Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[toy dog]

and that was the article i found against ANKC breeders, where are they getting their facts from they are going off half cocked.....you can easily trace heritage in a pedigree dog

Yes I noticed that.

They are demanding 'open stud books' so that parentage and ancestry of a dog can be traced back over the generations.

For the greater good.

They want and have that info, so that they can draw a line in the sand when in comes to COI's and place yet another restriction on what we can and can't do as breeders.

ETA: of course that will be for the "greater good"

Ok lets back up.

Open stud books means the stub book is not closed to outside dogs from other non approved registries or dogs with out registration.

To open a stud book means that you allow dogs that are not registered in the stud book or an already acceptable outside stud book to enter into your stud book.

For example, if you open the stud book for kelpies, it could mean that all the WKC dogs and the farm kelpies could then be registered in ANKC (which they currently can not be). It can also mean that you cross the current population of a breed with another breed to increase the genetic diversity, another words controlled cross breeding.

Opening a stud book or having open stud books, has nothing to do with allowing someone to see the pedigrees.

Pedigrees are already public information, can be purchased on disc and the RSPCA opps I mean Syn Uni already have them.

They already did the COI for the ANKC breeds and it was much lower than they had indicated it would be. I think Steve has those numbers.

So the RSPCA calling for the stud books to be opened so you can look back at the pedigree, shows that they have no idea what is meant by opening stud books. Even though they have no idea what it means, and what they think it means is wrong, it is still a welfare issue in purebred dogs.

Heaven help us.

For the greater good.

My apologies, I read your orginal comment incorrectly.

I do understand what an open stud book is and how it operates.

:D

Yes I knew that :D

However there may be many people (including the RSPCA Vic webpage) that do not know what it means.

I was a miss not to start with education on the subject first, so everyone would understand my comments.

BTW for those who may not know. A Closed stub book means that only approved outside registered dogs can entry into the breeding population.

Neither a closed or open stud book in themsleves indicate anything about the heatlh or welfare of the breed in question.

All issues surronding open, partial open or closed stud books need to be addressed for each breed as a seperate issue.

There should never be a sweeping uniform 'correct' policy on closing or opening stud books for all breeds, that would be contra indicated and potentially a very reckless position reguarding health and welfare.

All matters concerning opening or closing a stud book should be discussed on a breed by breed basis.

hey but didn't they have on that doco calling for all breeds to be mixed to get diversity as they put it, so i think they know what it means and they are calling for other breeds to mingle. shows that they don't know dilly squat just like the councils. i did read it somewhere too. they believe that cross breeds are more healthier than the pedigree but there is no evidence to suggest this but still they keep on stating it.

they can go and that aint gona happen from a bunch of people that don't know what they are talking about and reckon they do!

[Souff]

Thanks for the link Steve. That gives me a fair idea of what standard conditions are and how to stay away from being substandard .....

[toy dog]

Standard conditions are laid down in mandatory codes for breeding dogs and in council by laws for each shire.

Have a look at this video - Banksia Park breed puppies in standard conditions.

they advertise in the local paper (our family live down here) and always make out they are the best and are following codes of practice when they haven't been for years as stated again on prisoners for profit website .

so its all a farce......just to make themselves look good in the public eye but all is not good at all.........

Edited October 14, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

i've given up writing emails to council down that way actually as you can't talk to ignorant people that just don't wanna listen, its very frustrating!

banksia park the jokes on you

and yes mortonplace the stress could very well kill me, talking to the councillors and getting their stupid lectures was like talking to brick walls.

Edited September 23, 2010 by toy dog

[mortonplace]

i've given up writing emails to council down that way actually as you can't talk to ignorant people that just don't wanna listen, its very frustrating!

banksia park the jokes on you

and yes mortonplace the stress could very well kill me, talking to the councillors and getting their stupid lectures was like talking to brick walls. :D

Sad isnt it its a joke really

Atleast you have tryed but yes i do belive stress is a killer.. :D Sorry

SOUFf...l dont think the word regulate was a badly choosen word for all sites INCLUDEing petklink...

