Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[toy dog]

Or to go down to the neighbour's horse paddock and mess around for a few hours while the dogs went rabbiting. They never strayed away - one whistle and they would bolt back to us.

im a city slicker suffering from memory loss! yes, we had dogs who would go and flush out the rabbits after sticking the rifle over the fence, nice tea at night, only visited a supermarket every fortnight just eat of the land. don't think you could do that now, i think wild rabbits suffer from (well they did later on) mixamotosis etc.

the dogs would go down the burrow, then after they were finished come back home.

The rabbits around here dont have mixo or calisi - wish they did. On dusk you see thousands of them pop their heads up in the front paddock.

that must be a weird sight. lol i notice they have a rabbit problem at KCC park (state dog park) often you'll drive beyond the gates and you see a rabbit running away, in the exercising yards there is either sheep poo or lots of rabbit poo.

[shortstep]

Souff this council WIL NOT reg pups that are not micro chipped and if not reg with vicdog[x breed] MUST be also desexed.

Does this include maditory desexing all working dogs, like all the working kelpies, border collies and koolies that are not registered in the ANKC?

Sorry but which council is this?

[asal]

The old saying''You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink''

''But you can try to offer him a drink''Ring home true to me.

yep i will never stop offering that drink.

silly, u just jump em and hold em under the water till u think they swallowed enough, isnt that whats peta doing to the sheep industry, cease museling by 2010 or you cant sell the wool?

doent seem to be a problem with em that unless the sheep are born bare breeched a full breeched unmulsed sheep faces being eaten alive by maggots?

they didnt get the nickname maggot taxies, by accident

but hey

its for the GREATER GOOD.

n sure one fast way to eliminate full breeched sheep from the gene pool. suffering???? what u say???? they are "sufering" for the GREATER GOOD. SO THEY CAN DIE CONTENT cant they?

Edited September 24, 2010 by asal

[Steve]

though the fact that they actually wrote that in as something you have no choice on is beyond me.

eh sorry not following?

When dogs are not bred, have infertile matings, (Kim and Kim 2005), cystic endometrial hyperplasia may develop. The cystic hyperplasia-pyometra complex in the bitch. Vet Rec 69: 1409-1414.

During estrus ("heat"), white blood cells are removed from the uterus to allow safe passage of the sperm. Following estrus ("heat") in the dog, progesterone levels remain elevated for eight to ten weeks and thicken the lining of the uterus in preparation for pregnancy.This lapse in protection often leads to infection. If pregnancy does not occur during estrus cycles, the lining continues to increase in thickness until cysts form within it. The thickened, cystic lining secretes fluids that create an ideal environment in which bacteria can grow. Additionally, high progesterone levels inhibit the ability of the muscles in the wall of the uterus to contract.

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rfoster/repropath/surgicalpath/female/dog/female_dog_uterus.htm

It is not surprising that the uterus can attempt to form a placental site even though there is not conceptus. It is assumed that focal hyperplastic lesions that resemble placental sites are of this type. They may occur in pseudopregnancy. Pseudopregnancy is a physiological event that may be exagerated and clinically visible. Excellent reviews are available (Gobello et al 2001a, b). The pathology of the uterus in pseudopregnancy is documented by Whitney (1967). Clinically pseudopregnant dogs had diffuse thickening of the uterus and additionally, macroscopically visible swellings that corresponded to 2cm diameter regions of pronounced endometrial hyperplasia. The lumen of the affected uteri had a clear or cloudy blood stained fluid (see mucometra). Microscopically, the placenta like zones had long branching villous structures and the epithelial cells of the the lumen and the glands were large and foamy. The endometrial glands are dilated and contain secretion. Whitney (1967) reported that 3 of 6 dogs had inflammatory cells including neutrophils in these placental sites. The uterus is prone to maintain infection during the dioestral phase of the cycle. It is during dioestrus that the dominant hormone is progesterone, and that progesterone inhibits immunity in the uterus.

Hadley and Osbourne (1974) reviewed the pathophysiology of pyometra. They recognised hormonal and bacterial factors. Pyometra occurs in dioestrus when the uterus is influenced by progesterone. Progesterone causes endometrial proliferation and secretion, and provides an environment for bacterial proliferation. They considered that bacteria were secondary invaders that were not necessary for the development of pyometra and therefore complicate the disease, rather than initiated it!

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2686

Introduction

This paper will focus on the most recent advances in the pathogenesis and treatment of canine pyometra which are relevant from the practical point of view.

