet, and remarkably frequently,,,,,,snarl and start snapping

oh ok i'll come back, ;) and i know i really shouldn't be taking things so personally particularly when im in a debate.

half the time you are dealing with people that don't want to be educated, can't be bothered being educated. (like the silly councillors that i spoke to numerous times).

And like the animal rights and some breeders - worse the ones who think they are already educated enough.

some breeders, like me for instance. i took it to mean this. a little dig at me. correct me if i am wrong, if i am right.........

steve i don't claim to know all there is to know and be totally educated on absolutely everything when i learn something new i don't hide it as i did on this thread with the electric fences and admit i didn't have any idea, but the ignorant ppl that sit on council are not dog people never intend to be dog people and have no idea about dog issues and have told a few people they don't want to know either!

dealing with the patella luxation issue, writing my articles doing research with other breeders and logging their info i learnt earlier on in the piece that we all have different views on things we are all not of the same mind, we are all at different levels and have different experiences.

some breeders think that they have learnt there is all to learn are used to doing things a certain way for the last 40 years and don't want a yeehah coming in telling them whats what which i completely understood. its about sharing info and using that shared info to make changes for the better. none of which wellington shire and any council for that matter want to do. because the people in power in charge of dog matters aern't qualified to make the hard decisions.

the new ranger down there doubles up as a traffic officer. as was the guy before him which we knew well being my mum's boss. (lollipop lady).

so how do you get those types to listen and to do their job properly when they don't want to? then you show them the evidence in black and white and they deny it is so even though the evidence is there to hit them in the face. even though you have seen the abuse with your own eyes for years.

Edited September 24, 2010 by toy dog

[Rayvale]

ok, this could be any one of them 14 farms that are in wellington shire's area: (one farm that i know off i am ashamed to say, the partner is an ex-wife of my cousin so i know this person well since childhood when she first began breeding dogs for money)............i was absolutely shocked when i heard her name mentioned!! ;) one year she rang up wanting to buy a chi from us undesexed so my mother told her we only sell dogs desexed she is afraid. the response was quite angry lol so then she tried getting someone to pose as a buyer just wanting an undesexed pet but mum didn't fall for it, she knew this lady was sent from her.

the code states they must not have more than 2 litters in an 18 mth period, there is paperwork to prove this has been violated and bitches are bred every season with absolutely no rest.

The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not at at this farm.

dogs must be fed out of a bowl - they are not, there is footage obtained of staff just throwing dry food over the fences which means the ones that cannot get to the food in time just simply miss out and are not then fed.

Dogs in the nursery are left to whelp overnight unsupervised - 100's of puppies are born weekly, some dogs have died during birth as the puppies get stuck in the birth canal and no one is there to help them. Dogs commonly die here due to milk fever-that must be treated within the hour or they will die

The puppies born here have a range of health issues of and vet reports have been obtained and kept to prove this is so from the vet clinic they use, they come in covered with fleas and ear mites - signs of an unclean environment, vet reports have been supplied. .

The code of practice does not state how many litters a dog can have - therefore the dogs can be bred to death the code does not state staff to dog ratio - there is only 5 staff rostered at anyone time for 700 + animals.

dogs are put down/killed after they are finished with, but they sell 1-2 maybe dogs a year to make the claim they rehome.

These are young dogs the older dogs they can't sell because they are so traumatised and damaged by their experiences as breeding machines they kill and they don't want anyone to see them and damage their reputation.

matings are unsupervised as are whelpings, as a result there are many dog fights and dogs are hurt quite bad, the dogs rescued are apparently the worst by far seen ever. a number of dogs rescued were almost catatonic and had to be force fed, they had mammary cancer, as was seen on tv footage, hernia's, ear mites, flea's, skin allergies, gum disease, rotten teeth

clean doesnt equal good, glossy websites dont equal good breeding practices-its simply consumer fraud

ETA: about the electric fences, The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not,

hence why they have started to put in electric fencing wires on the inside of the dogs pens to stop them from digging out and climbing out. sort of like they are dealing with wild dogs or something....

i hope this answers your questions about how they have violated the code of practice for many years? why can't we all lobby the government to just shut down farms full stop like what many are now calling for on ted ballieu's face book page. good idea along with banning sales at petshops, that'd stop the buck totally.

off to bed now as i can't get those awful images out of my head........

