Puppy School And Obedience Training

[Max#1]

Today was our first day at Puppy School. Not formal obedience yet, but out in a field on leashes - as opposed to indoors - as puppy pre-school was. We do a lot of 'training' at home (we can do sit, drop, stand, shake, rollover, play dead, speak, stay to a degree, off... etc) - and its a lot of fun. I love that moment when you see the light go on - ah! that's what you want from me! (As a side note I do some 'instructing' in my job and also get the same pleasure from seeing that light of understanding go on in student's eyes - that I encourage them with 'yessssss' is my own private joke!).

Anyway, I was wondering what expectations we should have for training as our puppy grows up. Is there some kind of guidelines as to when they should know or be able to do certain things? I have read recently about puppy's not having good concentration spans and was curious about this. I know it will be breed dependent to some degree.

Also, when it comes to exercise - I've read comments on here, usually in reply to someone else's comment, that a certain amount of exercise is too much for a puppy. How much is too much? (Okay my puppy, while a mixed breed, does appear to have border collie in him so....).

Any sort of general advice - or pointers in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!

[Rusky]

socialise socialise socialise is my advice, kids, dogs, people, old people, shops, drive through, parks, buses, trucks, bikes, prams, pavements, grass, everything and anything you can think of. If I posted everything I would go on all day. Take your puppy with you now everywhere you will expect him to go with you in the future, beach, river etc.

You can hold him if he isn't vaccinated.

and sounds like you are having fun teaching tricks and focus and attention

[wuffles]

How old is your puppy?

My girl is now 9 months and a working breed, she has been through puppy preschool and we are now in the third level of obedience at dog club. My advice would be not to expect anything at a really young age, then you will be pleasantly surprised when they do something good Just enjoy them being a puppy. Do tricks and obedience with them if you enjoy it, but keep it fun and exciting! Play lots of games like tug, fetch and with toys. The typical one hour obedience classes generally aren't ideal for dogs and it places a pretty unrealistic expectation on them to concentrate for that long. You will miss their puppiness, their lack of concentration, their sheer excitement in new situations, their fluffy fur, the way they pounce on toys... they grow up very fast! :p

I started expecting more from my puppy probably around 6 months, that is, I expected her to be able to sit still for longer, learn some more complex tricks, and refine some of the behaviours I'd taught. Even then, if she sat still in class for 30 seconds in class without trying to wander off or play with the dog next to her, I was very happy! At 9 months it is really coming together and she is maturing in the way she learns and does obedience. Even then, I know she is still young and making her want to work with me is MY job, not hers. I am having a lot of fun learning along with her.

Some good general advice on how much on-lead exercise for a medium sized puppy is 5 minutes per month of age. Some people prefer less and some more.

Edited to add: Just thought I'd mention that we've been with some puppies from beginners class up to where we are now and there is a HUGE difference between dogs. They are all individuals! Some learn quickly, others slower. Some are very precise with what they learn, some are just excited to be there. Also be prepared for weeks when the puppy just doesn't want to do anything at all! :p

Edited September 5, 2010 by wuffles

[koalathebear]

Max #1: I have absolutely nothing useful to add except to say that I adore your avatar of Max there - very stylish. Looks like a moment from a Wong Kar Wai movie - if he made movies with dogs :p )

ETA: I agree with wuffles - you will see a wide range of skills, levels and personalities in just one class. Some dogs are very calm and placid but will not sit or drop for anything. It's a funny sight to see 2-3 adults trying to get a dog to drop :p As wuffles also said, there are some days when your dog seems to have the devil in him/her and he/she just will not behave ... I've met so many people at Dog School who at one time or another have said that they considered just going home because their dog was so distracted. We've had it happen a couple of times

Edited September 5, 2010 by koalathebear

[Max#1]

Puppy pre-school was a piece of cake in comparison to puppy school. I can see that standing around for an hour (in this case, ankle deep in mud - there was one puppy so small he was nearly having to swim through the puddles - adorable!) - is going to be a feat. For my concentration as well as Max's! I do find, in general, if he's on lead and we're not doing anything he's pretty relaxed though (ps this is a nature not nurture trait that he just seems to have). He'll just lie down at my feet - though today I think he was trying to sneak over to the dog next to us by moving ever so slowly on his tummy, then stretching out on his side - and giving her the 'eye' to tempt her to play with him!

Can I ask - what does ETA stand for? I've been able to figure out most of the abbreviations but this one still has me.

