Allergy Treatment - The Next Step

[RallyValley]

I have been kind of neglecting Toby this week because I have been preoccupied with Lilly ( :D )but I noticed today that his feet are basically stripped of hair and bright red and his whole body is kind of dandruffy. Toby gets antihistamines every day as well as fish oil. He hasn't had any recent diet changes (Nutro with raw meat and or bones) except that yesterday mum gave him milk!

Anyway I have a few questions regarding allergies;

1. Do allergies get worse with age?

2. Can you wash a dog in Malaseb too often?

3. What is the next step in pursuing treatment?

Also until I noticed this dandruff his allergies have really been only on his feet and tummy. An elimination diet and adding in foods that we did last year had no effect for the better or worse. So I just assumed it was a contact allergy, but obviously this all over flaking and itching is the result of a food allergy right?

[stormie]

I have been kind of neglecting Toby this week because I have been preoccupied with Lilly ( :D )but I noticed today that his feet are basically stripped of hair and bright red and his whole body is kind of dandruffy. Toby gets antihistamines every day as well as fish oil. He hasn't had any recent diet changes (Nutro with raw meat and or bones) except that yesterday mum gave him milk!

Anyway I have a few questions regarding allergies;

1. Do allergies get worse with age? Yes - an atopic dog will generally only get worse with age.

2. Can you wash a dog in Malaseb too often? - You wouldn't really want to do it anymore than twice a week for maintenance. I find it quite drying and makes my allergic boy itchier.

3. What is the next step in pursuing treatment? - If you've ruled out parasites, bacterial/fungal infections and done a food elimination diet, the next step would likely be allergy testing. I'd recommend seeing a Dermatologist.

Also until I noticed this dandruff his allergies have really been only on his feet and tummy. An elimination diet and adding in foods that we did last year had no effect for the better or worse. So I just assumed it was a contact allergy, but obviously this all over flaking and itching is the result of a food allergy right? Not necessarily. Food allergies are the least common of all allergies. Environmental are the most common - i.e hayfever for dogs. They can be allergic to pollens, dust, dust mites etc etc. We are coming into spring now and many plants have started flowering so there is a much higher amount of pollens around. The original feet and tummy is very common with a contact problem but if he's itchy all over, either he's rolled in a plant/grass or he's actually suffering general atopy.

[RallyValley]

Thanks for getting back so quickly Stormie. I feel so badly for the poor mite and he will be going to the vets sometime this week or next to rule out any other possible cause. Then the immunologist is the next step I guess.

[stormie]

Thanks for getting back so quickly Stormie. I feel so badly for the poor mite and he will be going to the vets sometime this week or next to rule out any other possible cause. Then the immunologist is the next step I guess.

Seeing he's become worse, it may not be a bad idea to do another food elimination diet. Allergic dogs can be allergic to many things. or example Orbit has allergies to the environment and food and whilst I can't control the environmental ones, I can control the food. By keeping that part under control, it keeps his itching down just a little bit more.

As they age, they can develop allergies to more and more things.

Many don't have a huge success with immunotherapy but many also have - not a complete cure, but enough to bring the itching back to a more tolerable level which can be managed much easier.

At the end of the day though, IMO, it comes down to quality of life. Sometimes the only thing that will provide ultimate relief is cortisone and many 'poo poo' using it due to possible side effects. But if the alternative is an unhappy, uncomfortable dog, I know which I chose!

Another thing to consider, is that skin is an organ. So like any other organ in the body, if it's constantly inflamed and infected, you can eventually see more severe problems which can, believe it or not, be fatal. Obviously this is in extreme cases, but again, is a reason why drugs like cortisone can actually be really helpful for some animals.