Excellent post Souff - (I remember the banged up old saucepan feed bowl doubling as a toy!)

[toy dog]

ok, this could be any one of them 14 farms that are in wellington shire's area: (one farm that i know off i am ashamed to say, the partner is an ex-wife of my cousin so i know this person well since childhood when she first began breeding dogs for money)............i was absolutely shocked when i heard her name mentioned!! ;) one year she rang up wanting to buy a chi from us undesexed so my mother told her we only sell dogs desexed she is afraid. the response was quite angry lol so then she tried getting someone to pose as a buyer just wanting an undesexed pet but mum didn't fall for it, she knew this lady was sent from her.

the code states they must not have more than 2 litters in an 18 mth period, there is paperwork to prove this has been violated and bitches are bred every season with absolutely no rest.

The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not at at this farm.

dogs must be fed out of a bowl - they are not, there is footage obtained of staff just throwing dry food over the fences which means the ones that cannot get to the food in time just simply miss out and are not then fed.

Dogs in the nursery are left to whelp overnight unsupervised - 100's of puppies are born weekly, some dogs have died during birth as the puppies get stuck in the birth canal and no one is there to help them. Dogs commonly die here due to milk fever-that must be treated within the hour or they will die

The puppies born here have a range of health issues of and vet reports have been obtained and kept to prove this is so from the vet clinic they use, they come in covered with fleas and ear mites - signs of an unclean environment, vet reports have been supplied. .

The code of practice does not state how many litters a dog can have - therefore the dogs can be bred to death the code does not state staff to dog ratio - there is only 5 staff rostered at anyone time for 700 + animals.

dogs are put down/killed after they are finished with, but they sell 1-2 maybe dogs a year to make the claim they rehome.

These are young dogs the older dogs they can't sell because they are so traumatised and damaged by their experiences as breeding machines they kill and they don't want anyone to see them and damage their reputation.

matings are unsupervised as are whelpings, as a result there are many dog fights and dogs are hurt quite bad, the dogs rescued are apparently the worst by far seen ever. a number of dogs rescued were almost catatonic and had to be force fed, they had mammary cancer, as was seen on tv footage, hernia's, ear mites, flea's, skin allergies, gum disease, rotten teeth

clean doesnt equal good, glossy websites dont equal good breeding practices-its simply consumer fraud

ETA: about the electric fences, The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not,

hence why they have started to put in electric fencing wires on the inside of the dogs pens to stop them from digging out and climbing out. sort of like they are dealing with wild dogs or something....

i hope this answers your questions about how they have violated the code of practice for many years? why can't we all lobby the government to just shut down farms full stop like what many are now calling for on ted ballieu's face book page. good idea along with banning sales at petshops, that'd stop the buck totally.

off to bed now as i can't get those awful images out of my head........

Excellent post Souff - (I remember the banged up old saucepan feed bowl doubling as a toy!)

um.........um........souff didn't write that it was me, are you saying i sound like Souff???????? or did you hit the wrong button and quote the wrong post?

[Rayvale]

ok, this could be any one of them 14 farms that are in wellington shire's area: (one farm that i know off i am ashamed to say, the partner is an ex-wife of my cousin so i know this person well since childhood when she first began breeding dogs for money)............i was absolutely shocked when i heard her name mentioned!! ;) one year she rang up wanting to buy a chi from us undesexed so my mother told her we only sell dogs desexed she is afraid. the response was quite angry lol so then she tried getting someone to pose as a buyer just wanting an undesexed pet but mum didn't fall for it, she knew this lady was sent from her.

the code states they must not have more than 2 litters in an 18 mth period, there is paperwork to prove this has been violated and bitches are bred every season with absolutely no rest.

