Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[BJean]

I do have problems however with some people's arguments "why should I let someone into my home" and "who should have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my dogs"......

Do you think that is the argument?

Don't you think it matters who I let into my home and what they are looking for?

btw to inspect you need definitions of 'acceptable' right?

So if you have an idea about what is an acceptable and unacceptable argument

do you have an idea about how to define what my breeding facility should look like and what is okay and not okay to do with my dogs ie: how I keep them, where they sleep, conditions etc?

And in the name of 'protecting' my dogs and the people who buy from me, the dogs will need to be inspected too, yes?

So how will you measure a dog's mental and physical health, whether it's desexed/entire etc?

If you are breeding and selling "anything" you should be transparent, open to scrutiny and open to inspection. No matter what your business. And as with anything else that is sold, you have to have regulation to protect the animals in your care and to protect the people purchasing from you.

Every one of us that sell things do so under legislation. Why are you so special?

see above

come back with a definition for me.

+ what jdavis said:

Would you want the person doing the inspection to belong to an organisation that already thinks you are doing the wrong thing? If it was an independent government organisation doing the inspection it wouldn't be an issue, but the RSPCA have already made their views on breeders clear. The health department sends an inspector to check your bakery you have a way to appeal their decisions. The RSPCA decided you are doing the wrong thing they take your dogs, charge you an arm and a leg, if they get their way you have to pay their kennel fees upfront, and then they injure and kill your dogs and you have no recourse. Would you want that? Imagine someone who doesn't like you has unstoppable power over you, would you give them the ammo to use?

Edited September 21, 2010 by lilli

[asal]

I do have problems however with some people's arguments "why should I let someone into my home" and "who should have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my dogs"......

Do you think that is the argument?

Don't you think it matters who I let into my home and what they are looking for?

btw to inspect you need guidelines right?

So if you have an idea about what is an acceptable and unacceptable argument

do you have an idea about how to define what a breeders home (nay facility) should look like?

and what is okay and not okay to do with my dogs? ie: how I keep them, where they sleep, conditions etc?

Also are the dogs inspected?

If you are breeding and selling "anything" you should be transparent, open to scrutiny and open to inspection. No matter what your business. And as with anything else that is sold, you have to have regulation to protect the animals in your care and to protect the people purchasing from you.

Every one of us that sell things do so under legislation. Why are you so special?

see above

come back with a definition for me.

+ what jdavis said:

Would you want the person doing the inspection to belong to an organisation that already thinks you are doing the wrong thing? If it was an independent government organisation doing the inspection it wouldn't be an issue, but the RSPCA have already made their views on breeders clear. The health department sends an inspector to check your bakery you have a way to appeal their decisions. The RSPCA decided you are doing the wrong thing they take your dogs, charge you an arm and a leg, if they get their way you have to pay their kennel fees upfront, and then they injure and kill your dogs and you have no recourse. Would you want that? Imagine someone who doesn't like you has unstoppable power over you, would you give them the ammo to use?

of course you would

if you dont your "unethical" remember

the ones who think they are so ethical are too dumb to realise, not matter how precious and ethical they (think they) are its not going to protect them .

to the likes of donnelly, your scum

i can remember my mum setting us kids up for our vaccinations. no way she was going to be embarrassed by her kids kicking and screaming they dont want a bloody great needle shoved into them.

so what does she do?

do you want to get sick?

muggins says 'NO"

"well this needle will stop you being sick and maybe ending up in hospital."

do you want to risk ending up in hospital?

muggins say "no"

so will u be good and let the nice nurse/doctor give u the needle?

n all her little muggins chorus

"yes"

so there we stand shaking in our boots, not a single one wants that jab, but we'd been primed. we all stood like lambs to the slaugher.

ok still get my shots... but its in the butt. no agonised arms for me anymore.

well i want the butt shot.....i want accountabality before i stand still for any more "shots" anywere, any way before any power surged mongrel enteres my home again

n the only way that can be prevented is?

no animals

you dont have any other options as it stands now

Edited September 21, 2010 by asal

[Steve]

asal you're a crack up But what you say is true. I am a dog breeder - time I kicked the habit.

[WreckitWhippet]

What Asal is saying is that the RSPCA have the power to seize animals already baised on the views of the inspector that a dog is in need of immediate veterinary care. They have had these powers for I believe 20 odd years. They only use them when it is financially conducive for them to do so. This is something the general public is not aware of. They do not have to charge you for anything to do this either and even if you are innocent they are still entitled to give you the bill for all kennelling and vet costs.

Part of the law being proposed gives the RSPCA the right to seize animals and demand payment for kennelling etc up front, if the owner can not they must sign the dogs over. This is before any charges are laid. Given that there is no court of appeal why are we pushing to allow this too when clearly there are issues with the RSPCA abusing their power already? That is I believe what Asal is trying to say.

