Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[Nekhbet]

ok if anyone has the links or documents I'd be very interested in reading them

[Guardienne]

People who breed dogs well, worry that potential solutions to stopping dogs suffering as much at the hands of a puppy farmers would, in effect, make their dogs suffer more. Why do they think that ? Take the time to read mandatory codes of practice already in place in NSW and the gold coast as if you only own 2 entire bitches.

I am interested...

Exactly what in the mandatory codes of practice would make your dogs suffer more?

Well for a start My dogs would suffer more if I had to house them down the back in a shed with whirly birds and concrete floors.

But there's nothing about having to do this in the codes of practice you're referring to......

I can't see how either of these codes of practice would make your animals suffer?

[Nekhbet]

http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/attachment...de-practice.pdf

gold coast city council mentions nothing about bitches not being in the house with you unless I missed it?

[CJay]

If they continue to make laws which impact on breeding dogs no matter how many come under one legislation it has to impact differently on someone who breeds one litter to someone who breeds 100 litters.

Sorry i'm a little confused, when you say a person who breeds 1 litter do you mean 1 litter a year, month or just a 1 off litter, never to breed again?

[RuralPug]

If they continue to make laws which impact on breeding dogs no matter how many come under one legislation it has to impact differently on someone who breeds one litter to someone who breeds 100 litters.

Sorry, Steve, but could you reword that one? I believe I know what you are trying to say but it doesn't read that way. To me, anyway.

[Dame Aussie]

From the RSPCA website- Join the RSPCA on the steps of parliament house to advocate for tougher laws and regulations to be put in place.

I think you're wrong Pam. If it were to enforce laws already in place Id be there with you.

If it was to enforce the laws already in place I'd be there too.

Yep I'd be all for enforcing what currently exists...

But I know that's not the case and supporting such events is just helping to bang the nail in my own breeder coffin. When the RSPCA and the likes can come up with something that is not to my detriment, or anyone who breeds dogs with due care and consideration, then please let me know about it.

Re the quote in red above, to put it in context you need the rest of the quote....

It actually says

"Now is your chance to be a voice for the dogs living a life of misery in Victoria's puppy factories.

Join the RSPCA along with many animal welfare organisations on the steps of Parliament House to advocate for tougher laws and regulations to be put in place. Help us send a strong message to the State's political leaders that factory farming should not be tolerated."

Not once anywhere have I seen any intent of changing laws on how dogs are currently kept by breeders or establishments just the intent to change legislation to outlaw large scale/mass production of puppies. But if I'm wrong I'm happy to stand corrected.

From Oscars Law

"Now is your chance to be a voice for the dogs imprisoned in Victoria's puppy factories. Help send a strong message to the State's political leaders that we will not tolerate the factory farming of our companion animals.

Join us on the steps of Parliament House and stand up for all the dogs on puppy factories and support Oscars Law"

The only legislation Oscars Law itself talks about changing is Quote:

"•Abolish the mass production of dogs. Make factory farming of dogs illegal

•Ban the sale of animals from pet shops, online and in print media"

Each of these campaigns describe puppy factories as mass producing facilities.

People are even saying they don't want regulations changed... From Debra Tranter herself on Prisoners for Profit website:

"How is increasing the fine going to help the dogs Joe Helper? $2400 the cost of one litter of puppies-so what!

Mr Helper, we do not want more regulations that the local Council ranger simply refuses to enforce or doesn't have time to enforce. We want puppy factories abolished. Stop telling us how our pets can be kept, bred and sold."

From what I've read throughout these campaigns "ethical" breeders have been supported and even promoted..... people are being told to go to shelters, rescue or ethical registered breeders to purchase their dogs.

I'll be at the rally with my ex puppy farm breeding girl and hope to see as many likeminded people there as possible

I want to say this - and please - this is important. The proposals being tendered do not - I repeat - do not specifically target large scale commercial breeders.

The definition of a puppy farmer for the purposes of proposed changes is

and I quote from the RSPCA roundtable conference.

