Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[toy dog]

Would limiting the number of litters allowed to be sold from one "kennel" work? It wouldn't stop BYBers but surely for puppy mills pumping out 50 litters a year a limit may work.

In ethical breeder, even if they have a large kennel wound not want to be breeding more than 5-10 litters a year I would think.

Actually on second thoughts, i;m sure these dodgy type people would find ways around any type of restrictions

No that wont work - because people are just as able to breed puppies in rotten conditions whether its one puppy or 100 and the definition of a puppy farmer is NOT BASED ON HOW MANY THEY BREED.

Even if it were its against fair trading laws to put restrictions on people's ability to trade.

whats their definition of a farmer then if its not on how many they breed? thats a bit crappy no wonder ANKC breeders are being put in the same paddock!! that sux.. one farm produced blinkin 2000 pups a year they proudly tell everyone and they house 300 breeding dogs, is it how many they house then?

[Gayle.]

Getting back to the original discussion, those of you who are opposed to the proposed legislation but agree that puppy farms need to be closed without capturing ethical breeders in the same net......what are you doing about it? Genuine question.

There seems to be a lot of talk, a lot of throwing of hands in the air and a lot of wailing about what might be, but what actions are you and your representing bodies taking and who are you lobbying for change?

[Steve]

Would limiting the number of litters allowed to be sold from one "kennel" work? It wouldn't stop BYBers but surely for puppy mills pumping out 50 litters a year a limit may work.

In ethical breeder, even if they have a large kennel wound not want to be breeding more than 5-10 litters a year I would think.

Actually on second thoughts, i;m sure these dodgy type people would find ways around any type of restrictions

No that wont work - because people are just as able to breed puppies in rotten conditions whether its one puppy or 100 and the definition of a puppy farmer is NOT BASED ON HOW MANY THEY BREED.

Even if it were its against fair trading laws to put restrictions on people's ability to trade.

whats their definition of a farmer then if its not on how many they breed? thats a bit crappy no wonder ANKC breeders are being put in the same paddock!! that sux.. one farm produced blinkin 2000 pups a year they proudly tell everyone and they house 300 breeding dogs, is it how many they house then?

I dont know how many times Ive typed this in just this thread but Ill try and go slowly and do it again.

The definition which was decided on for the purposes of further discussions and future potential law changes by RSPCA Australia, RSPCA NSW, RSPCA ACT ,RSPCA Queensland, Death row pets, Animal welfare league, YounG lawyers, ANKC, Dogs NSW , MDBA and AAPDB -

IS

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

[oakway]

Getting back to the original discussion, those of you who are opposed to the proposed legislation but agree that puppy farms need to be closed without capturing ethical breeders in the same net......what are you doing about it? Genuine question.

There seems to be a lot of talk, a lot of throwing of hands in the air and a lot of wailing about what might be, but what actions are you and your representing bodies taking and who are you lobbying for change?

There are people even now working behind the scenes to repair the damade done by that rally.

Ask no questions you will be told no lies.

[Gayle.]

Behind what scenes and why would they lie? And who are they?

What damage did the rally cause?

[WreckitWhippet]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

[oakway]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

The only other thing to do, will be move to NZ.

[shortstep]

and that was the article i found against ANKC breeders, where are they getting their facts from they are going off half cocked.....you can easily trace heritage in a pedigree dog

Yes I noticed that.

They are demanding 'open stud books' so that parentage and ancestry of a dog can be traced back over the generations.

For the greater good.

[shortstep]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

The only other thing to do, will be move to NZ.

Already on it LOL

[WreckitWhippet]

and that was the article i found against ANKC breeders, where are they getting their facts from they are going off half cocked.....you can easily trace heritage in a pedigree dog

Yes I noticed that.

They are demanding 'open stud books' so that parentage and ancestry of a dog can be traced back over the generations.

For the greater good.

They want and have that info, so that they can draw a line in the sand when in comes to COI's and place yet another restriction on what we can and can't do as breeders.

ETA: of course that will be for the "greater good"

Edited September 23, 2010 by ReadySetGo

[toy dog]

Getting back to the original discussion, those of you who are opposed to the proposed legislation but agree that puppy farms need to be closed without capturing ethical breeders in the same net......what are you doing about it? Genuine question.