Pathogenesis

Canine pyometra is a diestrual disease typical of adult intact bitches whose development is strongly influenced by sequential progestational stimulations (normal diestrus or treatment with progestins) of the uterus. Bitches whelping rarely or never in their lives have a greater chance of developing pyometra with rare or no occurrence of pregnancy. For unknown reasons gestation has a protective action on the canine endometrium, causing pyometra not to develop in areas of the endometrium where placental attachment has occurred (although pyometra can occur in one horn with pregnancy in the opposite horn). During a progestational stimulation the canine endometrium proliferates and starts secreting the so called "uterine milk" while the cervix remains closed and myometrial contractility is inhibited (Table n° 1) . Fluid accumulates into the endometrial glands which then dilate becoming fairly large (up to 0.3-2.0 cm diameter). The endometrial pattern that develops is referred to as cystic endometrial hyperplasia (CEH) which is a prerequisite for the development of pyometra due to the fact that the uterine milk in itself constitutes an inflammatory stimulus as well as an excellent culture media for bacteria which. CEH is a physiological phenomenon whose regression starts during the second half of diestrus. However, with time and number of "open" (non-pregnant) cycles CEH may not entirely disappear from some sections of the endometrium, thus increasing chances of causing endometrial inflammation.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Steve

[asal]

gee steve your game, trying to educate the masses? dont think they are going to like being reminded fur babies arent human

[Steve]

Schultz, professor and chair of pathobiological sciences at School of Veterinary Medicine, has been studying the effectiveness of canine vaccines since the 1970s; he's learned that immunity can last as long as a dog's lifetime, which suggests that our "best friends" are being over-vaccinated.

Based on his findings, a community of canine vaccine experts has developed new veterinary recommendations that could eliminate a dog's need for annual shots. The guidelines appear in the March/April issue of Trends, the journal of the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA).

Every year, when we take our dogs to the veterinarian's office, they could receive up to 16 different vaccines, many of which are combined into a single shot. Four of these products protect against life-threatening diseases, including rabies, canine parvovirus type 2 (CPV-2), canine distemper virus (CDV) and canine adenovirus type 2 (CAV-2); the rest protect against milder diseases to which only some dogs are exposed, including Lyme disease.

But, as many veterinarians are realizing, over-vaccination can actually jeopardize a dog's health and even life. Side effects can cause skin problems, allergic reactions and autoimmune disease. Though the case in cats, not dogs, tumors have been reported at the site of vaccine injections.

"These adverse reactions have caused many veterinarians to rethink the issue of vaccination," says Schultz. "The idea that unnecessary vaccines can cause serious side effects is in direct conflict with sound medical practices."

For 30 years, Schultz has been examining the need to vaccinate animals so often and for so many diseases. "In the 1970s, I started thinking about our immune response to pathogens and how similar it is in other animals," says Schultz. "That's when I started to question veterinary vaccination practices."

Just like ours, a canine's immune system fires up when a pathogen, like a virus, enters the body. The pathogen releases a protein called an antigen, which calls into action the immune system's special disease-fighting cells. Called B and T lymphocytes, these cells not only destroy the virus, but they remember what it looked like so they can fend it off in the future.

It's this immunological memory that enables vaccines, which purposely contain live, weakened or dead pathogens, to protect against future disease.

But, as Schultz points out, vaccines can keep people immune for a lifetime: we're usually inoculated for measles, mumps and rubella as children but never as adults. So, can dogs be vaccinated as pups and then never again?

Evidence from Schultz's studies on both his own dogs and many other dogs from controlled studies suggests the answer is yes.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/8413

[Steve]

gee steve your game, trying to educate the masses? dont think they are going to like being reminded fur babies arent human

Shouldnt have to educate the masses only the breeders. But whats the point no one can use the science anyway. CCs and governments say so. Too bad those who dont breed and who never will know more about breeding dogs than those who do.

[Steve]

What about starting a class action for dog owners who are given no choice by shire councils but to desex their dogs when the dogs have less longevity and more health problems which can be scientifically proven to be as a result of desexing ?

[asal]

yes its a bit late, even the directors of the canine coucnils have rolled over and gone with the flow, n last i looked every single one of em were registered breeders and u would have thought they just might have done their homework, n even if they hadnt, their own vets would have told the the awful truth?

most of those ive sat with at shows, treat their flossies like any good fur parent would,.

my favourite memory is the tear streaked owner of her recently desexed chamion bitch, explaining why she had to be "done".

the neighbours x bred got to her...... shes ruined.....can never be used for purebreeding now shes been contaminated.

im sitting there wondering? "are u mad"

asked, "why do u think that"

to be told "how will i know which puppies she had in future that didnt throw back to the x bred? they always throw back u know"

since the dog in question had not even had one litter before this disaster this was a disaster in a few counts, line lost for starters

soooooo

i carefuly chose my words, really i did.

sooo i askes, "if your husband died and you remarried, do you really think any child you had was actually a child by your first husband?"

she did the biscuit. stormed off and banned me from EVER, EVER, her gracing her doorstep.

this is the mentality of some of our ho so ethical breeders. ???????????

