Multigeneration Labradoodle?

[kiesha09]

I googled "Labradoodles" and found the website for them. The one that points people in the direction of breeders that are registered with the Labradoodle Association of Aust. They speak about all the genetic testing they do and what to look for in a registered breeder as opposed to a BYB or a non registered breder.

IF every single Labrador x Poodle breeder adhered to the principles on the website you found then I doubt many people would have too much to say about them.

Simple fact is - they don't.

Simple fact is - creating a new breed requires long term committment and strict criteria. Grabbing two random dogs and mating them doesn't work.

Multi-generational labrador x poodles certainly exist and I believe that somewhere there probably are a small number of people who sincerely do believe they are creating a new breed, and some of them even do adhere to the principles listed on that website, but if they want to be taken seriously they need to distance themselves completely from the puppy farm oodle AND change the name of their new breed - honestly how can you take something called a "Labradoodle" seriously

Not sure that is a fair comment. Not even ALL registered breeders of current registered breeds would adhere to all the principles on the website. If you look at the Australian Labradoodle Association code of ethics it is more stringent than the ANKC. Hip and elbow scoring must be done on all animals used for breeding, plus DNA testing for PRA. Animals with hip or elbow dysplasia must not be used for breeding and there is a suggested cut off for the hip score which is quite low. The combination of PRA results for the parents must produce nothing worse than an unaffected carrier offspring. There is nothing in the C of E about temperament or puppy socialisation but this is not a requirement of an ANKC - registered breeder either. All litters produced must be registered with the ALA. There is nothing in the Code of Ethics about breeding a bitch for 3 consecutive seasons, however the ANKC merely refuses to register the third litter.

I completely agree with you that grabbing 2 random dogs and mating them together doesn't work but those serious about developing this breed certainly do have a strict criteria.

They certainly have a major problem with BYBers which is definately going to hinder the development of the breed. If they really want to get it recognised I think they only way would be to change the name and distance themselves from the BYB's.

[poodlefan]

Keisha:

If you look at the Australian Labradoodle Association code of ethics it is more stringent than the ANKC.

Those involved in the ALA are not breeding Labradors to Poodles. They are way beyond doing F1 crosses.

Crossing two separate breeds:

* does not guaranteee that the offspring will have any one particular feature of either of them. Low shedding coats, size, temperament.. all a big question mark

* Does not eliminate the health issues in either of the parent breeds. Labradors and poodles carry identical genes for PRA.. HD etc also exists in both breeds

* does not create a breed when breeders do not move beyond F1 crosses

Your average "Labradoodle" breeder makes a range of outrageous unsupportable claims about what the pups will grow up to be, uses less than the best quality breeding stock, markets them at ridiculous prices to people who are novices in the dog world, doesn't health test and has zero interest in the pups unless they retain breeding rights.

That's what pisses me off about the DD generators. :

[Sandra777]

IF every single Labrador x Poodle breeder adhered to the principles on the website you found then I doubt many people would have too much to say about them.

Not sure that is a fair comment. Not even ALL registered breeders of current registered breeds would adhere to all the principles on the website.

And people have plenty to say about the difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an unethical one. No different. My point was, they can't expect "serious" dog people to take them seriously they need to push the difference between ethical and unethical in the same way ANKC breeders do.

[kiesha09]

Keisha:

If you look at the Australian Labradoodle Association code of ethics it is more stringent than the ANKC.

Those involved in the ALA are not breeding Labradors to Poodles. They are way beyond doing F1 crosses.

Crossing two separate breeds:

* does not guaranteee that the offspring will have any one particular feature of either of them. Low shedding coats, size, temperament.. all a big question mark

* Does not eliminate the health issues in either of the parent breeds. Labradors and poodles carry identical genes for PRA.. HD etc also exists in both breeds

* does not create a breed when breeders do not move beyond F1 crosses

Your average "Labradoodle" breeder makes a range of outrageous unsupportable claims about what the pups will grow up to be, uses less than the best quality breeding stock, markets them at ridiculous prices to people who are novices in the dog world, doesn't health test and has zero interest in the pups unless they retain breeding rights.

That's what pisses me off about the DD generators. :

Yes and these are the BYBers and puppy farmers who I am absolutely opposed to! But there are actually some people out there registered with the ALA who have a strict C of E and are trying to have this breed recognised and this is what I am not against.

There are many many people out there who want these dogs so why not educate them and directing them to buy from a ALA registered breeder and the benefits (ethical, health tested etc.) over BYBers just like many of us do for purebreeds. If we don't people are still going to buy these dogs but go to the closest place they can find one be int from a BYBer or a puppy farm.

Lets also be realistic and remember that there are many BYBers and puppy farmers of currently registered breeds too so its not a problem just limited to labradoodles.

[kiesha09]

IF every single Labrador x Poodle breeder adhered to the principles on the website you found then I doubt many people would have too much to say about them.

Not sure that is a fair comment. Not even ALL registered breeders of current registered breeds would adhere to all the principles on the website.

And people have plenty to say about the difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an unethical one. No different. My point was, they can't expect "serious" dog people to take them seriously they need to push the difference between ethical and unethical in the same way ANKC breeders do.

Absolutely AGREE and this is what I was trying to convey in my above post. You put it much more succinctly than I did though

[poodlefan]

Sandra:

There are many many people out there who want these dogs so why not educate them and directing them to buy from a ALA registered breeder and the benefits (ethical, health tested etc.) over BYBers just like many of us do for purebreeds. If we don't people are still going to buy these dogs but go to the closest place they can find one be int from a BYBer or a puppy farm.

