Multigeneration Labradoodle?

[shellbyville]

This is only slightly off the topic, but I just came home from the vets with one of my labs. There was a girl in there with a little lab puppy (I asked her was it a lab, as it was quite small and a bit snipey nosed, so wasn't sure if it was purebred or not.) She assured me it was a purebred lab. I asked was it registered, she didn't actually know what that meant, but no it isn't. I asked her if she would mind telling me how much she paid for the little guy. $600 and then she went on to tell me she bought him to mate with her other black lab she has at home!!!

I am a registered breeder of labs and I sell my puppies for not much more than what she paid for her little guy! I health test my labs, hips/elbows, eyes, DNA test for PRA etc and sell them with a comprehensive puppy pack (food, bowl, collar, lead, toys, Pedigree certificate, Vacc/microchipped, Copies of all health testing, a lifelong interest in the pup and more!)

This is what I have a problem with...people cashing in on indiscrimate breeding of my beloved breed. I live in a small town and there are about 5 people that I know of who breed labs (unregistered) one of them lives not far from me.

I don't really agree with the lab/poodle cross but I would prefer someone buy a labradoodle from a reputable breeder that cares about the health of their dogs and pups, doing health testing, than these indiscrimate so called breeders.

[toy dog]

If it wasn't a labradoodle but some other kind of xbreed that didn't include oodle in it which was working on breed development would there be the same kind of backlash here?

I know the cooli is further developed than the labradoodle but why doesn't create the same kind of outcry here?

If people had a purpose more then cash then fine. There are always breeds in development but the breeders dont make outragous claims. How can every memeber of a breed in development be 'perfect'. They cant. The oodle people are more then happy to charge through the nose for these dogs and yet they have no clear outcome in sight for what the breed is meant to be. They want to create a fluffy pet. OK ... err ... planning fail there?

Coolies are not being sold for stupid sums of money and rediculous claims made about them being the next perfect 'wonderdog' for everyone. If you want to create a breed you need a purpose in mind, there are plenty of dogs already fitting the 'pet dog' category without having to be hideously overpriced with over inflated marketing. People who want these dogs usually fall for the no groom hybrid vigour rubbish as well as the 'intelligent' bit (which is usually meaning 'train less!' to the credit card holder) They used working breeds to create a dog with no real working purpose which to me is a FAIL.

my recycled rescue pooch is a good pet, had to work with him as he was raw he had no training when i got him..

lots of people think that recycled pets in pounds, shelters have been dumped because of their behaviour so get put off. apart from talking up pedigrees i also talk up recycled pets and use my dog as a great example, so far we have inspired 3 ppl to get recycled pets. there's all sorts of different reasons why a pet is dumped not just because of behaviour. with my Jake, he grew into a big dog finished being a puppy so i think that is why he was dumped and left in a backyard to die with no water, shelter or food.

i mean any dog can be "intelligent" with the right training, any dog from a shelter, my dog has so many breeds in him and is healthy so far touch wood, hybrid vigour? or just luck, go the latter i think.

Edited September 8, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

Now c'mon, how could you call this ugly? This is Marley and his famous cheeseburger impersonation.

how gorgeous!!!!!!

[~Anne~]

"Who buys a dog based on looks alone? what responsible people, i mean?"

I would say that a pretty accurate assumption would be that most pet owners have chosen their pet based on looks as the primary factor.

[Wazzat Xolo]

so pleased I never have to worry about my breed as it is a a natural breed and not made by man made selection!!

Let he cast the first stone be a brave man!

The DD vs Purebred debate will be an ongoing issue for so many reasons and will always fill threads with the same arguements!

Very sad on so many levels

J

[poodlefan]

so pleased I never have to worry about my breed as it is a a natural breed and not made by man made selection!!

On the day your chosen breed becomes one half of a new DD craze Wazzat, you may understand how some of us feel. Its happening with Chinese Cresteds now so never say never.