As for exercise - we do a bit more than 5 min x his age. He's 4.5 months, and he can easily walk (gently ie a wandering stroll) for an hour - and from what I've read this is far too much! We are very lucky to have some very nice dogs at our local park that he can run with. I'm sure their owners, however, think I keep him locked in a box all day from the amount of running he can do. I'm noticing that as he gets older his stamina is increasing. Signs of things to come I'm sure!

Koalathebear - notice the ears in the photo? Let's just say its been a very dark and gloomy winter for an autumn-born puppy and the sunbeams coming through the window give him all sorts of excitement and pleasure! He loves to watch, speak to, and then try to catch the dust particles flying around. (Meanwhile my tech-savvyness is pretty awful when I finally put together than Avatar is Avatar, and not some reference to *that* movie!).

[Esky the husky]

ETA= edited to add

(I think )

[Max#1]

Ah thanks Esky! It all makes sense now!

As an afterthought - we have experienced 'the other side' of our dog's personality! This happened when he was teething. For a run of two days, then more recently three days - he was completely uncooperative and completely naughty!!!! Luckily, I referred to this forum, and soon realised what was going on (the blood smear on his favourite chew toy was another clue!).

[Gayle.]

At the obedience club I attend, each level has it's own exercises and they get more complex as you graduate up through the levels.

Puppy class is mostly about socialisation and behaving nicely on leash. They are supposed to learn to walk on a loose leash, sit on command, a right about turn and the beginnings of a stand and a sit stay. They stay in puppies until 6 months unless they compete in a graduation day.....they are run like a proper trial.....and get a pass card.

The next level is beginners, and that builds on the loose leash walking, sit and stand on command, and sit stays.

Then they go to class one, which is building on the above with drop, stand stays, right and left about turns, sit on halt with no voice command and 1 minute sit and drop stays.

My little man graduated from puppies at age 4 months and is currently in beginners but we mostly go for the socialisation as I'm not fond of the current instructors methods, so we do most of our real training at home.

I find it very valuable in not only socialising the puppy, but also talking to others who have a dog or three at the centre of their world. It's also good for learning how to act around other peoples dogs and learning manners in the dog world for both puppy and handler. Plus ours has some great social days which always involve the dogs.

And it can be a leg up into trialling if that's where you want to go.

[Max#1]

That is kind of what I'm interested to find out about - thanks Gayle. If I can admit, I felt a bit disappointed after our first class because I was worried that the whole series of classes might end up not being challenging enough. I'm sure my puppy has a lot of potential - what I have to remember is that its me that's holding him back - I've never seriously trained (such a smart!) dog before. And its these classes where I will probably be learning the most (and my OH!).

The manners is also important, and is something I'm clueless about. A lot has changed since we owned dogs as children I think.

[koalathebear]

If I can admit, I felt a bit disappointed after our first class because I was worried that the whole series of classes might end up not being challenging enough. I'm sure my puppy has a lot of potential - what I have to remember is that its me that's holding him back - I've never seriously trained (such a smart!) dog before. And its these classes where I will probably be learning the most (and my OH!).

The manners is also important, and is something I'm clueless about. A lot has changed since we owned dogs as children I think.

First, I can't wait to see more photos of Max - he looks like a very nice-looking dog.

Secondly, I guess you might want to manage your expectations about classes going forward When we went to our first obedience class at dog school I was a bit shocked that we were learning really basic things like sit, drop, stay etc. I was even more horrified when I learned that the next level up (bronze) was pretty much the same stuff all over again - I thought that the dog and us were going to go crazy with boredom.

It turns out that even though the content is notionally the same - the level of difficulty expected will vary depending on the class. Also, things that are really easy at home can be quite challenging at Dog School when there are so many smells, sounds, dogs and people. For instance, one week the most placid dog in our class was freaked out by a combination of other dogs and cherry picker in the background. While Elbie does a stay perfectly at home, at Dog School he might accidentally break his stay because the person next to us releases HER dog and he gets confused etc Or, in the middle of his sit, the friendly GSD next to him decides she wants to slobber on him.

So thus far, I've not been bored at Dog School at all. In beginner obedience, we didn't do assessment and the expectations of the puppies was pretty low. In bronze, they expect 30 second stays, more discipline when waiting for food, longer distance for 'go to your mat' that sort of thing. There's also weave work and little obstacle courses. You also stand next to different dogs and learn which dogs distract your dog more. In our class we have a little girl who accompanies her mother and we call her the pink ninja because her favourite thing is leaping out of nowhere and trying to distract Elbie during class - we actually think that's great because it helps us to get focus.