Just what percentage i dont really want to know

genetic's? only puppy farmers would talk that rubbish!

best of luck, i didnt achive much besides indignant fury

Edited September 24, 2010 by asal

[Steve]

PETA and animal liberation and other animal rioghts groups have been calling the shots for years until its now come to a point where we cant even discuss what really is best for our dogs and less experienced breeders have been sucked in by the crap and older breeders dont dare tell what they think in case they are bullied and chased off.

Given the chance dogs eat poo and thats not served up in bowls either.

[asal]

ummm come to think of it? at least missed out on getting my face slapped i suppose

[asal]

PETA and animal liberation and other animal rioghts groups have been calling the shots for years until its now come to a point where we cant even discuss what really is best for our dogs and less experienced breeders have been sucked in by the crap and older breeders dont dare tell what they think in case they are bullied and chased off.

Given the chance dogs eat poo and thats not served up in bowls either.

SURELY NOT.........................

UUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

Edited September 24, 2010 by asal

[Steve]

yes its a bit late, even the directors of the canine coucnils have rolled over and gone with the flow, n last i looked every single one of em were registered breeders and u would have thought they just might have done their homework, n even if they hadnt, their own vets would have told the the awful truth?

most of those ive sat with at shows, treat their flossies like any good fur parent would,.

my favourite memory is the tear streaked owner of her recently desexed chamion bitch, explaining why she had to be "done".

the neighbours x bred got to her...... shes ruined.....can never be used for purebreeding now shes been contaminated.

im sitting there wondering? "are u mad"

asked, "why do u think that"

to be told "how will i know which puppies she had in future that didnt throw back to the x bred? they always throw back u know"

since the dog in question had not even had one litter before this disaster this was a disaster in a few counts, line lost for starters

soooooo

i carefuly chose my words, really i did.

sooo i askes, "if your husband died and you remarried, do you really think any child you had was actually a child by your first husband?"

she did the biscuit. stormed off and banned me from EVER, EVER, her gracing her doorstep.

this is the mentality of some of our ho so ethical breeders. ???????????

Just what percentage i dont really want to know

genetic's? only puppy farmers would talk that rubbish!

best of luck, i didnt achive much besides indignant fury

I have had a similar conversation in the last 6 months Im still shaking my head over it. She's ruined for life if an accident happens. How on earth do they get through life let alone being seen to be experts because they go to a show! Scarier is that she is being seen to be a good mentor!

[asal]

YEA

the genes that count are the ones with CH in front of the names, u know

thats a guarantee its perfect, u know

nnnnnn any puppy that has blue papers is guaranteed to become a CH toooooooooooo

save us

nope

[asal]

really need to go do contructive stuff

like housework

this is looking pretty much like the desexed champ dont it, done n dusted

[Souff]

my brother and i moved to the city to find work as in the country there was none and i know of many kids of my generation that had to do this, there is no one left hardly now.

back then i'd always wanted a "farm dog" but wasn't allowed to have one of my very own so i got a chihuahua instead that happened to be registered thank dog. didn't know anything about pedigrees.

today, i eventually got my "farm dog" a dog that was tied up to a pole in the middle of the yard with a maltese because they were going to be used for a "new breed".....anyone would think my ol' "farm doggy" was tied up because he jumped fences. nope. just neglected, not fed no water, maltese was in a small cage near him. a rescue dog, Jake is my dream dog that i always wanted as a kid.

so yeah, when you live in the city when you come from the country originally you tend to forget you tend to go "soft" you slowly become without realising a "city slicker"....

There are still plenty left out there Toy Dog, and a lot have also moved to the rural areas. City refugees, the locals call them. I dont think we forget at all, we just dont remember it often enough.

My point in all of this is that we cannot make laws - laws that will work properly that is - based on our own narrow views of what will work best for dogs, views that are often based on what we see as good for our type of dogs. What will be excellent for a Yorkshire Terrier could be entirely wrong for a big St Bernard, or an Australian Kelpie, or a Scottish Terrier, or a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, or one of the many many diverse types of dogs that are in the dog world.