[Wazzat Xolo]

so pleased I never have to worry about my breed as it is a a natural breed and not made by man made selection!!

On the day your chosen breed becomes one half of a new DD craze Wazzat, you may understand how some of us feel. Its happening with Chinese Cresteds now so never say never.

Oh believe me I understand as I have seen it in the USA first hand, where the breed a xolo to any dog to get an ugly dog for contests and $$$ that are big in the USA!! I can only do my best here with my dogs!!

I meant its the fact that so many breeds that are very popular today started like the Lab x poodle a mix, I am just happy that mine was not a man made breed in the first instance ( Probably didnt word my post to well)

J

[toy dog]

The other issue to consider is that people go for these dogs because their perception is that purebreds are for dog snobs, less healthy, harder to obtain and that breeders can be difficult to deal with. Those are real issues that purebred dog folk NEED to be discussing.

tell me about it, everyone probably knows by now that i started an all out war in my breed a few years ago (my former log in was SANRITA) simply because i stated that we had a problem with slipping patellas in our breed and it was very common. well the flak i got from that statement, breeders just wouldn't admit it and then took offense some even refusing me studs because i'd quoted the truth for the world to see. some said that i was making the breed look bad, some even accused me like as though i started the disease up myself in the breed. all i was inferring in the end instead of hiding it for generations that we be honest with each other and everyone else, it didn't go down too well at all.

that was sad to see the reaction like that when it should have been much different so sometimes breeders can be like this, since then i've been pumping out articles for breeders to read getting to the new breeders and i think breeders are much more accepting that breeds sometimes have problems that we need to iron out and stick together.

[poodlefan]

I meant its the fact that so many breeds that are very popular today started like the Lab x poodle a mix, I am just happy that mine was not a man made breed in the first instance ( Probably didnt word my post to well)

J

I doubt that any breed that is popular today started like the oodles have. Most of the recognised breeds were selectively bred for a purpose, to a tightly defined standard and any deviation from that standard was rigorously culled from the gene pool. With the *new name needed here* mix they allow all sizes, most coat types and have a standard wide enough to park a road train in.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I meant its the fact that so many breeds that are very popular today started like the Lab x poodle a mix, I am just happy that mine was not a man made breed in the first instance ( Probably didnt word my post to well)

J

I doubt that any breed that is popular today started like the oodles have. Most of the recognised breeds were selectively bred for a purpose, to a tightly defined standard and any deviation from that standard was rigorously culled from the gene pool. With the *new name needed here* mix they allow all sizes, most coat types and have a standard wide enough to park a road train in.

as in most breeds came from two seperate breeds ( of course they are health tested and functional)

I was referring to how most breeds are generated in the first instance by crossing two and sometimes more breeds to produce the desired breed!

[Shaar]

I agree with the comments about men not wanting to own poodles.

My OH wasn't too keen on them when we first started going out, however, then my mum bred a litter and he got to see them as tiny cute little babies and got to see them grow up.

Now I have Prada, my baby (well, 3 year old baby) out of that litter and he couldn't imagine life without her.

He still doesn't like admitting to his mates we own poodles, and if he does tell people they are always "the missus dogs" but I know deep down he really likes them.

Poodles don't have to be in show trims, they don't even have to have clipped faces, you can keep them looking like shaggy mutts if you really want, I just prefer to clip them for hygene reasons.

Google unclipped poodle photos, then google labradoodle photos... you would swear they are the same breed, which is why I don't understand peoples obsession with them.

I know of one place that does do health testing on their "mutts" which is a credit to them, but they are still advertising 2-3 different coat types which gets me.

[poodlefan]

If Winston Churchill, Patrick Swayze and George Washington chose to own poodles, you'd think most guys would be able to hack it.

Hardly what you'd call girly men were they?

Edited September 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[Aidan3]

Why take two perfectly good (not identiical in many ways) breeds and think you can improve on them by mixing their genes?