I find when you question folk about why they think they want one of these dogs they:

* have rarely met an adult one

* believe the hype the dodgy breeders promote

* basically want all the advantages of a poodle without having to confess to owing one.

* have bought into the stereotype of the Lab and the Poodle and think they'll get all the best parts but none of the worst in a cross.

Given a range of other options, most can make a decision from amongst the recognised breeds.

I've never met a "Labradoodle" that wasn't an F1 cross. I'm happy to promote the idea of buying ANY pup from an ethical breeder but I can't recommend what I've never met.

ETA: And while folk continue to promote a *breed* with a name that is a composite of two other breeds, I'm not sure I want to.

Edited September 7, 2010 by poodlefan

[SnoPaws]

Just food for thought but I wonder what penalties are imposed on ALA members who breach the their Code of Ethics

Edited September 7, 2010 by SnoPaws

[Staranais]

Just food for thought but I wonder what penalties are imposed for ALA members who breach the their Code of Ethics

Says on their website:

http://www.laa.org.au/ala/Codeofethicsrules.htm

Suspension, a fine, kicked out, etc.

What does the AnKC do to members that breach the CoE (genuine question)?

ETA: agree with Poodlefan that the name needs work. I can understand why they don't want to change it (everyone knows the name = publicity) but surely changing it would help distance themselves from the BYB who are still only doing F1 crosses?

Edited September 7, 2010 by Staranais

[kiesha09]

I think alot of people also buy them because they either know other people with one or see them at the park etc. Plus they don't want a dog that is as big as a lab. Well thats what alot of people in my puppy classes tell me.

I have worked with LOTS of labradoodles from BYBers and Puppy Farmers through instructing. Temperament wise they are all over the place - some hypo (actually most of them), some relaxed, some timid, some outgoing. Coats are all over the place as is size.

However, my bf's house mate has a F5 cross which she got from an ALA registered breeder. He's a wonderful dog with a fantastic temperament and would make a great family pet. I have also instructed a couple of others from the same ALA breeder who have had very similar temperaments but their coats did vary. Whilst these dogs don't appeal to me personally I can see how they do to families and from the ones I've seen they have been good allrounders.

[kiesha09]

Gremlins...

Edited September 7, 2010 by kiesha09

[Miranda]

Just food for thought but I wonder what penalties are imposed for ALA members who breach the their Code of Ethics

Says on their website:

http://www.laa.org.au/ala/Codeofethicsrules.htm

Suspension, a fine, kicked out, etc.

What does the AnKC do to members that breach the CoE (genuine question)?

Suspension, a fine, kicked out

[Staranais]

Just food for thought but I wonder what penalties are imposed for ALA members who breach the their Code of Ethics

Says on their website:

http://www.laa.org.au/ala/Codeofethicsrules.htm

Suspension, a fine, kicked out, etc.

What does the AnKC do to members that breach the CoE (genuine question)?

Suspension, a fine, kicked out

Cool, thanks!

[WreckitWhippet]

ANKC will never accept the name as it currrently is, they will be forced to change it

[WreckitWhippet]

.

Edited September 7, 2010 by ReadySetGo

[poodlefan]

I think alot of people also buy them because they either know other people with one or see them at the park etc. Plus they don't want a dog that is as big as a lab. Well thats what alot of people in my puppy classes tell me.

I have worked with LOTS of labradoodles from BYBers and Puppy Farmers through instructing. Temperament wise they are all over the place - some hypo (actually most of them), some relaxed, some timid, some outgoing. Coats are all over the place as is size.

However, my bf's house mate has a F5 cross which she got from an ALA registered breeder. He's a wonderful dog with a fantastic temperament and would make a great family pet. I have also instructed a couple of others from the same ALA breeder who have had very similar temperaments but their coats did vary. Whilst these dogs don't appeal to me personally I can see how they do to families and from the ones I've seen they have been good allrounders.

And then they buy a Lab/Standard poodle cross and end up with a dog larger than a Lab.

I'd not mind $10 for every Lab/poodle cross owner who's said "gee he grew bigger than we thought he would".

Edited September 7, 2010 by poodlefan

[kiesha09]

Completely agree poodlefan I hear it all the time from those people who bought from BYBers.

For what its worth the ones I know bred by ALA registered breeders I believe all fit within their respective height ranges so those owners did know what they are getting.

[SnoPaws]

Just food for thought but I wonder what penalties are imposed for ALA members who breach the their Code of Ethics

Says on their website:

http://www.laa.org.au/ala/Codeofethicsrules.htm

Suspension, a fine, kicked out, etc.

What does the AnKC do to members that breach the CoE (genuine question)?

Suspension, a fine, kicked out

Cool, thanks!

It is also printed (in Victoria anyhow) in the gazette for all members to see

[megan_]

PF - those people would have got their dog from a BYB/puppy farmer. The ones that I know of that are bred by ALA breeders come in two sizes and they all seem to match owners expectations? They look VERY different to what average joe calls a "labradoodle".

[WreckitWhippet]

Completely agree poodlefan I hear it all the time from those people who bought from BYBers.

For what its worth the ones I know bred by ALA registered breeders I believe all fit within their respective height ranges so those owners did know what they are getting.

ahhh-hahhh

Given that large and small crop up in real breeds that have been around for hundreds of years and many more generations, I doubt the new owners of the mixes would know what they are getting.

[Miranda]

Whilst these dogs don't appeal to me personally I can see how they do to families and from the ones I've seen they have been good allrounders.

Poodles and labradors are also good all rounders. What advantages do LD's have over their purebred parents?