Can Dog Sense Intense Love/resentment From Their Owners?

[Bubitty]

I just wonder about this. Bitty and I have hit something I think. I have always adored her and we have a great relationship but lately I think it’s changed. It’s even better than before. When we train she works her little heart out for me. I am not sure how to describe it but I am so so so so so incredibly fond of her and it’s almost like she is responding to this somehow in her everyday behaviour and interactions with me. She just puts her heart 200% into everything I ask of her.

Its making me wonder if they can feel intense love or any resentment we have towards them.

What does everyone think? Do you think they know if we did everything right for them but didn’t like them ? Can they tell if we adore them incredibly?

[WreckitWhippet]

Love and resentment are human feelings, dogs do not understand those. They respond to good leadership, meeting their needs and affection..

ETA: I had a puppy that would turn himself inside out for me, but I was just going through the motions. The consistent approach to training, pack stability and leadership from me, meant that he was happy and well rounded, despite the fact that I felt nothing for him and there was no connection what so ever on my part

Edited September 5, 2010 by ReadySetGo

[Staranais]

Depends what you mean by can they feel it. Dogs are pack animals, and are amazing at reading body language. I believe that dogs can understand and respond to the emotions & moods of their pack members.

But they're not mind readers. And I think that sometimes the message we think we are giving our dogs aren't the messages that they receieve. E.g. give a dog lots of attention and treats but no discipline, and it will quite possibly feel insecure instead of "loved".

[jacqui835]

Depends what you mean by can they feel it. Dogs are pack animals, and are amazing at reading body language. I believe that dogs can understand and respond to the emotions & moods of their pack members.

But they're not mind readers. And I think that sometimes the message we think we are giving our dogs aren't the messages that they receieve. E.g. give a dog lots of attention and treats but no discipline, and it will quite possibly feel insecure instead of "loved".

Thing is though, humans don't respond well to all love and treats and no boundaries either. When we feel vulnerable, we like to feel like the people looking after us are competent.

My dog picks up my frustration very quickly, and stops listening to me. I kind of like it about him actually, because he helps me to be more aware of myself and what I'm feeling. I know when I'm on top of the game when he's doing everything I want when I want it.

[Lyla]

I just wonder about this. Bitty and I have hit something I think. I have always adored her and we have a great relationship but lately I think it’s changed. It’s even better than before. When we train she works her little heart out for me. I am not sure how to describe it but I am so so so so so incredibly fond of her and it’s almost like she is responding to this somehow in her everyday behaviour and interactions with me. She just puts her heart 200% into everything I ask of her.

Its making me wonder if they can feel intense love or any resentment we have towards them.

What does everyone think? Do you think they know if we did everything right for them but didn’t like them ? Can they tell if we adore them incredibly?

I have a bit of a similar situation here with my boy, and I think it is definately related to affection. He is now 2, but I've only owned him for 7 months. When he first came to live here, I had no trust in him behaviour wise (running away, not listening or taking notice of me). Temperament wise he was fine, just a typical Lab, but I had no connection with him, and I don't think he had ever had a connection with anyone either. After a couple of months I really started to become very fond of this big boofa, and I think it changed the way I interacted with him. He changed in his behaviour with me too. I could not even walk him before because he was so big, strong, and uncaring of what I wanted, now I spend my days tripping over him because he is always walking on my feet, looking into my eyes! I have also discovered that this boy would prefer cuddles over food (and this is a LAB!!), so I am not sure if he was just so starved of love and attention, that this is now his motivator.

I can definately understand your thinking, it's like something has clicked, and you are both on a new level of trust and understanding with each other.

ETA: it may be different with each dog, because I have one who nomatter how happy / cranky I am with her she will still be standing there wagging and smiling. She is perfectly behaved when there is food on offer, but has selective hearing when you don't. She has always been like this, it seems that the more "loving" I am with her, the more she thinks she can do what she wants, the tougher I am, the better behaved she is. Strangely she is a dog that thrives on being patted. I can't figure her out.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Got nuthin

[W Sibs]

Funny you bought this up Bubs... my family was discussing this over Father's Day lunch.

I agree with ReadySetGo that they don't understand the concept of love or resentment, but I believe that they do feel and read their owners body language and energy, and feed off that.

Edited September 6, 2010 by CW EW

[dee lee]

ETA: it may be different with each dog, because I have one who nomatter how happy / cranky I am with her she will still be standing there wagging and smiling. She is perfectly behaved when there is food on offer, but has selective hearing when you don't. She has always been like this, it seems that the more "loving" I am with her, the more she thinks she can do what she wants, the tougher I am, the better behaved she is. Strangely she is a dog that thrives on being patted. I can't figure her out.