The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not at at this farm.

dogs must be fed out of a bowl - they are not, there is footage obtained of staff just throwing dry food over the fences which means the ones that cannot get to the food in time just simply miss out and are not then fed.

Dogs in the nursery are left to whelp overnight unsupervised - 100's of puppies are born weekly, some dogs have died during birth as the puppies get stuck in the birth canal and no one is there to help them. Dogs commonly die here due to milk fever-that must be treated within the hour or they will die

The puppies born here have a range of health issues of and vet reports have been obtained and kept to prove this is so from the vet clinic they use, they come in covered with fleas and ear mites - signs of an unclean environment, vet reports have been supplied. .

The code of practice does not state how many litters a dog can have - therefore the dogs can be bred to death the code does not state staff to dog ratio - there is only 5 staff rostered at anyone time for 700 + animals.

dogs are put down/killed after they are finished with, but they sell 1-2 maybe dogs a year to make the claim they rehome.

These are young dogs the older dogs they can't sell because they are so traumatised and damaged by their experiences as breeding machines they kill and they don't want anyone to see them and damage their reputation.

matings are unsupervised as are whelpings, as a result there are many dog fights and dogs are hurt quite bad, the dogs rescued are apparently the worst by far seen ever. a number of dogs rescued were almost catatonic and had to be force fed, they had mammary cancer, as was seen on tv footage, hernia's, ear mites, flea's, skin allergies, gum disease, rotten teeth

clean doesnt equal good, glossy websites dont equal good breeding practices-its simply consumer fraud

ETA: about the electric fences, The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not,

hence why they have started to put in electric fencing wires on the inside of the dogs pens to stop them from digging out and climbing out. sort of like they are dealing with wild dogs or something....

i hope this answers your questions about how they have violated the code of practice for many years? why can't we all lobby the government to just shut down farms full stop like what many are now calling for on ted ballieu's face book page. good idea along with banning sales at petshops, that'd stop the buck totally.

off to bed now as i can't get those awful images out of my head........

Excellent post Souff - (I remember the banged up old saucepan feed bowl doubling as a toy!)

um.........um........souff didn't write that it was me, are you saying i sound like Souff???????? or did you hit the wrong button and quote the wrong post?

OOOPpppss - sorry Toy Dog, very new to posting (my apologies)! But it is an excellent post!

[toy dog]

ok, this could be any one of them 14 farms that are in wellington shire's area: (one farm that i know off i am ashamed to say, the partner is an ex-wife of my cousin so i know this person well since childhood when she first began breeding dogs for money)............i was absolutely shocked when i heard her name mentioned!! ;) one year she rang up wanting to buy a chi from us undesexed so my mother told her we only sell dogs desexed she is afraid. the response was quite angry lol so then she tried getting someone to pose as a buyer just wanting an undesexed pet but mum didn't fall for it, she knew this lady was sent from her.

the code states they must not have more than 2 litters in an 18 mth period, there is paperwork to prove this has been violated and bitches are bred every season with absolutely no rest.

The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not at at this farm.

dogs must be fed out of a bowl - they are not, there is footage obtained of staff just throwing dry food over the fences which means the ones that cannot get to the food in time just simply miss out and are not then fed.

Dogs in the nursery are left to whelp overnight unsupervised - 100's of puppies are born weekly, some dogs have died during birth as the puppies get stuck in the birth canal and no one is there to help them. Dogs commonly die here due to milk fever-that must be treated within the hour or they will die

The puppies born here have a range of health issues of and vet reports have been obtained and kept to prove this is so from the vet clinic they use, they come in covered with fleas and ear mites - signs of an unclean environment, vet reports have been supplied. .

The code of practice does not state how many litters a dog can have - therefore the dogs can be bred to death the code does not state staff to dog ratio - there is only 5 staff rostered at anyone time for 700 + animals.

dogs are put down/killed after they are finished with, but they sell 1-2 maybe dogs a year to make the claim they rehome.

