Multigeneration Labradoodle?

[Sandra777]

I know a few laid back ones and a few full on ones, either way they are one of the most popular breeds so they must be pretty suitable for the vast majority of homes. Maybe the reason the poodle isn't as popular is more about perception than anything else but that is a challenge for poodle breeders and clubs to change if they so desire.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers are right up there as one of the most popular breeds and they are NOT "pretty suitable for the vast majority of homes" so what makes the Labrador any different??

Far too many people who shouldn't own a pet rock let alone a dog buy a Lab because they believe they come fully trained - IMO nothing to do with the breed being suitable, all to do with the perception that they are born as the "perfect family pet".

[RubyStar]

I'm willing to bet that most owners don't like being covered in dog hair 24/7, but it's the sacrifice you make to own the breed you desire ;)

Can't say I love the Lab hair x 2, but I love my Labs and the hair is a small sacrifice for my heart breed.

I know what you are saying and to a certain extent I agree with you that people should be aware that some combinations may not be perfect or even possible but if the combination of the wooly coat and lab temp is achievable I see no real difference between the development of this breed and the development of many other breeds.

If people want a woolly Labrador then they don't really want a Labrador My sister has a Labradoodle (no idea if its a multigeneration Australian one from a "registered" breeder or not) and he is nothing like my Labs. Looks nothing like, and acts nothing like! And she was told he would be non-shedding and on the smaller side. Well there are tumbleweeds throughout her house and he is almost the size of a standard poodle! Thing is, he was tiiiiiiiny at 8-10 weeks (whatever age he got flown over), even I couldn't have seen he'd turn out that big! My Labs were much bigger pups and they turned out smaller than her Labradoodle.

Edited September 6, 2010 by RubyStar

[RubyStar]

It's very easy to say choose another breed but how many non shedding breeds have the laid back temp of the lab? The ones I've seen suggested in threads are often very high drive breeds which may not necessarily suit the average owner. The ones that would should be promoted as such if they fit the criteria for the average owner.

Where are all these laid back labs? All the ones I know (bar one guide dog, that is) are pretty full on.

That's what I was thinking. I own two and the only time they are laidback is when they are resting

Labradoodle debate aside, I think there needs to be more public awareness on that a Lab is not born a perfect family member! So many families want Labs cos they appear to come pre-trained and perfect with kids, but that only comes with constant, consistent training and time for them to mature! Maybe then people wouldn't be so quick to want a Lab or a Labradoodle and continue to tarnish the Lab reputation when they end up in the wrong hands.

I know a few laid back ones and a few full on ones, either way they are one of the most popular breeds so they must be pretty suitable for the vast majority of homes. Maybe the reason the poodle isn't as popular is more about perception than anything else but that is a challenge for poodle breeders and clubs to change if they so desire.

That's the thing about Labs, too, public perception that they are perfect family breeds. They can be, as noted above, but it takes work.

Edited September 6, 2010 by RubyStar

[megan_]

I think people are confusing the "average"-throw-any-poodle-with-a-lab labradoodle with the labradoodle's bred by those trying to make it a registered breed.

My sister has one bred by one of the breeders trying to get it recognised. She breeds consistent coat type (nothing like the labradoodles you see in the 'burbs) and consistent size. All parents are health tested (hips and elbows, PRA etc) and she takes back any dog that needs to be rehomed. They are multi-generational and their ancestory is traced.

There is a world of difference between her and a BYB/puppy farmer, much like there is a world of difference between a lab BYB'er and an ethical, registered lab breeder.

[aussielover]

It's very easy to say choose another breed but how many non shedding breeds have the laid back temp of the lab? The ones I've seen suggested in threads are often very high drive breeds which may not necessarily suit the average owner. The ones that would should be promoted as such if they fit the criteria for the average owner.

Where are all these laid back labs? All the ones I know (bar one guide dog, that is) are pretty full on.

I know a few laid back ones and a few full on ones, either way they are one of the most popular breeds so they must be pretty suitable for the vast majority of homes. Maybe the reason the poodle isn't as popular is more about perception than anything else but that is a challenge for poodle breeders and clubs to change if they so desire.

Sure, but that's for another thread. You were saying, I got the impression so correct me if I'm wrong, that the reason that people want labradoodles is because of the lab temp but wanted them not to shed. But, as you've said above, not all labs are laid back. They may be a perfect family dog but they're certainly not all laid back. Perhaps they're only considered a perfect family dog because people see perfectly behaved guide dogs and expect to get one of those out of the box.

Labs from guide dog lines tend to be more laid back.

Even the more excitable ones, with proper training do turn out to be good guide dogs. In fact, often the "naughtiest" guide dog puppies, turn out to be the best guide dogs in the end! Like most dogs, labs prefer to have a job to do and keep busy.

