Police Dog Bites Boy, 8, During Search Of House

[lanabanana]

I dont think it's the dogs fault as he was doingwhat he was meant to do.

I dont think it is th eboys fault.

However, I do think more care should have been taken by the police before sending un unrestraned police dog into a house where children live and could have been present.

I dont think police dogs shoudl be "let off" though just because they are trained to do that stuff. It shoudl be looked at on a case by case basis. Recently, a police dog was at a kindy giving a talk with the officer and the dog bit a child whilst there (this is in NZ). IMO, that is not acceptable. It wasn't out doing a search or attack or whatever.

[siks3]

Lets see startled dog kid got injured sounds like the dog needs to retire.

Sounds like a fear bite and working dogs should not bite out of fear no questions about that.

After years of work sounds like his temperament has been flawed in some way.

The dog should not have acted in that way just because a child came into the room no matter how much noise it was making.

But in saying that we have only been given one side of the story.

[ash&elar]

I cant believe how many idiots are commenting on that story that the dog is "dangerous" and therefore should be put down.

It's a POLICE DOG!!!! Of course it's dangerous FFS. Which is completely different to a domestic dog who savages people indiscriminately. The dog didn't savage the kid - he just grabbed his leg and held him - exactly as he's been trained to do. No loss of control or aggression here.

If they put that dog down they might as well destroy all police dogs. All of them would have done the same thing.

my thoughts exactly

[gsdog2]

Lets see startled dog kid got injured sounds like the dog needs to retire.

Sounds like a fear bite and working dogs should not bite out of fear no questions about that.

After years of work sounds like his temperament has been flawed in some way.

The dog should not have acted in that way just because a child came into the room no matter how much noise it was making.

But in saying that we have only been given one side of the story.

'Startled' - really? I live in the same city this attack happened and I haven't read anywhere that the dog was startled. It was working! Why would you say 'fear bite'??? Come on people - we're not talking about someones backyard pet here, it's a 'working' dog. If anything, as Staranais said, the police should have had a guard posted at the door.

Edited September 20, 2010 by gsdog2

[Staranais]

'Startled' - really? I live in the same city this attack happened and I haven't read anywhere that the dog was startled. It was working! Why would you say 'fear bite'??? Come on people - we're not talking about someones backyard pet here, it's a 'working' dog. If anything, as Staranais said, the police should have had a guard posted at the door.

Yes, I don't see how anyone could conclude it was a fear bite either. Dog is sent into area to find and bite a person - dog finds a person and bites them - how is the dog to know that the kid is the "wrong" person?

[siks3]

Lets see startled dog kid got injured sounds like the dog needs to retire.

Sounds like a fear bite and working dogs should not bite out of fear no questions about that.

After years of work sounds like his temperament has been flawed in some way.

The dog should not have acted in that way just because a child came into the room no matter how much noise it was making.

But in saying that we have only been given one side of the story.

'Startled' - really? I live in the same city this attack happened and I haven't read anywhere that the dog was startled. It was working! Why would you say 'fear bite'??? Come on people - we're not talking about someones backyard pet here, it's a 'working' dog. If anything, as Staranais said, the police should have had a guard posted at the door.

Copied and pasted from the article.

As David ran inside calling out to his mother, the startled german shepherd latched on to his leg, biting it "to the bone

Still sounds like a fear bite to me the kid was not attacking the officer so it should not have reacted.

Or maybe It's the handlers fault the dog should only be aggressive when the handler wants it to.

[gsdog2]

Lets see startled dog kid got injured sounds like the dog needs to retire.

Sounds like a fear bite and working dogs should not bite out of fear no questions about that.

After years of work sounds like his temperament has been flawed in some way.

The dog should not have acted in that way just because a child came into the room no matter how much noise it was making.

But in saying that we have only been given one side of the story.

'Startled' - really? I live in the same city this attack happened and I haven't read anywhere that the dog was startled. It was working! Why would you say 'fear bite'??? Come on people - we're not talking about someones backyard pet here, it's a 'working' dog. If anything, as Staranais said, the police should have had a guard posted at the door.

Copied and pasted from the article.

As David ran inside calling out to his mother, the startled german shepherd latched on to his leg, biting it "to the bone

Still sounds like a fear bite to me the kid was not attacking the officer so it should not have reacted.