This is interesting, Honey is also a rescue dog who I am told had no affection in her previous life and she is much the same. She is a beautifully tempered dog too.

After having a few issues arise, I have had to assess how I am treating her and I have started to get tougher on her.

Before I was happy to give as much affection as she demanded because I felt she needed it and because I do love her desperately.

It also became a subconscious thing, she would put her head under my hand and I would pat her.

I have only just realised this is a passive dominance thing that quite probably is the root of her protective issues. Der, I should know that . I was just blinded by how I was feeling and projecting that onto her.

The last few days I have enforced pats only on human terms, am demanding compliance and have been training a bit more and I can already see a change. She isnt bugging us as much for pats and is definitely more biddable. She is more relaxed too. I find it sad, because I loved spoiling her, but I can see that its much better for her in the long run.

She is not by nature a dominant dog so I imagine feeling she was on top was fairly stressful for her.

So Bub, I have to agree with those who have said its not the emotion but the boundaries etc that affect the dog's behaviour and happiness.

[Bubitty]

Her general behaviour is the same, rules are rules and Bitty plays by the rules in her own madcap way.

But her training has just improved so much with me just generally being more “gaga” over her.

Last night I was teaching her to take a hat off my head and I could see she was thinking and just trying to work out what mummy wanted and concentrating so hard! Normal Bitty would have given it a go but this Bitty was REALLY focused.

Maybe whatever it is we have just works for us!

[Ravyk]

I think dog can sense emotions of some kind...which is why they ALWAYS disappear when I'm thinking about doing their eardrops...

[dee lee]

Her general behaviour is the same, rules are rules and Bitty plays by the rules in her own madcap way.

But her training has just improved so much with me just generally being more “gaga” over her.

Last night I was teaching her to take a hat off my head and I could see she was thinking and just trying to work out what mummy wanted and concentrating so hard! Normal Bitty would have given it a go but this Bitty was REALLY focused.

Maybe whatever it is we have just works for us!

I'd say you have a great relationship with her because of the boundaries you have in place, she feels comfortable and safe and your extra affection is a great reward for her.

I think what the two of you have is Lovely. ;)

[Adza]

I think dog can sense emotions of some kind...which is why they ALWAYS disappear when I'm thinking about doing their eardrops...

I love that!

Tahli and I have built a strong relationship, she is so well behaved around me now and something has "clicked" like you say, it's all these little things you notice that is different from before.

I know exactly what you mean.

I think it happens once you have completely established yourself as the leader

[corvus]

It also became a subconscious thing, she would put her head under my hand and I would pat her.

I have only just realised this is a passive dominance thing that quite probably is the root of her protective issues.

Well, it's only passive dominance if non-confrontational ways of getting what you want when there is competition is passive dominance. I know some that view that strictly within the confines of learning theory, and I think it works for the most part. But then, nothing in behaviour really exists in isolation, so there are always going to be exceptions. When an animal has "rules" that dictate what is acceptable behaviour that gets them things they want and what is not acceptable behaviour that will get them nothing that they want, they do tend to be confident animals. They know how the game works. They don't have to worry about where their resources will come from and if they will have enough. They have simple ways to get what they want by deferring to you. If you establish a routine of deference (e.g. NILIF), it doesn't bother them at all to defer to you by rote and they will often use whatever methods of deference they have been taught as a default behaviour. The more it works the less they have to worry about.

Naturally, there are bound to be exceptions! ;)

On the original topic, someone sent me a very interesting paper recently that essentially quantifies what I've always called the little moments of magic in a relationship between a human and a dog. When you are both working together towards a common goal rather than pulling your own separate ways. The concept originally came from studying team work in team sports and how it affects how well the team is perceived to play. Anyway, what it comes down to is repeated patterns of behaviour that crop up time and time again when a dog is working together with a human on a specific task. It is all a bit mathematical and abstract, but interesting because those moments of magic aren't just in your head or emotional. They are in behaviour as well, but hard to detect. On a very basic level, it means that dogs respond to things that a human does in a predictable way.

I feel like that didn't tell anyone very much at all. It's a hard concept to describe! Basically, no, I don't think dogs know when they are especially loved, but I do think something special happens when both dog and human are working together towards a common goal.

[Staranais]

I feel like that didn't tell anyone very much at all. It's a hard concept to describe! Basically, no, I don't think dogs know when they are especially loved, but I do think something special happens when both dog and human are working together towards a common goal.