Kennels with wooden floors do some dogs no harm - because they dont pee or crap in them - in fact some of those dogs will only go IN the kennel if there is a storm around. They prefer to lie outside the kennel in the dirt and sleep under the stars!!! And if they have a natural layer of insulation under the skin, or a natural double coat, then this is perfectly OK. We should not be demanding that such dogs sleep on concrete, or on beds that they will probably destroy. Dirt 'floors' are warmer than concrete floors, and these dogs know this.

Other dogs, particularly small breeds who dont like to go outside when it is cold or wet, will have wooden or dirt floors stinking in no time! These are the dogs that need to be in areas that are easily cleaned, and concrete surfaces or tiled surfaces that have good sealed grout, are the way to go for these dogs.

But we cannot make legislation to suit every dogs nuances as to what type of floor that they prefer to sleep on.

By the same token I am distinctly uncomfortable about any legislation that says ALL dogs in kennels must be on CONCRETE floors.

Blanket legislation never works well for those it is supposed to be helping. One size definitely does not fit all.

Dogs are a very diverse bunch. So are humans.

I think Victorians need to take a step back and take a good long look at the animal legislation that is already in place and make it work, before they go anywhere near making more legislation.

Souff

[Steve]

We'd better shut up asal - its not politically correct to tell the truth. The whole entire dog world is held to ransom by animal rights propoganda

and rather than stand up to them and tell them they didnt know what they are on about we got frightened and made out like they knew better than us all along.

God help us even our vets are being educated by them.

[oakway]

One of the greatest problems we have to overcome is, that it is not illegal to breed and sell dogs.

It is in the manner in the way some of these dogs are kept is our problem.

Let us say if I build a huge STATE OF THE ART breeding kennels and put in it Registered PURE BREEDS of dogs that I wanted to breed, would you object ?

If the appropriate health tests were carried out and only those that pass the health tests were used for breeding would you object.

Would you object if I had a vet in residence. If not in residence on 24/7 stand by.

Would you object if these kennels were open to the public's scrutiny 7 days a week.

Would you object if I followed my States Controlling Bodies code of Ethics.

Would you have any objection if after X amount of litters I de sexed a bitch and placed it out for adoption.

I am fairly sure the sane and reasonable persons would answer no.

So we have established that if done correctly the majority have NO objection to the breeding of dogs.

Now lets reverse the situation, would you object, of course you would and I would be at the head of the list.

So we have now established what we object about, the way in which some of these dogs are kept not to breeding of them.

Think.......think..........think.........................

Hey!, don't we have organisations that deal with cruelty cases,

Wait a minute, don't we have councils and shires that have rules and regulations that deal with any matters that arise from bad situations.

Well go get them to get off their BUMS and get them to do something about it. Surely it is one of the reasons they get a salary.

[toy dog]

What about starting a class action for dog owners who are given no choice by shire councils but to desex their dogs when the dogs have less longevity and more health problems which can be scientifically proven to be as a result of desexing ?

so.....let pet owners make a choice whether they desex or not? if you are vicdog you are exempt you just have to provide your membership card.

gee if that was the case there'd be a few rubbing their hands together in glee breeding their pet? on the other hand, they've had those laws in place for many years and still we see backyard breeders and people breeding their pets for money left right and centre as was reported on another thread..

[toy dog]

yes its a bit late, even the directors of the canine coucnils have rolled over and gone with the flow, n last i looked every single one of em were registered breeders and u would have thought they just might have done their homework, n even if they hadnt, their own vets would have told the the awful truth?

most of those ive sat with at shows, treat their flossies like any good fur parent would,.

my favourite memory is the tear streaked owner of her recently desexed chamion bitch, explaining why she had to be "done".

the neighbours x bred got to her...... shes ruined.....can never be used for purebreeding now shes been contaminated.

im sitting there wondering? "are u mad"

asked, "why do u think that"

to be told "how will i know which puppies she had in future that didnt throw back to the x bred? they always throw back u know"

since the dog in question had not even had one litter before this disaster this was a disaster in a few counts, line lost for starters

soooooo

i carefuly chose my words, really i did.

sooo i askes, "if your husband died and you remarried, do you really think any child you had was actually a child by your first husband?"

she did the biscuit. stormed off and banned me from EVER, EVER, her gracing her doorstep.

this is the mentality of some of our ho so ethical breeders. ???????????

Just what percentage i dont really want to know

genetic's? only puppy farmers would talk that rubbish!

best of luck, i didnt achive much besides indignant fury

thats ignorance in all its bliss....if she had of said that to me i think i couldn't be bothered to explain just walk away not worth the stress of having them back at you. got burned with one lady a few months ago when i told her a few homes truths about her little cross breed politely mind you. she was going to get the police onto me to beat my door down. did not like what she was hearing at all.