Or maybe It's the handlers fault the dog should only be aggressive when the handler wants it to.

That's a 'description' from a journalist (in their words) - not a quote from police or witnesses. It's called sensationalism

Edited September 20, 2010 by gsdog2

[Staranais]

Copied and pasted from the article.

As David ran inside calling out to his mother, the startled german shepherd latched on to his leg, biting it "to the bone

Still sounds like a fear bite to me the kid was not attacking the officer so it should not have reacted.

Or maybe It's the handlers fault the dog should only be aggressive when the handler wants it to.

Don't agree, sorry. The journo wasn't there, didn't see the incident, and may have no knowledge of dog training or working dogs, so s/he would have no idea if the dog was surprised or startled when he bit the child or simply very predatory and aroused.

I would be very surprised if a dog that had passed all the temperament & manwork requirements to become a police dog had such poor nerves it could be scared by a child. They're pretty rigorous with what they'll accept & what gets washed out.

[Ravyk]

Sik3 do you have any idea what you are talking about? Pure GSDs used in the police force must pass all kinds of tests, including a gunshot test where they are not to show fear or startled behaviour (its also a requirement for passing breed surveys in GSD clubs). Its to test soundness of mind and temprement I think?

A police dog isn't going to be startled by a child, but when it is working they are trained to protect themselves/their handlers from possible attacks. A police dog can't tell that a child running around isn't a threat, as we can tell that it is not. They cannot rationalise that a child isn't a threat running at them but an adult could be. The dog did exactly what it was trained to do. It saw something that it percieved as a threat and acted accordingly. Unfortunately it was a child that bore the brunt of the attack.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Ravyk

[kateshep]

A police dog can't tell that a child running around isn't a threat, as we can tell that it is not. They cannot rationalise that a child isn't a threat running at them but an adult could be. The dog did exactly what it was trained to do. It saw something that it percieved as a threat and acted accordingly. Unfortunately it was a child that bore the brunt of the attack.

Sorry I disagree. Though I don't believe the dog should be put down nor that we know the whole story of the incident, I do have to question the strength of nerve and clarity in a working dog that would see a child as a threat.

Edited September 20, 2010 by kateshep

[Ravyk]

A police dog can't tell that a child running around isn't a threat, as we can tell that it is not. They cannot rationalise that a child isn't a threat running at them but an adult could be. The dog did exactly what it was trained to do. It saw something that it percieved as a threat and acted accordingly. Unfortunately it was a child that bore the brunt of the attack.

Sorry I disagree. Though I don't believe the dog should be put down nor that we know the whole story of the incident, I do have to question the strength of nerve and clarity in a working dog that would see a child as a threat.

I don't think it's a case that it just saw the child as a threat, but more the way the child acted as a threat. The article states the boy ran into the house calling to his mother.

The erratics of a child running around can come across very threatening to ANY dog. Think about it, what would come across more threatening to a dog, a calmly walking adult or a child running around, skipping, chattering, yelling, playing, etc? They are unpredictable doing what all kids do [which is play].

My partner was almost attacked by a police dog. He was crossing an oval at night and the dog squad were out tracking an offender. He was bailed up by the dog and he did the sensible thing of freezing and letting the officer deal with the dog. The officer told him after that he'd done the right thing, if OH had decided to run from the dog, he's have definitely have got bitten or worse.

So it is quite possible the dog thought the boy was a threat or an offender running away. They are trained to take down offenders running away from them.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Ravyk

[Staranais]

A police dog can't tell that a child running around isn't a threat, as we can tell that it is not. They cannot rationalise that a child isn't a threat running at them but an adult could be. The dog did exactly what it was trained to do. It saw something that it percieved as a threat and acted accordingly. Unfortunately it was a child that bore the brunt of the attack.

Sorry I disagree. Though I don't believe the dog should be put down nor that we know the whole story of the incident, I do have to question the strength of nerve and clarity in a working dog that would see a child as a threat.

I very much doubt the dog saw the child as a threat. I rather suspect the dog was have been sent into the area by the police officer to find and bite a person - he finds a person and bites them - he's done his job! That's not fear or the dog feeling "threatened", at most, it's a dog that hasn't been trained to distinguish between children and adults.