[ashka1]

Hi ValleyCBR,

I have had a huge problem with one of my dogs for 5 years.Dandruf, coat falling out, balding flanks and chest,dull greyish coat where there was some. He is A newf, No foods seemed to releave the problem. You name it we have tried it!!!About 1 month ago I was asked to try Advance Tuna and Rice. Not a fan of Advance at all but as the offer included 3 free bags, I decided to give it a go after seeing another dog improve dramatically. The theory is that all protien is removed bar fish is removed from the diet and some dairy, (youghrt)

So I feed Advance Tuna, a tin of sardines in oil, 2 zinc tablets, and 1 tspn of Derma-Ionx , this is a liquid that you can get online, This dog hs never looked so good! I m amazed as I was very sceptical but have been very strict with his diet, I found some dried ocean perch treats so he still gets some goodies, feed him seperately so he cant get other dogs food.

He is bathed weekly in Malaseb but after this you must rinse through with warm water and an oil like Kerri Oil or Seabreeze or the skin be comes dryer and irritated. I now, after only 4 weeks have shiny lack coated dog who is growing hair on his bald bits! He is not itchy and has lost that yeasty smell! I am not sure what is working here but this is the second dog I have seen this work on in the last 2 months.

Could be worth a try for you too.

good luck

[RallyValley]

Thanks for the replies Stormie and Ashka.

Would turkey or fish be ok for elimination diet?

Ashka the tip about oil after Malaseb sounds helpful. His coat is actually quite shiny and not falling out at all, I bathe him once a fortnight but I should probably up that.

[stormie]

Thanks for the replies Stormie and Ashka.

Would turkey or fish be ok for elimination diet?

Only is these are proteins he's never eaten before. You mentioned he gets fish oil so that pretty much rules out fish.

What about roo?

Alpha Kerri Oil is great - lots of dermatologists recommend it as it helps to create a bit of a skin barrier, reducing the amounts of antigens absorbed.

[ashka1]

I would use fish over turkey , suposedly many dogs have poultry allergies?

[RallyValley]

Thanks for the replies Stormie and Ashka.

Would turkey or fish be ok for elimination diet?

Only is these are proteins he's never eaten before. You mentioned he gets fish oil so that pretty much rules out fish.

What about roo?

Alpha Kerri Oil is great - lots of dermatologists recommend it as it helps to create a bit of a skin barrier, reducing the amounts of antigens absorbed.

We did roo last time does that rule it out this time?

[Mas1981]

Hi Hannah,

I would phone up and make an appointment with Dr Mandy Burrows the dermatologist from Murdoch, they are also at Perth Specialist vet Centre on a friday in Osborne park which is way closer for you. I would have never ever have said that Mason has food allergies but doing the elim diet for 6 weeks and now sequential diet changes we have found that he is allergic to chicken, beef, rice and Vets all Natural Complete mix. I believe contact allergies are very rare and it more common for them to be atopic, Mason results came back that he is allergic to most plant,weed and tree pollens , dust mites, storage mites and fleas.

BTW i would not use the Malaseb, I have been told to use QV wash and then spray with diluted QV oil ( i do the oil daily at the moment as Mason has very very dry skin ), we also use the Duoxo pipettes which you can only get from the derm .

[RallyValley]

Hi Hannah,

I would phone up and make an appointment with Dr Mandy Burrows the dermatologist from Murdoch, they are also at Perth Specialist vet Centre on a friday in Osborne park which is way closer for you. I would have never ever have said that Mason has food allergies but doing the elim diet for 6 weeks and now sequential diet changes we have found that he is allergic to chicken, beef, rice and Vets all Natural Complete mix. I believe contact allergies are very rare and it more common for them to be atopic, Mason results came back that he is allergic to most plant,weed and tree pollens , dust mites, storage mites and fleas.

BTW i would not use the Malaseb, I have been told to use QV wash and then spray with diluted QV oil ( i do the oil daily at the moment as Mason has very very dry skin ), we also use the Duoxo pipettes which you can only get from the derm .

I am pretty sure I need a referral for insurance purposes right?