Regulate as in makeing sure the pups on the site are DESEXED...microchipped and above board..Nothing wrong with trying is there?

And before you say that cant happen take this on board please

adds in local papers were regulated and had checks placed on them to make sure they were licenced to sell pups.

Yeap even in the wellington shire WOW amazeing hey

Edited September 23, 2010 by mortonplace

[toy dog]

i've given up writing emails to council down that way actually as you can't talk to ignorant people that just don't wanna listen, its very frustrating!

banksia park the jokes on you

and yes mortonplace the stress could very well kill me, talking to the councillors and getting their stupid lectures was like talking to brick walls. :D

Sad isnt it its a joke really

Atleast you have tryed but yes i do belive stress is a killer.. :D Sorry

SOUFf...l dont think the word regulate was a badly choosen word for all sites INCLUDEing petklink...

Regulate as in makeing sure the pups on the site are DESEXED...microchipped and above board..Nothing wrong with trying is there?

And before you say that cant happen take this on board please

adds in local papers were regulated and had checks placed on them to make sure they were licenced to sell pups.

Yeap even in the wellington shire WOW amazeing hey

dont' have to be sorry you are 100% right. :D

[Steve]

Standard conditions are laid down in mandatory codes for breeding dogs and in council by laws for each shire.

Have a look at this video - Banksia Park breed puppies in standard conditions.

yes this is what the council keep on saying and ramming it through but its not true any of it. ex-workers have said they do all sorts of things to their dogs after they are finished with them. ex-workers are saying this publicly on prisoners for profit website and its horrific. council keep on saying that banksia is inpsected when it is not and hasn't been for 5 years all the reports are blank. ranger got up and stated that they inspect at the RSPCA puppy farm forum then was questioned and then back tracked and said they haven't enough resources.

one councillor stated to me in a private email didn't know 14 farms existed go and investigate, it was all a crock found out from a source that was at a council meeting that the councillor did indeed know how many farms were down there and was winding me and others up jin private emails just to make fun at us. this councillor asked the question themselves to council in a meeting how many farms and she got an answer. i also had emails back and forth with a past mayor.

they advertise in the local paper (our family live down here) and always make out they are the best and are following codes of practice when they haven't been for years as stated again on prisoners for profit website .

so its all a farce......just to make themselves look good in the public eye but all is not good at all.........

What bits of the code arent they following?

[toy dog]

if you look at the link i gave everyone, you will see pictures taken from visitors on the day and will see the dogs sitting on dirt in tin sheds rows and rows. the dogs are meant to be on concrete, some areas are but they said that very large areas the dogs are only in paddocks like cattle, as stated on the 7.30 report as well. the owner even admits that its not ideal but they get to run free adn the mothers get exercise regularly. i think you can get the segment on youtube i will see if i can find it again. also the code states that bitches must have a rest but apparently these guys are breeding every season without rest as stated from an ex-worker or two or three. and there are other violation as well but i'd have to look to find out what they were.

the reporter says this area is pretty dry and desolate, he answers its not ideal! you can see where the dogs are being kept and what people are up in arms about now is the electric fences that surround the dogs to keep them in or keep people out, can't understand why they have the electric fences but they do this with cattle on farms too. the dogs are nothing but cattle to this family.

this is from an ex-worker from a puppy farm in gippsland there are 14 of them so that raid they did in gippsland with chris brown could have been any of the 14, i've blanked out the name of the farm.......

I worked at **** for a few weeks, it was working in hell. Its now called ****.