I'm not even sure if the police actively teach manwork dogs to distinguish between adults and children & to never bite children, since I suppose there may conceivably be rare sad circumstances in which a bite on a child may be necessary - children with weapons, bombs or such like.

[siks3]

A police dog can't tell that a child running around isn't a threat, as we can tell that it is not. They cannot rationalise that a child isn't a threat running at them but an adult could be. The dog did exactly what it was trained to do. It saw something that it percieved as a threat and acted accordingly. Unfortunately it was a child that bore the brunt of the attack.

Sorry I disagree. Though I don't believe the dog should be put down nor that we know the whole story of the incident, I do have to question the strength of nerve and clarity in a working dog that would see a child as a threat.

Exactly you have it there. The dogs nerve is most surely in question.

[nynka]

From the initial report, the only mention of the dog being punished for doing his job, is the parent of the child saying " I dont think the dog should be PTS because of this". That is based on their presumption that that would be the outcome of the dogs actions on the job.

Who, that is in a position of authority or knowledge of the outcome, has actually said there is a possibility this is the outcome of this situation?

There is no official statement in this regard. Most of the contributions to this topic are by people jumping to conclusions based on the word of a person who's house was being searched by police and police dogs, being quoted by the media and reported in a paper. Lot's of room for error there. This is how mis-information occurs, it's just a beat up story by the media. You see they raise interest in their story from many perspectives, I'm sure the dog and child will be fine.

Edited September 21, 2010 by nynka

[kateshep]

I very much doubt the dog saw the child as a threat. I rather suspect the dog was have been sent into the area by the police officer to find and bite a person - he finds a person and bites them - he's done his job! That's not fear or the dog feeling "threatened", at most, it's a dog that hasn't been trained to distinguish between children and adults.

They aren't junk yard dogs who bite randomly out of fear and instability. Provided the dog was socialised as a pup (often are in working dogs -to a range of different environments and people) then sorry but I still disagree and would say it would be the dog's temperament that caused a reaction like that to a child not because he is trained to.

[Staranais]

Provided the dog was socialised as a pup (often are in working dogs -to a range of different environments and people) then sorry but I still disagree and would say it would be the dog's temperament that caused a reaction like that to a child not because he is trained to.

What do you base your opinion on? Do you believe that police dogs are trained to only bite people they perceive as a threat? This is not my understanding of the training. My understanding is that the dog can be commanded to enter an area to find & guard and/or bite someone. The dog isn't expected to decide whether the person they are sent to bite is a threat and to refuse to bite someone who seems nice - deciding who to bite is the handler's job. Otherwise what happens if there is a genuine threat, but the dog doesn't believe that the person is threatening - you don't want the dog refusing to bite!

If the dog had been taught only to bite people who were scary and it bit the child, or if the owner had told the dog not to bite and it still bit the child, then those would be issues I agree.

[aussielover]

Kateshep, what is your experience exactly with police dogs?

I was also under the impression that an off leash police dog sent into a situation was there for one purspose- to disable (and that would most likely involve biting) any person in that area.

I think the dogs temperament was perfectly suitable for its line of work.

[kateshep]

A dog falls back on its genetics what it hasn't been conditioned/trained to already do. PD's aren't trained to bite kids, are they ? children act very differently to adults, dogs know they aren't the same- it doesn't follow that the dogs are able to generalise like that- but hey most of these type of discussions are speculation( for any newbies on the forum) unless aussielover & staranais also have experience in this area they haven't mentioned ? -my girl's uncle is a retiring PD in QLD who his handler describes as stable, next time I speak to his handler I will ask him about this topic.

Edited September 21, 2010 by kateshep

[Staranais]

-my girl's uncle is a retiring PD in QLD who his handler describes as stable, next time I speak to his handler I will ask him about this topic.

Yes, do - I would be genuinely interested to know if his dog (and other police dogs) would engage a child if ordered to do so while working, or if they would refuse the command due to not regarding the child as a threat.

ETA and if the answer is that the dog would refuse the command, then I'd be interested to learn if they specifically train that behaviour, or if they just rely on the dog not thinking to bite a child since it has only ever been agitated by an adult decoy?

Edited September 21, 2010 by Staranais

[zoepuppy]

do we know what happened to the dog in the end? how do we find out?