[stormie]

If you've used roo before, don't use it again. You need to feed a meat that Toby has never eaten before.

To see any specialist you'll need a referral but your vet should be able to do this at your request.

[RallyValley]

If you've used roo before, don't use it again. You need to feed a meat that Toby has never eaten before.

To see any specialist you'll need a referral but your vet should be able to do this at your request.

Toby has had:

beef

fish

turkey

lamb

chicken

roo

pork

what else is there?

[raffikki]

Hi valleyCBR

My guys are on an elimination diet, I use Hills z/d Ultra dry food & venison for training treats.

For fresh meat you also have goat, rabbit, emu, venison & camel.

[sas]

If you've used roo before, don't use it again. You need to feed a meat that Toby has never eaten before.

To see any specialist you'll need a referral but your vet should be able to do this at your request.

Toby has had:

beef

fish

turkey

lamb

chicken

roo

pork

what else is there?

Goat We used Goat at one point. We have quite a large Muslim community here and can get a whole Goat (butchered) for about $70, alot of places sell it for between $6-9 a kilo diced with some bone in it - I think they use it for Soup?

Then you have all your Game meats, it's amazing what you can find when you start looking ;)

[Mas1981]

Hi Hannah,

I would phone up and make an appointment with Dr Mandy Burrows the dermatologist from Murdoch, they are also at Perth Specialist vet Centre on a friday in Osborne park which is way closer for you. I would have never ever have said that Mason has food allergies but doing the elim diet for 6 weeks and now sequential diet changes we have found that he is allergic to chicken, beef, rice and Vets all Natural Complete mix. I believe contact allergies are very rare and it more common for them to be atopic, Mason results came back that he is allergic to most plant,weed and tree pollens , dust mites, storage mites and fleas.

BTW i would not use the Malaseb, I have been told to use QV wash and then spray with diluted QV oil ( i do the oil daily at the moment as Mason has very very dry skin ), we also use the Duoxo pipettes which you can only get from the derm .

I am pretty sure I need a referral for insurance purposes right?

Yes for the insurance you need a referral but they do see dogs without a referral if you dont need the referral for insurance, if your vet is hesitant to give you one I would go and see my vet, he was more than happy to refer us

[ESCS]

QV wash and fragrance free Alpha Keri oil has made a significant difference with our dog as well. We have also changed his food to Pro Plan salmon and rice with some tin sardines (a couple of times a week) and kept him off chicken. He is a different dog these days. He has a shiny thick coat now that he isn't scratching it all off. Our dog's allergy is an environmental one but keeping him off certain foods seem to help reduce the itching. He is also on Atopica and very occassionally a course of cortisone if he has a break out.

[Lab_Rat]

Hey Valley!! Sorry about your poor Toby! Do you live near pine trees or wattles??? Both are flowering now and they are notorious for allergies!

If you go down the diet road, please be careful with using camel meat. My vet informed me there have been some poisonings from using camel. Something they eat in the wild which is obviously not toxic to them, remains in either the meat or fat and affects dogs!!

I hope you find the causes of his allergies!

[RallyValley]

Hey Valley!! Sorry about your poor Toby! Do you live near pine trees or wattles??? Both are flowering now and they are notorious for allergies!

If you go down the diet road, please be careful with using camel meat. My vet informed me there have been some poisonings from using camel. Something they eat in the wild which is obviously not toxic to them, remains in either the meat or fat and affects dogs!!

I hope you find the causes of his allergies!

There is a huge wattle tree next door (and Toby often goes next door to play) and there are pine trees nearby (like within walking distance but not on our property)

I will visit the vet during the week and get the referral to the specialist. I have also found this place: http://www.petcustomdiets.com.au/index.html that make prepackaged elimination diets and will work with vets and you to slowly add into the diet. AND it is stocked at my local better pets and gardens

I am testing a new meat to see if Toby will eat it tomorrow. If he will I will be starting elimination diet again.