Recommended way forward:

1.1 A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs’ psychological, behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Puppy farms are usually large-scale commercial operations, but inadequate conditions may also exist in small volume breeding establishments which may or may not be run for profit.

OK now I see where you are coming from as far as breeders, not looking after their dogs could also be affected as far as the RSPCA are concerned, but help me out here..... What's the issue if they are are trying to stop anyone that isn't providing adequate conditions? Not sure that I can see this as a negative thing regardless of who isn't providing adequate conditions.

I don't see the issue either, if you are breeding under good conditions then you are not included in that definition?

[Shmurps]

I am so confused

What powers do the RSPCA have to address Puppy Farms under government legislation?

Is it an RSPCA issue (ie not acting or are they unable to act because they don't have the power?)

Or is it local council? and who is not enforcing the laws that are in place now?

[Guardienne]

I am so confused

What powers do the RSPCA have to address Puppy Farms under government legislation?

Is it an RSPCA issue (ie not acting or are they unable to act because they don't have the power?)

Or is it local council? and who is not enforcing the laws that are in place now?

In Victoria, it's the local councils. The DPI make the rules, local councils enforce them..... or chose not to inforce them.

[Steve]

I need to be clear about this - what Im trying to say.

Im not trying to discourage any one from attending the rally - I think its a great thing to do and if what you are rallying against is what I think puppy farming is and calling for new laws to regulate that then Im 100% behind you.

However, if everyone doesnt agree with what a puppy farmer is then my concern is that the outcome wont be what is expected. My idea of what new laws we should have is different to many others.

If Oscars law feels there should be new laws to stop mass production of puppies in factory type conditions thats great but when other groups jump on the shirt tails and use this as a platform and show of support for what their application for a mandatory code is the definition changes.

Breeders [and rescue] have to live under laws and mandatory codes OTHER those which are bought in under companion animals legislation. There are several complex sub issues which in my opinion would be better left as it wont take us anywhere here and its coming off as if Im not supporting what Oscars law is all about. I do but I would have felt better if when I asked for the definition of what it was that was being protested about was more clear.

[Guardienne]

I need to be clear about this - what Im trying to say.

Im not trying to discourage any one from attending the rally - I think its a great thing to do and if what you are rallying against is what I think puppy farming is and calling for new laws to regulate that then Im 100% behind you.

However, if everyone doesnt agree with what a puppy farmer is then my concern is that the outcome wont be what is expected. My idea of what new laws we should have is different to many others.

If Oscars law feels there should be new laws to stop mass production of puppies in factory type conditions thats great but when other groups jump on the shirt tails and use this as a platform and show of support for what their application for a mandatory code is the definition changes.

Breeders [and rescue] have to live under laws and mandatory codes OTHER those which are bought in under companion animals legislation. There are several complex sub issues which in my opinion would be better left as it wont take us anywhere here and its coming off as if Im not supporting what Oscars law is all about. I do but I would have felt better if when I asked for the definition of what it was that was being protested about was more clear.

No I don't think it's coming across as though you don't support oscars law. I hear what you are saying and I am interested in what was in the codes of practice in the other states that made you wary or scared to support it, even if the definition of what a puppy farm is did include small scale operations? It is good to get this stuff out in the open and debated. It's not smart to just blindly follow anything. But so far I haven't seen anything that has made me concerned for ethical breeders. The codes of practices in NSW and QLD cater for dogs to be housed inside etc. I have seen things that are quite worrying for private rescue but that's a completely different topic.

Edited - because I really should proof read before I post to remove gramatical errors :S

Edited September 16, 2010 by Guardienne

[MavericksMission]

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[Guardienne]

For anyone wondering if it's worth attending tomorrow.

This is current footage taken this month in Victoria of what is at stake.