So in terms of 'technical' stuff, chances are you can get all of that off the internet and books - way more than can be taught in a class setting but I don't think there's any substitute for going to classes. We've also been really lucky that for beginner and bronze we've had good instructors who are really kind to our dog.

I have to admit that I didn't love puppy classes but I do really enjoy our obedience classes at dog school. They always tell us that obedience classes aren't about training the dog - it's about training us as owners to train our dogs. I have noticed some people that are disappointed in themselves and their dogs because they bring their dog to class once a week but don't do anything else in terms of training during the week - that's setting both up for unhappiness during class because the dog can't deliver and the owner is frustrated. So like all things, obedience classes are all about what you bring to them

Edited September 5, 2010 by koalathebear

[Genabee]

We did puppy school at a private school, with three other puppies and I loved it. I loved the firm but fair approach to the pups and the exercises were practical and I could see how they would work in with my routine at home. And it was very helpful for all the questions and behavioural issues I was experiencing at the time. Genevieve was the youngest (8 weeks to the day when we started) and the smallest in the class, which I am glad we started so young!

When I started obedience at a club, a bit like KTB, I was a bit disappointed on the first class. We were in the Beginners class, with a lot of other dogs, who I later worked out had not done puppy school, so had no idea of basic commands. Here I was with this super excited 16 week old puppy, who thought she was at a party with all these other dogs!!!! Genevieve under normal circumstances, does what is asked of her. But she has been known to get distracted by the other dogs and will come running to any other name!

After a couple of weeks we have graduated to the Bronze class. Again like KTB, I am finding this similar exercises but more is expected of them. I have also found she has responded well to the jump in level, as she is generally surrounded by other dogs who are behaving!!! The Beginners class frustrated me somewhat as the other dogs around were doing their own thing and a lot of the owners didn't know that they were doing.

As someone pointed out earlier, the socialisation is just as important as the actual obedience. This is a large part of why I started it with her. There are some weeks when she is really focussed and there are other weeks when she just wants to run around like a crazy thing!! I have just accepted that now! Hopefully as she matures, she will have less crazy weeks and more focussed ones!

It sounds like you are doing a great job with Max! Keep it up and I am sure you will have a great friend for life!

[Max#1]

Thanks KTB - that is reassuring. And Wizzle its nice to know other people have similar experiences.

The 'running to any other name' - and the breaking the stay because of the lady next door - made me laugh. Max is the kind of dog, if the lady next to us is asking her dog to sit - he'll sit for her and wag his tail, though a metre behind her dog - then get frustrated he isn't getting rewarded! At puppy pre-school it used to have me in hysterics. The lady even had her back to us and he was dropping for her (and throwing in a few rollovers for good measure - a terror for preempting!). Mind you she had some very tasty frankfurters!

My OH called puppy pre-school 'clown school' - because often Max would come home more badly behaved then he was going in! If there was a barker or a biter there - then look out! This time he spent most of the class watching the group behind us doing stays (I think!) very quietly and soberly - so he might have gotten a better impression......!

As well as your experiences, you guys have given me some good tips to what to expect - for example, long stays (30 seconds is a long time, I just checked), obedience despite distractions etc. I think we've still got a lot of work to do!

[Gayle.]

At our most recent club graduation, I entered our girl Dusty in the class one trial. I'd been training her at home and she really hadn't had any class time for over a year as her handler....my teenage daughter....lost interest in dog obedience. Dusty works better for me anyway. She did great in the ring, and did some beautiful heelwork and was very sharp on the commands.

Then came to the group stays....the undoing of many a good dog.

She sat nicely and stayed. The greyhound next to her broke and the young handler danced around saying "Mia, STAY....MIA STAY....STAY, Mia, Mia SIT..." the whole time he was huffing and shuffling and stepping towards his dog then stepping back and I kept wishing the judge would tell him to stand still and shut the hell up because every other dog in the lineup was getting antsy and shuffly. But my girl held her stay, thank goodness.

Then the exact same thing happened in the drop stays...the greyhound broke immediately and the kid talked and jumped and leaped around and made her drop again and by the end of it I wanted to wring his little neck.

But Dusty didn't break and she not only passed, but won the class.

And that is the sort of experience you will never get by training in a backyard. The distractions in a class are far more valuable than any fancy tricks you can teach at home and it's definitely worth sticking it out just for that.