The bitches were forced to be mated all the time and to several different dogs, some were kept on chains. No one knew what cross the pups were and they were sold as whatever was wanted. Dogs and puppies were bought and sold in dozens from the other puppy farms.On one awful day 14 dogs were killed by the Boronia vet, they were no longer wanted for breeding, no one cared. Mum dogs gave birth on their own and many died because they couldn’t get the pups out. Mums were in agony all night and if they were alive still in the morning the vet was paid to save the puppies. The vets were busy mending birth defects very cheaply but the new owners were never told that the puppies had been operated on. The mum dogs were just called stupid for not birthing lots of puppies to sell and killed when the litters got small,they were mated every season every year until they wore out, some were really old. I was told more than a hundred were killed every year for being useless as well as the bitches and dogs that died from neglect. I was so sick with the poor dogs suffering I left after more dogs were destroyed. *****Puppy Farm is Hell on Earth, for God’s sake close it down.

Edited September 23, 2010 by toy dog

[Steve]

if you look at the link i gave everyone, you will see pictures taken from visitors on the day and will see the dogs sitting on dirt in tin sheds rows and rows. the dogs are meant to be on concrete, some areas are but they said that very large areas the dogs are only in paddocks like cattle, as stated on the 7.30 report as well. the owner even admits that its not ideal but they get to run free adn the mothers get exercise regularly. i think you can get the segment on youtube i will see if i can find it again. also the code states that bitches must have a rest but apparently these guys are breeding every season without rest as stated from an ex-worker or two or three. and there are other violation as well but i'd have to look to find out what they were.

The mandatory code doesnt say they can't breed every season. The mandatory code doesnt say they cant have them in yards with dirt and grass.

Id rather see dogs running in large pens than living their whole lives on concrete. Do you have only concrete where your dogs run?

If in fact there are laws which say that those dogs have to be on concrete then yours have to be too.

[Steve]

3.7 Housing

Catteries and kennels must be designed,

constructed, serviced and maintained in a

way that ensures the good health and well

being of the animals, whilst preventing

escape or injury to humans. Housing must

provide protection from the weather (wind,

rain, sun and extremes of climate), vermin

and harassment from other animals.

Materials should be selected for ease of

maintenance and cleaning, durability and

non-toxicity. Floors of animal housing areas

of catteries and kennels must be made of an

impervious material to assist cleaning and

drainage. Wood, brick, dirt or grass floors are

not acceptable except in exercise areas.

[toy dog]

3.7 Housing

Catteries and kennels must be designed,

constructed, serviced and maintained in a

way that ensures the good health and well

being of the animals, whilst preventing

escape or injury to humans. Housing must

provide protection from the weather (wind,

rain, sun and extremes of climate), vermin

and harassment from other animals.

Materials should be selected for ease of

maintenance and cleaning, durability and

non-toxicity. Floors of animal housing areas

of catteries and kennels must be made of an

impervious material to assist cleaning and

drainage. Wood, brick, dirt or grass floors are

not acceptable except in exercise areas.

no these dogs are being kept in these areas all the time, some dogs are on concrete some not so.

[Steve]

Are your dogs on concrete except for when they are exercising? How do they win. Animal lib take photos of the dogs they have in concrete floored pens and say thats cruel then you say they shouldnt be in dirt yards - yards which are bigger than lots of people's backyards! How is this cruel?

[toy dog]

if you look at the link i gave everyone, you will see pictures taken from visitors on the day and will see the dogs sitting on dirt in tin sheds rows and rows. the dogs are meant to be on concrete, some areas are but they said that very large areas the dogs are only in paddocks like cattle, as stated on the 7.30 report as well. the owner even admits that its not ideal but they get to run free adn the mothers get exercise regularly. i think you can get the segment on youtube i will see if i can find it again. also the code states that bitches must have a rest but apparently these guys are breeding every season without rest as stated from an ex-worker or two or three. and there are other violation as well but i'd have to look to find out what they were.

The mandatory code doesnt say they can't breed every season. The mandatory code doesnt say they cant have them in yards with dirt and grass.

Id rather see dogs running in large pens than living their whole lives on concrete. Do you have only concrete where your dogs run?