I know I have a new appreciation for my dog while training SAR/scentwork when I take the back seat (so to speak) and let her drive for a while.

[dee lee]

It also became a subconscious thing, she would put her head under my hand and I would pat her.

I have only just realised this is a passive dominance thing that quite probably is the root of her protective issues.

Well, it's only passive dominance if non-confrontational ways of getting what you want when there is competition is passive dominance.

Eh, I just term it as passive dominance because its a strong nudge under my hand and she knows that she can "make" me pat her. Well, DID know.

I'm a believer in the whole passive dominance idea. Not allowing it has made a big difference in behaviour to the dogs I have owned.

[poodlefan]

I think dogs can recognise our moods and to some degree our feelings.

However, I don't think dogs necessarily try hard to please because we love them. Developing an eagerness to please may be part genetic and part conditioning.

I can think of a few doted on dogs that are more likely to give their owners the finger than try to please them.

[corvus]

Eh, I just term it as passive dominance because its a strong nudge under my hand and she knows that she can "make" me pat her.

Sorry, correct use of the D word is a bugbear of mine. That is not to say that you were using it incorrectly, though. I don't think it's always easy to tell. "Resources" and "competition" can be quite specific to an individual, for example.

Anyway, for anyone who might be able to understand it:

Detection of temporal patterns in dog–human interaction

A.Kerepesib,∗,G.K.Jonssonc,d,A ́.Miklo ́sia,J.Topa ́lb, V. Csa ́nyi b, M.S. Magnusson c

a Department of Ethology, Eo ̈tvo ̈s University, Budapest, Hungary b Comparative Ethology Research Group, Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Budapest, Hungary c

Human Behaviour Laboratory, University of Iceland, Iceland d Department of Psychology, University of Aberdeen, UK

Received 20 July 2004; received in revised form 22 April 2005; accepted 30 April 2005

A new time structure model and pattern detection procedures developed by (Magnusson, M.S., 1996. Hidden real-time patterns in intra- and inter-individual behaviour description and detection. Eur. J. Psychol. Assess. 12, 112–123; Magnusson, M.S., 2000. Discovering hidden time patterns in behaviour: T-patterns and their detection. Behav. Res. Methods, Instrum. Comput. 32, 93–110) enables us to detect complex temporal patterns in behaviour. This method has been used successfully in studying human and neuronal interactions (Anolli, L., Duncan, S. Magnusson, M.S., Riva G. (Eds.), 2005. The Hidden Structure of Interaction, IOS Press, Amsterdam). We assume that similarly to interactions between humans, cooperative and communicative interaction between dogs and humans also consist of patterns in time. We coded and analyzed a cooperative situation when the owner instructs the dog to help build a tower and complete the task. In this situation, a cooperative interaction developed spontaneously, and occurrences of hidden time patterns in behaviour can be expected. We have found such complex temporal patterns (T-patterns) in each pair during the task that cannot be detected by “standard” behaviour analysis. During cooperative interactions the dogs’ and humans’ behaviour becomes organized into interactive temporal patterns and that dog–human interaction is much more regular than yet has been thought. We have found that communicative behaviour units and action units can be detected in the same T-pattern during cooperative interactions. Comparing the T-patterns detected in the dog–human dyads, we have found a typical sequence emerging during the task, which was the outline of the successfully completed task. Such temporal patterns were conspicuously missing from the “randomized data” that gives additional support to the claim that interactive T-patterns do not occur by chance or arbitrarily but play a functional role during the task.

Essentially, cooperative behaviour between two individuals towards a common goal takes on an organised and rhythmic structure. The assumption is when this occurs the cooperative behaviour is more successful, but it wasn't measured in this study. They were just looking for evidence of the temporal patterns in cooperating dog and human pairs.

[Bubitty]

So complicated!!!

I am going to go with her being an angel because I go around the house singing:

What are Bitties made of, made of

What are Bitties made of, made of

Sugar and spice, everything nice

Thats what Bitties are made of!

and the good vibes are zapping her!

[noisymina]

Sounds good to me!

[W Sibs]

So complicated!!!

I am going to go with her being an angel because I go around the house singing:

What are Bitties made of, made of

What are Bitties made of, made of

Sugar and spice, everything nice

Thats what Bitties are made of!

and the good vibes are zapping her!

cute

whatever works for you ;)

[corvus]

So complicated!!!

Seriously, it must be the most complicated applied animal behaviour paper I have ever read. My understanding of it is tenuous and I think you have to be a professional mathematician to really grasp what it's all about.

But, super interesting if there's anyone out there in dog forum land that can vaguely understand it. ;)