There seems to be a lot of talk, a lot of throwing of hands in the air and a lot of wailing about what might be, but what actions are you and your representing bodies taking and who are you lobbying for change?

i tried to get hoards of people emailing the council that happily keeps on approving these farms and refuses to shut them down even though they violate the code of practice over many years. they complained about being bombarded then set up an automatic response to the hoards telling everyone they were monitoring these farms which turned out to be a down right lie.

it is left to councils like wellington to monitor and ensure the legislation in place is followed but they are doing dilly squat. so then me and my friend (BTW we are both registered breeders, my friend has been for 40 plus years) wrote to the premier who buck passed it to another minister who buck passes it to others.

they all buck pass. so one person on their own can't do much but heaps of people can do alot. i'd like to see some sort of rally on the steps of wellington shire one day. they need to be stopped......thats what i'd like to see to get this council to take notice and stop approving these farms. they see nothing wrong with mass producing puppies in farms the councillors have personally told me in private emails.

been doing it for years as my family watched in horror, so the kennel club down here (heavily involved in the kennel club back then) wrote to the shire opposing it and i know of alot of residents that did but still the farms went ahead. this was about 18 years ago now.

so what other avenue can we take other than what ALV are doing now and that is collecting a heap of people who feel the same way and lobbying government to stop selling pets in shops? i think it is a good start it is getting good media coverage now so many are getting onboard which is what we want. i just wish that registered breeders would be united enough to get a profile together in the general public too.

liberal if they get in this state, want to put more laws in place and on their facebook page many are calling for him to do something historic not put in more laws, go the whole hog, ban sales. but its a start, at least the opposition is trying to get the vote and have actually answered the public. whereas the guy that is in now hasn't said a word hardly about this issue.

Edited September 23, 2010 by toy dog

[oakway]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

The only other thing to do, will be move to NZ.

Already on it LOL

Well take me too.

North Island please.

[toy dog]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

The only other thing to do, will be move to NZ.

[shortstep]

and that was the article i found against ANKC breeders, where are they getting their facts from they are going off half cocked.....you can easily trace heritage in a pedigree dog

Yes I noticed that.

They are demanding 'open stud books' so that parentage and ancestry of a dog can be traced back over the generations.

For the greater good.

They want and have that info, so that they can draw a line in the sand when in comes to COI's and place yet another restriction on what we can and can't do as breeders.

ETA: of course that will be for the "greater good"

Ok lets back up.

Open stud books means the stud book is not closed to outside dogs from other non approved registries or dogs with out registration.

To open a stud book means that you allow dogs that are not registered in the stud book or an already acceptable outside stud book to enter into your stud book.

For example, if you open the stud book for kelpies, it could mean that all the WKC dogs and the farm kelpies could then be registered in ANKC (which they currently can not be). It can also mean that you cross the current population of a breed with another breed to increase the genetic diversity, another words controlled cross breeding.

Opening a stud book or having open stud books, has nothing to do with allowing someone to see the pedigrees.

Pedigrees are already public information, can be purchased on disc and the RSPCA opps I mean Syn Uni already have them.

They already did the COI for the ANKC breeds and it was much lower than they had indicated it would be. I think Steve has those numbers.

So the RSPCA calling for the stud books to be opened so you can look back at the pedigree, shows that they have no idea what is meant by opening stud books. Even though they have no idea what it means, and what they think it means is wrong, it is still a welfare issue in purebred dogs.

Heaven help us.

For the greater good.

Edited September 23, 2010 by shortstep

[shortstep]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

The only other thing to do, will be move to NZ.

Already on it LOL

Well take me too.

North Island please.

You sure? I was thinking that South would be better.

Little chance of another huge earthquake down there now.

All the rebuilding wil make the economy strong.

Lot of fresh air and wide open spaces, sure is pretty.

Edited September 23, 2010 by shortstep

[WreckitWhippet]

and that was the article i found against ANKC breeders, where are they getting their facts from they are going off half cocked.....you can easily trace heritage in a pedigree dog

Yes I noticed that.

They are demanding 'open stud books' so that parentage and ancestry of a dog can be traced back over the generations.

For the greater good.

They want and have that info, so that they can draw a line in the sand when in comes to COI's and place yet another restriction on what we can and can't do as breeders.

ETA: of course that will be for the "greater good"

Ok lets back up.

Open stud books means the stub book is not closed to outside dogs from other non approved registries or dogs with out registration.

To open a stud book means that you allow dogs that are not registered in the stud book or an already acceptable outside stud book to enter into your stud book.

For example, if you open the stud book for kelpies, it could mean that all the WKC dogs and the farm kelpies could then be registered in ANKC (which they currently can not be). It can also mean that you cross the current population of a breed with another breed to increase the genetic diversity, another words controlled cross breeding.