If in fact there are laws which say that those dogs have to be on concrete then yours have to be too.

Bitches must be at least twelve months of age before being mated and a bitch must not have more than two litters in any eighteen month period.

doesn't this mean the same thing? this is not what they are doing apparently they are violating this - breeding every season is what im reading.

the fact that they spend their time in paddocks like cattle on dirt not grass there's no grass to be seen BTW don't believe me see the footage i gave you to view.......with their type of coat as you see in one picture has dirt on his coat and is matted. an oodle coat and dirt don't think mix very well.

their beds must be constructed of other material besides concrete, concrete is easier to clean than just plain dirt, this is why they stipulate must be of material (but does not mention concrete) that can be easily cleaned. one of my first pedigree dogs came from a farmer (i didn't even know the term then) that just had her dogs on dirt and mud in the cold, its not ideal. she got closed down in the end from RSPCA and the council down there.

the dogs were dirty and matted. kept like cattle as well.

[Steve]

if you look at the link i gave everyone, you will see pictures taken from visitors on the day and will see the dogs sitting on dirt in tin sheds rows and rows. the dogs are meant to be on concrete, some areas are but they said that very large areas the dogs are only in paddocks like cattle, as stated on the 7.30 report as well. the owner even admits that its not ideal but they get to run free adn the mothers get exercise regularly. i think you can get the segment on youtube i will see if i can find it again. also the code states that bitches must have a rest but apparently these guys are breeding every season without rest as stated from an ex-worker or two or three. and there are other violation as well but i'd have to look to find out what they were.

The mandatory code doesnt say they can't breed every season. The mandatory code doesnt say they cant have them in yards with dirt and grass.

Id rather see dogs running in large pens than living their whole lives on concrete. Do you have only concrete where your dogs run?

If in fact there are laws which say that those dogs have to be on concrete then yours have to be too.

Bitches must be at least twelve months of age before being mated and a bitch must not have more than two litters in any eighteen month period.

doesn't this mean the same thing? this is not what they are doing apparently they are violating this - breeding every season is what im reading.

the fact that they spend their time in paddocks like cattle on dirt not grass there's no grass to be seen BTW don't believe me see the footage i gave you to view.......with their type of coat as you see in one picture has dirt on his coat and is matted. an oodle coat and dirt don't think mix very well.

their beds must be constructed of other material besides concrete, concrete is easier to clean than just plain dirt, this is why they stipulate must be of material (but does not mention concrete) that can be easily cleaned. one of my first pedigree dogs came from a farmer (i didn't even know the term then) that just had her dogs on dirt and mud in the cold, its not ideal. she got closed down in the end from RSPCA and the council down there.

the dogs were dirty and matted. kept like cattle as well.

You must be looking at a different mandatory code to me - could you please direct me to where you got this from?

When those photos were taken we were right in the middle of the biggest drought we have ever had to live through and peopel across rural australia had back yards that looked like that. In this town there wouldnt have been more than a dozen houses which did have a blade of grass. Dogs all over this country live in back yards they dont all sleep on satin pillows and thats not good surface either - nor is carpet.Talking about one kennel which is supposedly breaching the codes and swapping over to one you bought a puppy from doesnt back up why council should shut these people down.

[toy dog]

Are your dogs on concrete except for when they are exercising? How do they win. Animal lib take photos of the dogs they have in concrete floored pens and say thats cruel then you say they shouldnt be in dirt yards - yards which are bigger than lots of people's backyards! How is this cruel?

its just cruel for these farmers to be breeding dogs like wall to wall cattle surrounded by electric fences full stop whereever they blinkin well keep them :rolleyes: how they win? if we succeed in closing that mob down, thats how they win.

[oakway]

Sorry Toy Dog that could have been my back yard in the drought when I lived in Queensland.

Actually it could be any backyard that has to exist on tank water alone.