These are young dogs the older dogs they can't sell because they are so traumatised and damaged by their experiences as breeding machines they kill and they don't want anyone to see them and damage their reputation.

matings are unsupervised as are whelpings, as a result there are many dog fights and dogs are hurt quite bad, the dogs rescued are apparently the worst by far seen ever. a number of dogs rescued were almost catatonic and had to be force fed, they had mammary cancer, as was seen on tv footage, hernia's, ear mites, flea's, skin allergies, gum disease, rotten teeth

clean doesnt equal good, glossy websites dont equal good breeding practices-its simply consumer fraud

ETA: about the electric fences, The dogs must be provided with an environmental stimulation program - they are not,

hence why they have started to put in electric fencing wires on the inside of the dogs pens to stop them from digging out and climbing out. sort of like they are dealing with wild dogs or something....

i hope this answers your questions about how they have violated the code of practice for many years? why can't we all lobby the government to just shut down farms full stop like what many are now calling for on ted ballieu's face book page. good idea along with banning sales at petshops, that'd stop the buck totally.

off to bed now as i can't get those awful images out of my head........

Excellent post Souff - (I remember the banged up old saucepan feed bowl doubling as a toy!)

um.........um........souff didn't write that it was me, are you saying i sound like Souff???????? or did you hit the wrong button and quote the wrong post?

OOOPpppss - sorry Toy Dog, very new to posting (my apologies)! But it is an excellent post!

no worries. my big dog has an old saucepan as a bowl, an antique saucepan thats about 30 years old thats lost the handle. :D

[Steve]

odd ???? u sounded perfectly sane, non threathening to moi???? did i miss something

you really shouldnt be inviting anyone to start shooting. plenty do it anyway without provocation. so dont worry bullets fly anywhere doggie people meet, greet, and remarkably frequently,,,,,,snarl and start snapping

oh ok i'll come back, ;) and i know i really shouldn't be taking things so personally particularly when im in a debate.

half the time you are dealing with people that don't want to be educated, can't be bothered being educated. (like the silly councillors that i spoke to numerous times).

And like the animal rights and some breeders - worse the ones who think they are already educated enough.

some breeders, like me for instance. i took it to mean this. a little dig at me. correct me if i am wrong, if i am right.........

steve i don't claim to know all there is to know and be totally educated on absolutely everything when i learn something new i don't hide it as i did on this thread with the electric fences and admit i didn't have any idea, but the ignorant ppl that sit on council are not dog people never intend to be dog people and have no idea about dog issues and have told a few people they don't want to know either!

dealing with the patella luxation issue, writing my articles doing research with other breeders and logging their info i learnt earlier on in the piece that we all have different views on things we are all not of the same mind, we are all at different levels and have different experiences.

some breeders think that they have learnt there is all to learn are used to doing things a certain way for the last 40 years and don't want a yeehah coming in telling them whats what which i completely understood. its about sharing info and using that shared info to make changes for the better. none of which wellington shire and any council for that matter want to do. because the people in power in charge of dog matters aern't qualified to make the hard decisions.

the new ranger down there doubles up as a traffic officer. as was the guy before him which we knew well being my mum's boss. (lollipop lady).

so how do you get those types to listen and to do their job properly when they don't want to? then you show them the evidence in black and white and they deny it is so even though the evidence is there to hit them in the face. even though you have seen the abuse with your own eyes for years.

I was speaking generally in particular I was thinking of the breeders who think that when a dog is mated by a different breed they cant have puppies any more because they are ruined etc.

[Lhok]

Well

It's been almost a week now and no reply from the people of Oscar's Law when I asked them about the laws they want to bring in and their relation to ethical registered breeders so I have given up looking for their reply. Only bothered to ask them due to someone stating that if we wanted answers they would be forthcoming so even though I knew it was all lip service I thought I would give them a fair go.

It sometimes annoys me that I am so cynical that even though I know what will happen but I choose do go out of my way to find out if I was correct. Also on another note I recently spoke to my local member for State parliament and he is interested enough to talk to me about getting breeders and pet shops put on Microchips as a non changeable point of contact for information in case of dog being lost or ends up in a shelter.