To be honest I agree. I think that part of the bill is a minefield for everyone and a bonanza for the RSPCA.

This needs to be bolded, put in red and VERY large letters

[Erny]

What Asal is saying is that the RSPCA have the power to seize animals already baised on the views of the inspector that a dog is in need of immediate veterinary care. They have had these powers for I believe 20 odd years. They only use them when it is financially conducive for them to do so. This is something the general public is not aware of. They do not have to charge you for anything to do this either and even if you are innocent they are still entitled to give you the bill for all kennelling and vet costs.

Part of the law being proposed gives the RSPCA the right to seize animals and demand payment for kennelling etc up front, if the owner can not they must sign the dogs over. This is before any charges are laid. Given that there is no court of appeal why are we pushing to allow this too when clearly there are issues with the RSPCA abusing their power already? That is I believe what Asal is trying to say.

To be honest I agree. I think that part of the bill is a minefield for everyone and a bonanza for the RSPCA.

This needs to be bolded, put in red and VERY large letters

That's scarey .

I wonder how the recent Victorian laws will also impact on this? I mean ..... is it possible the RSPCA can seize your dogs and then because some of the seized youngsters haven't been microchipped yet, can end up destroying them inside 48 hours?

I haven't thought that one through yet but I think it is something to think about and determine the possibilities.

ETA: No .......... surely not. This would have to ONLY be in cases where the dogs aren't ID'd, wouldn't it? But that wouldn't be the case where animals are seized - because that alone means the RSPCA knows who the owner is. ??? Hhhmm. I need to go back to those other recently introduced laws and refresh my memory on them.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Erny

[BJean]

I certainly don't support Baillieu's pledge. In fact I am very against his proposals. And I don't support making life difficult for ethical breeders.

I do have problems however with some people's arguments "why should I let someone into my home" and "who should have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my dogs"......

If you are breeding and selling "anything" you should be transparent, open to scrutiny and open to inspection. No matter what your business. And as with anything else that is sold, you have to have regulation to protect the animals in your care and to protect the people purchasing from you.

Every one of us that sell things do so under legislation. Why are you so special?

Well it soon will not be a problem for you, the large scale breeding facilities will be inspected and any small breeders that are still around.

Now if you are buying a puppy from an inspected and approved large scale breeding facility, I am not sure if you as the buyer will be able to visit the mum and pups. Play with them, temperament test the litter and have weekly updates and discussions about the pups as they grow with their breeder like you might have done in the past with a home breeders. Which BTW would have given you ample time to scrutinize how the pups and dogs were managed in the breeders home. But I am sure the staff member on duty that day at the facility will be able to answer any questions you have. You will also know that the large scale breeding facility has passed inspection and is approved to breed and sell puppies. So it seems you will have ample opportunity to get a pup from an inspected source.

For the greater good.

I'm not all that interested in made up hypotheticals......

I was hoping for an answer to the questions posed

Actually RSG reminded me of something ...

I'll tell you why I'm so special

because I know my dogs better than any rscpa or whatever inspector or indeed any well intended animal advocate

and I will protect them from ignorance and mishandling and cruel and unusual treatment.

So I will do all I can to protect my dogs from being 'inspected' and seized and then housed in an rspca/council pen

until the conditions drive their instincts to shut down mentally and react in the only way they know how ...

to protect my dogs from being poled, penned, poled and then euth'd.

Why am I so special? because I do everything for my dogs and I dont give a toss about the advocated greater good -

not if there's a chance my dogs will suffer for it.

Now you tell me why you are so special to demand that my dogs should suffer because another dog suffers at the hands of someone else at some other place.

You said its about dogs' rights?

Yeah it is, so why are my dogs' rights less important than a puppy farm dog that can't be defined or quantified?

Edited September 21, 2010 by lilli

[Steve]

What Asal is saying is that the RSPCA have the power to seize animals already baised on the views of the inspector that a dog is in need of immediate veterinary care. They have had these powers for I believe 20 odd years. They only use them when it is financially conducive for them to do so. This is something the general public is not aware of. They do not have to charge you for anything to do this either and even if you are innocent they are still entitled to give you the bill for all kennelling and vet costs.

Part of the law being proposed gives the RSPCA the right to seize animals and demand payment for kennelling etc up front, if the owner can not they must sign the dogs over. This is before any charges are laid. Given that there is no court of appeal why are we pushing to allow this too when clearly there are issues with the RSPCA abusing their power already? That is I believe what Asal is trying to say.

To be honest I agree. I think that part of the bill is a minefield for everyone and a bonanza for the RSPCA.

This needs to be bolded, put in red and VERY large letters

That's scarey .