Many of us use electric fencing to make sure the dogs stay in. Even pet owners use it to make sure the dog stays confined to the yard where it is supposed to be.

[toy dog]

if you look at the link i gave everyone, you will see pictures taken from visitors on the day and will see the dogs sitting on dirt in tin sheds rows and rows. the dogs are meant to be on concrete, some areas are but they said that very large areas the dogs are only in paddocks like cattle, as stated on the 7.30 report as well. the owner even admits that its not ideal but they get to run free adn the mothers get exercise regularly. i think you can get the segment on youtube i will see if i can find it again. also the code states that bitches must have a rest but apparently these guys are breeding every season without rest as stated from an ex-worker or two or three. and there are other violation as well but i'd have to look to find out what they were.

The mandatory code doesnt say they can't breed every season. The mandatory code doesnt say they cant have them in yards with dirt and grass.

Id rather see dogs running in large pens than living their whole lives on concrete. Do you have only concrete where your dogs run?

If in fact there are laws which say that those dogs have to be on concrete then yours have to be too.

Bitches must be at least twelve months of age before being mated and a bitch must not have more than two litters in any eighteen month period.

doesn't this mean the same thing? this is not what they are doing apparently they are violating this - breeding every season is what im reading.

the fact that they spend their time in paddocks like cattle on dirt not grass there's no grass to be seen BTW don't believe me see the footage i gave you to view.......with their type of coat as you see in one picture has dirt on his coat and is matted. an oodle coat and dirt don't think mix very well.

their beds must be constructed of other material besides concrete, concrete is easier to clean than just plain dirt, this is why they stipulate must be of material (but does not mention concrete) that can be easily cleaned. one of my first pedigree dogs came from a farmer (i didn't even know the term then) that just had her dogs on dirt and mud in the cold, its not ideal. she got closed down in the end from RSPCA and the council down there.

the dogs were dirty and matted. kept like cattle as well.

You must be looking at a different mandatory code to me - could you please direct me to where you got this from?

When those photos were taken we were right in the middle of the biggest drought we have ever had to live through and peopel across rural australia had back yards that looked like that. In this town there wouldnt have been more than a dozen houses which did have a blade of grass. Dogs all over this country live in back yards they dont all sleep on satin pillows and thats not good surface either - nor is carpet.Talking about one kennel which is supposedly breaching the codes and swapping over to one you bought a puppy from doesnt back up why council should shut these people down.

i will have to ask Steve as i am reading the same information as you on that site i directed you to. i will have to get back to you. they did tell me but my memory is a bit vague at the moment, will email and find out.

i got that from the same code you got your quote from - saw that in there too. lol mandatory code for breeding and rearing establishments. vic government. ??????

here under 3.2 vaccination and health care of breeding animals

Edited September 23, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

Sorry Toy Dog that could have been my back yard in the drought when I lived in Queensland.

Actually it could be any backyard that has to exist on tank water alone.

Many of us use electric fencing to make sure the dogs stay in. Even pet owners use it to make sure the dog stays confined to the yard where it is supposed to be.

sorry but :rolleyes: not that im saying anything against it i just had no idea.

[Steve]

O.K. Yes you're right I can see it now - though the fact that they actually wrote that in as something you have no choice on is beyond me.

I dont want to seeem that Im condoning anything they are doing but you seeem to miss somethings. Firstly you cant expect them to shut them down based on what you have presented. If their records show that the dogs are only bred every 18 months then how does anyone know any different? How do you expect council to go on someone else's say so with out evidence?

You also seem to miss that if you have any more than 5 fertile bitches in Victoria you come under the same rules as they do even if you are canine council members.

[mortonplace]

The code of pratice for operation of breeding and rearing establishments

sec 59 of division 4 act 1994 is the act they should be under.

heres the link http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/DPI/nrenfa.nsf/L...earing%20V2.pdf

Edited September 23, 2010 by mortonplace