I disagree with the bolded statement. Yes, for sure, a few people probably get a lab because they see well behaved guide dogs but most would choose a lab for their reputation for being a fun-loving, friendly, family dog that is relatively easy to train (if you've got food lol).

I don't find the shedding a big deal, I mean you have to clean/vacuum your house regularly anyway.

As for labradoodles, I don't have a problem with people who are trying to develop them into a recognised breed- I don't know why people seem to be against this?

I do have a problem with BYBers and puppy farmers producing F1 crosses from untested parents though

I've actually found GRx Poodles in general tend to be nicer looking dogs as well as having better temperaments and would rather see the :"groodle" developed rather than the labradoodle. but just my opinion.

[huski]

I don't see "labradoodles" becoming a recognised breed any time soon. As it stands, there is enough in fighting/disagreement between the supposedly reputable breeders and some of the ALA breeders leave a lot to be desired I don't envisage that they will ever become a recognised breed at least under the name 'labradoodle' - they need to distinguish themselves between the people who are breeding crossbreeds and those who are supposedly breeding a type, and I don't see how they can do so when all the dogs are still called the same thing. That and I believe the ANKC has a rule about using existing breed names for a new breed.

[huski]

I've actually found GRx Poodles in general tend to be nicer looking dogs as well as having better temperaments and would rather see the :"groodle" developed rather than the labradoodle. but just my opinion.

The ALA aren't breeding simple lab/poodle crosses... I believe there can be up to six breeds they use to "infuse" into the mix.

You only have to look at the ALA website to see that the dogs are not breeding to type or with any real uniformity.

Edited September 6, 2010 by huski

[Sheridan]

I don't see "labradoodles" becoming a recognised breed any time soon. As it stands, there is enough in fighting/disagreement between the supposedly reputable breeders and some of the ALA breeders leave a lot to be desired I don't envisage that they will ever become a recognised breed at least under the name 'labradoodle' - they need to distinguish themselves between the people who are breeding crossbreeds and those who are supposedly breeding a type, and I don't see how they can do so when all the dogs are still called the same thing. That and I believe the ANKC has a rule about using existing breed names for a new breed.

Not soon but I think it will happen eventually. As to in-fighting between breeders, this happens with recognised breeds, too.

[huski]

I don't see "labradoodles" becoming a recognised breed any time soon. As it stands, there is enough in fighting/disagreement between the supposedly reputable breeders and some of the ALA breeders leave a lot to be desired I don't envisage that they will ever become a recognised breed at least under the name 'labradoodle' - they need to distinguish themselves between the people who are breeding crossbreeds and those who are supposedly breeding a type, and I don't see how they can do so when all the dogs are still called the same thing. That and I believe the ANKC has a rule about using existing breed names for a new breed.

Not soon but I think it will happen eventually. As to in-fighting between breeders, this happens with recognised breeds, too.

Yes but it's hardly going to help them create a new breed of dog if they can't agree on how to do it or what to call the bloody thing.

[Sheridan]

I don't see "labradoodles" becoming a recognised breed any time soon. As it stands, there is enough in fighting/disagreement between the supposedly reputable breeders and some of the ALA breeders leave a lot to be desired I don't envisage that they will ever become a recognised breed at least under the name 'labradoodle' - they need to distinguish themselves between the people who are breeding crossbreeds and those who are supposedly breeding a type, and I don't see how they can do so when all the dogs are still called the same thing. That and I believe the ANKC has a rule about using existing breed names for a new breed.

Not soon but I think it will happen eventually. As to in-fighting between breeders, this happens with recognised breeds, too.

Yes but it's hardly going to help them create a new breed of dog if they can't agree on how to do it or what to call the bloody thing.

Aren't they pretty much agreed that it's called the labradoodle? The only people who seem to object to the name don't have anything to do with the "breed".

As to how to create a new breed of dog, aren't some doing multigenerational as per this thread, who are getting type? Mind you, type is as type does, as seen in my own breed.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Sheridan

[Aidan]

Mind you, type is as type does, as seen in my own breed.

Hehe, the Wheatens they used could be causing their problems!

Lots of breeds have type issues, go to a dog show and look at the GSDs, and that is just (presumably) the ones bred with conformation in mind.

[Sheridan]

Mind you, type is as type does, as seen in my own breed.

Hehe, the Wheatens they used could be causing their problems!

Lots of breeds have type issues, go to a dog show and look at the GSDs, and that is just (presumably) the ones bred with conformation in mind.

Bloody wheatens, always in trouble!

Precisely. Was there, for instance, originally three different types of schnauzers?

[WoofnHoof]

It's very easy to say choose another breed but how many non shedding breeds have the laid back temp of the lab? The ones I've seen suggested in threads are often very high drive breeds which may not necessarily suit the average owner. The ones that would should be promoted as such if they fit the criteria for the average owner.