Originally it would have obviously been a quicker path to take a line of proven seeing eye dogs then try to give it a poodle coat. Although apparently one of the first recipients turned out to be allergic to poodle and lab coats, but not crossed coats (I don't know how they would measure this accurately, allergy testing is not an exact science today, let alone 30 years ago).

Obviously that's not the line of enquiry for BYBers and puppy mills, but I suppose it comes down to opinion after you wipe them from the face of the earth and just look at those who have the best of intentions. There are some who believe they can consistently produce the best examples of their breed, eventually. There are some ethical issues even amongst those, but again it is a matter of opinion.

I spoke with a guy who was home-breeding his Rott x Dobes and to speak to him he was convinced that he wasn't getting a mix of traits - but a Rott PLUS a Dobe (although he assured me none of them had two heads, but they acted like they had four balls). He was also of the opinion that they were "highly dominant lines", not just slightly lazier Dobes or slightly thinner Rotts. I get the impression that this is not an uncommon opinion, people are eternally optimistic with cross-breeds whether they be dogs, chooks, horses etc

[Aidan3]

I would own a poodle. A standard, obviously, not one of those girly ones like Churchill had.

[RallyValley]

I have to admit I am becoming quite partial to poodles However I don't think I could own one as I like showing and hate poodles in show clip

[poodlefan]

I would own a poodle. A standard, obviously, not one of those girly ones like Churchill had.

You'd be missing out then Aidan.. I find the minatures quite different to the standards in temperament and prefer the smaller dog. Clearly Churchill displayed the same discerning taste.

Of course many a manly man will opt for the Toy Poodle! Easier to carry on the Harley.

Edited September 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

I have to admit I am becoming quite partial to poodles However I don't think I could own one as I like showing and hate poodles in show clip

Do dog sports with one instead! I switched to a Whippet as a show dog but I honestly can't imagine life without a poodle around.

Edited September 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[RallyValley]

I mean look at this I think anyone who wants a mutt over one of these is delusional

Perhaps the general public just need to see more standard poodles unclipped and scruffy... they probably wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. Any poodle people have pics? Would be great to see some comparisons (here's my bad attempt at encouraging piccies)

Here you go. 9/10 people ask if she is a labradoodle, the rest ask if she's an Irish Water Spaniel. Maybe only 1 or 2 people have gotten it right, but those have always been other poodle owners

as a scruffy puppy

shaved, and still mistaken for a doodle

in-between

Being asked doesn't bother me, people are polite about it and I just tell them she's a standard poodle

[Aidan3]

Isn't that a recent shot of one of the Village People?

I would own a poodle. A standard, obviously, not one of those girly ones like Churchill had.

You'd be missing out then Aidan.. I find the minatures quite different to the standards in temperament and prefer the smaller dog. Clearly Churchill displayed the same discerning taste.

Of course many a manly man will opt for the Toy Poodle! Easier to carry on the Harley.

[frufru]

You know what I really don't get about the whole Lab/poodle cross thing?

Why take two perfectly good (not identiical in many ways) breeds and think you can improve on them by mixing their genes?

Poodles are not just like Labradors. Labradors are not poodles without the wool coat. Poodles are not just about their non-shedding coats. Those who want a dog with a guaranteed non-shedding coat already have a range of breeds and temperaments to choose from.

So why mix these two breeds with inconsistent results to produce "a great family pet". Poodles and Labradors both make great family pets in the right family.

I still maintain that the primary reason a lot of families opt for the mix is because the male of the house thinks owning a poodle will emasculate him. The men need to cowboy up and get past that idea pronto. If they can't then buy a bloody Lagotto or an Irish Water Spaniel or something.

:D It certainly is a cultural thing - that's why I married a German - he has no such inhibitions - he loves his poodles. Interestingly when I was visiting my sister who lives in a town with a high indigenous population - my large black male standard in full show trim was a great hit and the kids wanted to know was he a "fighting dog" :thumbsup:

Edited September 8, 2010 by frufru