I wonder how the recent Victorian laws will also impact on this? I mean ..... is it possible the RSPCA can seize your dogs and then because some of the seized youngsters haven't been microchipped yet, can end up destroying them inside 48 hours.

I haven't thought that one through yet but I think it is something to think about and determine the possibilities.

the RSPCA can sieze your dogs and Put them down anyway. They can take your dog have it looked at by one of their vets put it down without you ever having the right to a second opinion or getting a look at the evidence with in the hour because before you blink the body is gone. Their story is that their vet said they were suffering too much to allow it to live. Try and complain about it and they tell you it will be sorted out in court.

When you are found guilty you try to appeal and complain but then you just have sour grapes because you were found guilty.

Go back and have a look at what the ex RSPCA vet said about Judy Gard - do you think she had much hope of getting her seized dogs back if it hadnt have gone the way it did without the Barraster getting in quickly? Not likely.

[oakway]

I certainly don't support Baillieu's pledge. In fact I am very against his proposals. And I don't support making life difficult for ethical breeders.

I do have problems however with some people's arguments "why should I let someone into my home" and "who should have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my dogs"......

If you are breeding and selling "anything" you should be transparent, open to scrutiny and open to inspection. No matter what your business. And as with anything else that is sold, you have to have regulation to protect the animals in your care and to protect the people purchasing from you.

Every one of us that sell things do so under legislation. Why are you so special?

Why are we so special........................Who said we were?????????????????????

Go and have a look at the rules and regulations we are already bounded by....................sheeeeesh.

Use good ethical registered breeders and don't buy from puppy farms or pet shops and you may help the decline of puppy farming.

[Souff]

Can you clarify if those requirements are for hobby breeders, which would encompass most ANKC registered breeders, or only for those who run a registered business breedings dogs?

There is no difference in the eyes of the RSPCA and the AWL.

If you sell 1 puppy in your life you are a commercial breeder because a commercial transaction has taken place.

This applies to any animal that you breed, doesnt matter if it is a flea, a frog, a cat, a dog, a horse or a camel.

That is it.

Souff

[*Bones*]

It is obvious the regulations posters speak of will be applied to all breeders.

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department.

Of course they will stop breeding.

Anyone who thinks they wont are fooling themselves.

And Perhaps it is a good thing. There is so much random cruelty today, if dogs are very difficult to buy, and cost thousands, the cruelty may stop.

[Souff]

It is obvious the regulations posters speak of will be applied to all breeders.

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department.

Of course they will stop breeding.

Anyone who thinks they wont are fooling themselves.

And Perhaps it is a good thing. There is so much random cruelty today, if dogs are very difficult to buy, and cost thousands, the cruelty may stop.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs.

Oscars Law included.

We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders".

Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner!

They are not interested in the future of good dogs.

Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers.

Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause.

Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ......

Souff

[*Bones*]

At the dog park, there is an entire class of dog - presumably purebred, but so far from the dogs shown in the ring, it is an Act of Faith to label them the same breed. Lanky Spaniels, twice normal size, narrow headed, lean and tall Labradors, funny looking retrievers, JRT which aren't. Bred by byb or puppy mills.

[shortstep]

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

[oakway]

It is obvious the regulations posters speak of will be applied to all breeders.

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department.

Of course they will stop breeding.

Anyone who thinks they wont are fooling themselves.

And Perhaps it is a good thing. There is so much random cruelty today, if dogs are very difficult to buy, and cost thousands, the cruelty may stop.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs.

Oscars Law included.

We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders".

Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner!

They are not interested in the future of good dogs.

Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers.

Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause.

Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ......

Souff

I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs.

The pet owning public fell for it.

With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect.

If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?.

[Nekhbet]

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws.

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally.

Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing.

Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too.

I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Nekhbet

[shortstep]

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws.

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally.

Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing.

Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too.

I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.

A yes a good reprimand is in order for the ANKC breeders. Not only had they better put up and shut up, but they better do it with a smile on their face. It is all their fault, BYB, puppy farms, what the public thinks and how animal rights people behave. The sooner they admit this, the sooner they can get back to breeding your next purebred dog.

' Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers.'

Statements like that make it clear that it really is time to say,

No puppies for sale.

Check with your animal rights group to locate a new and imporved,

inspected and approved large scale breeding facility to purchase your new puppy.

For the greater good.

[oakway]

ANKC breeders didn't go into a business, or to be randomly inspected. They wanted to breed a few dogs to show and to improve the breed, not to have to keep records and be answerable to the ANKC and a government department

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws.

We need to do a massive ANKC breeder stop work (Well not massive as we are the smallest group of breeders, and it is not work but you get the idea).

Every breeder in the country needs to say, I quit and will stay quit until the government listens to and provides what we need to produce the happy healthy dogs we know how to breed.