Opening a stud book or having open stud books, has nothing to do with allowing someone to see the pedigrees.

Pedigrees are already public information, can be purchased on disc and the RSPCA opps I mean Syn Uni already have them.

They already did the COI for the ANKC breeds and it was much lower than they had indicated it would be. I think Steve has those numbers.

So the RSPCA calling for the stud books to be opened so you can look back at the pedigree, shows that they have no idea what is meant by opening stud books. Even though they have no idea what it means, and what they think it means is wrong, it is still a welfare issue in purebred dogs.

Heaven help us.

For the greater good.

My apologies, I read your orginal comment incorrectly.

I do understand what an open stud book is and how it operates.

[oakway]

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

and substandard will include our homes... you will need DA approved kennels in order to survive as a breeder.

The only other thing to do, will be move to NZ.

Already on it LOL

Well take me too.

North Island please.

You sure? I was thinking that South would be better.

Little chance of another huge earthquake down there now.

All the rebuilding wil make the economy strong.

Lot of fresh air and wide open spaces, sure is pretty.

Point taken.

[shortstep]

and that was the article i found against ANKC breeders, where are they getting their facts from they are going off half cocked.....you can easily trace heritage in a pedigree dog

Yes I noticed that.

They are demanding 'open stud books' so that parentage and ancestry of a dog can be traced back over the generations.

For the greater good.

They want and have that info, so that they can draw a line in the sand when in comes to COI's and place yet another restriction on what we can and can't do as breeders.

ETA: of course that will be for the "greater good"

Ok lets back up.

Open stud books means the stub book is not closed to outside dogs from other non approved registries or dogs with out registration.

To open a stud book means that you allow dogs that are not registered in the stud book or an already acceptable outside stud book to enter into your stud book.

For example, if you open the stud book for kelpies, it could mean that all the WKC dogs and the farm kelpies could then be registered in ANKC (which they currently can not be). It can also mean that you cross the current population of a breed with another breed to increase the genetic diversity, another words controlled cross breeding.

Opening a stud book or having open stud books, has nothing to do with allowing someone to see the pedigrees.

Pedigrees are already public information, can be purchased on disc and the RSPCA opps I mean Syn Uni already have them.

They already did the COI for the ANKC breeds and it was much lower than they had indicated it would be. I think Steve has those numbers.

So the RSPCA calling for the stud books to be opened so you can look back at the pedigree, shows that they have no idea what is meant by opening stud books. Even though they have no idea what it means, and what they think it means is wrong, it is still a welfare issue in purebred dogs.

Heaven help us.

For the greater good.

My apologies, I read your orginal comment incorrectly.

I do understand what an open stud book is and how it operates.

Yes I knew that

However there may be many people (including the RSPCA Vic webpage) that do not know what it means.

I was a miss not to start with education on the subject first, so everyone would understand my comments.

BTW for those who may not know. A Closed stub book means that only approved outside registered dogs can entry into the breeding population.

Neither a closed or open stud book in themsleves indicate anything about the heatlh or welfare of the breed in question.

All issues surronding open, partial open or closed stud books need to be addressed for each breed as a seperate issue.

There should never be a sweeping uniform 'correct' policy on closing or opening stud books for all breeds, that would be contra indicated and potentially a very reckless position reguarding health and welfare.

All matters concerning opening or closing a stud book should be discussed on a breed by breed basis.

Edited September 23, 2010 by shortstep

[Souff]

I dont know how many times Ive typed this in just this thread but Ill try and go slowly and do it again.

The definition which was decided on for the purposes of further discussions and future potential law changes by RSPCA Australia, RSPCA NSW, RSPCA ACT ,RSPCA Queensland, Death row pets, Animal welfare league, YounG lawyers, ANKC, Dogs NSW , MDBA and AAPDB -

IS

SOMEONE WHO BREEDS PUPPIES IN SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. There is nothing - nothing which includes a person in that definition based on how many they breed, how many they own.

Steve,

Souff is one of the slower ones so I have to ask:

What is the definition of "Standard Conditions" in which one should be breeding puppies?

You see, once I know that, well then I will make sure that I never breed puppies in those "substandard conditions".

thanks,

Souff

[Steve]

Standard conditions are laid down in mandatory codes for breeding dogs and in council by laws for each shire.

Have a look at this video - Banksia Park breed puppies in standard conditions.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Steve