I would like any help in gathering as much information for and against for this system before I have another meeting with him.

--Lhok

[megan_]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

[Lhok]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

[Gayle.]

Is there another rally being planned?

[oakway]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

Do you really think they will answer you ?.

I would be amazed if they did.

The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop.

[asal]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

I just love how this is repeated over and over like u think your holding a cross up to a vampire?

what on earth makes u think your not about to be tarred with the same brush as those in your own ranks you have decided are "unethical"?????? and are happy to stand by and see wiped from your "ethical" ranks?

u all are members of the cc's,??? you all have registered dogs???

better get bigger brighter crosses mayhap?

as i tried to explain earlier, your all the same critters. the lions doesnt care which antelope its herdmates think is ethical, or the antelope that thinks it is the epitime of ethical and so can cast the first stone on it decides are lower than life in the ranks, that antelop firmly believes it shouldnt be dinner

but to the lion, its just the same as the rest of the potential dinners

Edited September 24, 2010 by asal

[toy dog]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

Do you really think they will answer you ?.

I would be amazed if they did.

The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop.

well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to?

[Lhok]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

Do you really think they will answer you ?.

I would be amazed if they did.

The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop.

well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to?

I sent an email on their contact form.

--Lhok

Also to add, I am done with this debate. I tried to see things from both points of view, to debate logically.

Damned if you do Damned if you don't

--Lhok

Edited September 24, 2010 by Lhok

[toy dog]

THE SOLUTION – Oscar’s Law

•Abolish the mass production of dogs. Make factory farming of dogs illegal

•Ban the sale of animals from pet shops, online and in print media

•Encourage people to adopt animals from shelters, pounds and rescue organisations

•Work on increasing the re-homing rate in pounds and shelters and introduce the no-kill philosophy which has proven to work in USA. http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

•Commence running a REAL campaign about true and responsible companion animal care. Ever see a pound advertise their animals ? Ever see a pound open for longer than an hour a day ? Pounds need to start competing with pet shops and then they can stop killing healthy animals.

where do they mention reg breeders? yes they should include reg breeders in the 3rd point, encourage people to adopt animals from shelters pounds and rescue organisation or buy from a reputable ethical reg breeder perhaps but if no one tells them i think they don't include reg breeder in the equation perhaps.

its not about reg breeders and out to get them, its about abolishing puppy farms, their main focus is on them. the RSPCA is the ones you should be questioning they are the ones that want to bring in laws that in my opinion are all about bunging reg breeders in with farms, backyarders all together.

as i said before they are aware of us and what we are about.

Edited September 24, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

Do you really think they will answer you ?.

I would be amazed if they did.

The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop.

well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to?

I sent an email on their contact form.

--Lhok

Also to add, I am done with this debate. I tried to see things from both points of view, to debate logically.

Damned if you do Damned if you don't

--Lhok

LHOK, i will msg you private with a contact.

[toy dog]

sometimes VOLUNTEERS have jobs, lives etc and they take time to answer questions.

If you sent your email from a gmail/yahoo address, a lot of filters will place your email in spam.

Patience is a virtue.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them.

Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world

--Lhok

Do you really think they will answer you ?.

I would be amazed if they did.

The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop.

well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to?

I sent an email on their contact form.

--Lhok

Also to add, I am done with this debate. I tried to see things from both points of view, to debate logically.

Damned if you do Damned if you don't

--Lhok

i've gone crossed eyed!!! i think really there is no easy answer to all of this and it just gets more and more complicated. I wish there was an easy answer i wish politicians knew what they were doing and councillors were on the good side but its all about selfishiness in this world and money and patting each other on the back. thats more important nowadays.

[oakway]

Deleted because what I did didn't work.

Edited September 24, 2010 by oakway

[toy dog]

think you will find that RSPCA are more against us, i think we should be more worried about them. RSPCA are the ones that have more power with the government to put all this through and bung us in all in the same group.

JMHO

[toy dog]

Deleted because what I did didn't work.

yes your answer was in the quote. still saw it though.