If the only way they can find to go after puppy farms and animal abuser is to make life unbearable for the ANKC breeders, then so be it.

They can all live with the reality of that choice. They will understand right away what it will be like when there is not a single ANKC pup for sale to the public.

Hundreds of breeders on DOl with a big X across their kennel information with the words 'No longer providing ANKC pups for sale to the public, contact your representative to ask why'.

I suggested some time ago that we breed without selling and this is a perfect example of why that needs to happen. Only breed to get your next pup and give any other pups to other breeders, fanciers and close friends. If that is how this all ends up then so be it, I can live with that.

Let public turn to the animal rights groups who drove off the ANKC breeders, so they can be told to source a pup from one of their new and improved, RSPCA inspected and Gov approved large scale breeding facilities.

For the greater good.

Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally.

Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing.

Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too.

I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.

A yes a good reprimand is in order for the ANKC breeders. Not only had they better put up and shut up, but they better do it with a smile on their face. It is all their fault, BYB, puppy farms, what the public thinks and how animal rights people behave. The sooner they admit this, the sooner they can get back to breeding your next purebred dog.

' Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers.'

Statements like that make it clear that it really is time to say,

No puppies for sale.

Check with your animal rights group to locate a new and imporved,

inspected and approved large scale breeding facility to purchase your new puppy.

For the greater good.

:D :D :D

Careful some of them might just believe you.

[Nekhbet]

Not only had they better put up and shut up, but they better do it with a smile on their face

If you had read it properly I am saying the exact opposite. Stand up, make yourselves heard and educate the public

Statements like that make it clear that it really is time to say,

No puppies for sale.

Check with your animal rights group to locate a new and imporved,

inspected and approved large scale breeding facility to purchase your new puppy.

For the greater good.

FFS grow up. You cannot say your puppy sales to owners do not in any way contribute to help keep your hobby afloat so pull your head in, otherwise you would be giving them away. This is the shitty attitude that will see the demise of the pedigree dog. You know why? You'll play everyone right into the hands of the mass marketing pet stores and farmers. I'm on YOUR side. I WANT to see more purebreed dogs but the attitudes coming from some pedigree breeders frankly stinks. But no .. right we just wont share our lollies with the other children

This is not the world it was 30 years ago where mongrels were worthless and purebreed dogs sold themselves. The world is changing and to survive you MUST change with it. To ensure the survival of pdigree dogs

- the public needs to be invited to participate in the pedigree world (open days, neuter shows, etc)

- There needs to be cohesion and agreement within the pedigree world instead of backstabbing, whinging and self serving attitudes

- There needs to be a push for the ANKC to use YOUR money properly and promote YOUR, YOUR EFFORTS AND YOUR BREEDS properly to the public

- Mass marketing to show why pedigree pups ARE preferable to puppy farmed dogs

- There needs to be pride and acceptance attached to people who want to breed their chosen breed under an ANKC kennel name and COE, they should be flocking to the ANKC instead they're leaving

- There needs to be an overall feeling of achievement and pride in the buyer when purchasing a pedigree pup

THe iron is hot and THE ANKC IS NOT STRIKING! People are now up in arms about this puppy farm/pet store issue and all I hear from the pedigree org and clubs is crickets chirping. It is ultimately about the dogs, but the sentiment still seems to be more about the people.

[oakway]

Not only had they better put up and shut up, but they better do it with a smile on their face

If you had read it properly I am saying the exact opposite. Stand up, make yourselves heard and educate the public

Statements like that make it clear that it really is time to say,

No puppies for sale.

Check with your animal rights group to locate a new and imporved,

inspected and approved large scale breeding facility to purchase your new puppy.

For the greater good.

FFS grow up. You cannot say your puppy sales to owners do not in any way contribute to help keep your hobby afloat so pull your head in, otherwise you would be giving them away. This is the shitty attitude that will see the demise of the pedigree dog. You know why? You'll play everyone right into the hands of the mass marketing pet stores and farmers. I'm on YOUR side. I WANT to see more purebreed dogs but the attitudes coming from some pedigree breeders frankly stinks. But no .. right we just wont share our lollies with the other children

What in the name of god makes you think we get any money out of it ?.

What a joke. Most of us would be lucky to break even after a litter.

We breed to improve the breed and maybe just get a better one next litter.

[Nekhbet]

What in the name of god makes you think we get any money out of it ?.

What a joke. Most of us would be lucky to break even after a litter.

We breed to improve the breed and maybe just get a better one next litter.

so when you sell your puppies, and people pay you money it just *poof* dissapears into the ether? I'm not saying to make or aim for profit. I am saying there is money changing hands here and it is there in order to help you at least somewhat in your endeavours is it not? You are making some effort to recoup your litter costs in order to maintain your ability to breed, show or whatever else you chose to do with your dogs, no?