Don't watch if you have a heart and you don't want to cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erWL0v_tsKo

[mackiemad]

hey guys, i know there is some discussion about what consititutes a puppy farm, and to a non-breeder like me some of it (not all) reads as though some people are worried that registered breeders will be shit doen, and therefore will not support anything that tries to get this kind of practise outlawed.

BUT this is on today and i think it is important to try and get the pollies to THINK about the issue at the very least. if we can get some exposure and get some of the public who aren't aware even a little more informed then surely it is a win?

anyhoo, i've been writing emails often to ted baillieu as he is my representative and at least he is becoming aware, even if he isn't as educated about the issue as we need yet:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu...0918-15hac.html

if he makes noise, hopefully the gov will too as it may become an election issue?

[tdierikx]

Considering that the current laws, regulations, acts, subclauses, etc... aren't being enforced regularly, equally, or effectively - why even ask to bring in NEW laws?

I do think that raising public awareness of where a good number of puppies in this country come from is a good thing though...

My concern is the same as a few others' here... that some of the more radical protesters might be working to a very different agenda to what we really should be trying to achieve.

I'm not sure that I could fully support the views of people who think that it's perfectly fine for themselves to break the law by breaking and entering other people's properties and threatening (or even resorting to) physical violence to further their own causes... all in the name of animal welfare...

T.

[sumosmum]

New laws on breeding have been mentioned by the Vic Government already. See link..

Vic Gov Proposes New Breeding Laws

So, if people in Victoria want to have a say, best to get in there and be heard now. The last new dog laws went through Parliament without the public knowing much about it.

If people have ideas and thoughts, now is the time to step up and make their thoughts known.

I think this rally is a great thing. No point sitting around whinging about the way the laws go, and doing nothing else. This event will show that people do care.

I am so sick of hearing all the complaints about the Law, and when the complainers are asked what they have done about it, if they have written letters, spoken to the local MPs, anything, the answer is "No, haven't done anything". This event gives the opportunity to have a say. To send a message. Well done to the orgs. that are supporting and participating in this event and to all that attend and support it.

Well done to the people who do expose these filthy farms and let all see how things go for the life of a dog in a puppy farm. Otherwise, how would anyone know?

See all you good people there in a few hours.

[Jed]

I would like to see the rally achieve only ONE thing. The banning of pups for sale in pet shops.

If this was done, puppy farm sales would be slashed 50 - 80%.

And they wouldn't be able to continue because there would not be enough income.

Ban the export of pups to anyone other than registered breeders in other countries, and allow no more than 2 to be exported to the same person/same address in a 12 month period.

Maybe that's too simple??

And really, we do have enough laws now for these cruel buggers to be stopped.

I hope all you good folks who are putting in a day for the puppy farm dogs have a win

[mortonplace]

I would like to see the rally achieve only ONE thing. The banning of pups for sale in pet shops.

If this was done, puppy farm sales would be slashed 50 - 80%.

And they wouldn't be able to continue because there would not be enough income.

Ban the export of pups to anyone other than registered breeders in other countries, and allow no more than 2 to be exported to the same person/same address in a 12 month period.

Maybe that's too simple??

And really, we do have enough laws now for these cruel buggers to be stopped.

I hope all you good folks who are putting in a day for the puppy farm dogs have a win

Totally agree otherwise people will get confused and the breeder[reg vca ethical breeders]my come under the same ruleings

[Cosmolo]

People wouldn't have been confused about the difference between registered breeders and 'the rest' if Dogs Vic had actually attended and had a stand today as they could and should have done.

What a great turnout and a great rally- well done to all of the organisers and everyone who particpated.

[jata]

People wouldn't have been confused about the difference between registered breeders and 'the rest' if Dogs Vic had actually attended and had a stand today as they could and should have done.

What a great turnout and a great rally- well done to all of the organisers and everyone who particpated.

WoW what a fantastic day .. very moving & emotional, was so great to be amongst so many great people & their wonderful dogs

Cosmolo your speech was wonderful!

Edited September 19, 2010 by jata

[prodigybxr]

Such a great day. Well done everybody