Where are all these laid back labs? All the ones I know (bar one guide dog, that is) are pretty full on.

I know a few laid back ones and a few full on ones, either way they are one of the most popular breeds so they must be pretty suitable for the vast majority of homes. Maybe the reason the poodle isn't as popular is more about perception than anything else but that is a challenge for poodle breeders and clubs to change if they so desire.

Sure, but that's for another thread. You were saying, I got the impression so correct me if I'm wrong, that the reason that people want labradoodles is because of the lab temp but wanted them not to shed. But, as you've said above, not all labs are laid back. They may be a perfect family dog but they're certainly not all laid back. Perhaps they're only considered a perfect family dog because people see perfectly behaved guide dogs and expect to get one of those out of the box.

Actually you're right laid back is not really descriptive of the temperament I'm thinking of it's more that they are an 'all rounder' type of dog, again it could just be perception but they aren't overly represented in the pounds yet the numbers of pups selling are huge suggesting that the people who get them are on the whole quite happy with them, or at least happy enough that they don't get dumped in huge numbers. From what I can tell from the pound listings here staffys are more highly represented in the pounds which suggests that they are less suitable for the 'average' owner?

[Steve]

You dont need to be ANKC to be a breed registry.the ANKC happen to be one breed registry but that doesnt mean they are the only ones who register purebred pedigrees.

Just because a breed isnt recognised by the ANKC doesn't mean anything more than that. There are some breeds who have decided to deliberately not apply for ANKC recognition and based on current politics it may be smart for anyone with a breed in development to shy away from wanting ANKC recognition!

Far as I can see these breeders are doing a pretty good job, and whether or not they do apply for ANKC recognition when they have reached all of the criteria to do that is of no consequence to me.

[Nekhbet]

The dogs I see most trouble with are labs. People have an expectation because they see a guide dog so calm and intelligent that all labs are like that. What they dont realise is how many dogs fail and how much training is involved to get the end product. People all expect that labs pop out that way - sorry they're retrievers, they're a hunting breed first.

If they want recognition they should remove the stupid name - and they cant come up with one because really the dog has little purpose, and 'money puppy' isnt really that PC a name now is it. All they're really aiming for is a fluffy dog. Plenty of those around already without throwing shitty coats that I'm hideously allergic to. Even the breeds going into the mix is not going to create a self-valium oozing, no-grooming-required, stick batteries up its butt dog that many families seem to want these days.

[aussielover]

The dogs I see most trouble with are labs. People have an expectation because they see a guide dog so calm and intelligent that all labs are like that. What they dont realise is how many dogs fail and how much training is involved to get the end product. People all expect that labs pop out that way - sorry they're retrievers, they're a hunting breed first.

If they want recognition they should remove the stupid name - and they cant come up with one because really the dog has little purpose, and 'money puppy' isnt really that PC a name now is it. All they're really aiming for is a fluffy dog. Plenty of those around already without throwing shitty coats that I'm hideously allergic to. Even the breeds going into the mix is not going to create a self-valium oozing, no-grooming-required, stick batteries up its butt dog that many families seem to want these days.

Agree, but don't see how adding poodle to the lab will resolve any of those issues, as poodles are also a gundog originally?

I don't find "labradoodles" to be calmer than labs, imo, they are often more silly than labs. In fact, i have a lot of peopple tell me "we got a labradoodle because we didn't want a dog as boisterous as a lab, and the poodle makes them much calmer and more sensible". This is while thier dog is bouncing all over the place, on top of people, other dogs etc, while my labrador puppy is sitting calmly by my feet LOL. I usually just smile and nod and let them delude themselves

Sadly, I see many dogs that are under-stimulated and bored and labs, like any dog, will become unruly and out of control if not given appropriate work, exercise and discipline.

[Nekhbet]

dont you know genetics works by pure magic. Mix together two active breeds and you will get a hypoallergenic, non shedding, totally sedate, pops out of mum already trained dog.

I should have taken my genetics degree from oodly breeders as they seem to have left the hocus pocus out at Melbourne Uni.

[SnoPaws]

Seriously, though, people have a strange idea of what the Poodle temperament is. Poodles were, after all, originally bred for water retrieving and can still be all-purpose utility dogs. Amongst dogs I have bred are those with Tracking titles, Herding titles & general Obedience titles. Poodles are also VERY people-orientated.

I've never seen a poodle with a herding title, at least not in this country as they are not an eligable breed.

Why?

Under ANKC regulations the eligable breeds are Group 5, plus Bernese Mountain Dog, Canaan Dog, Keeshond, Kerry Blue Terrier, Norwegian Elkhound, Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier, Tibetan Terrier, Standard Schnauzer, Giant Schnauzer and Rottweiller. All breeds who have a history of herding. It is much like gundog trials are restricted to gundogs.

Samoyed

[Wazzat Xolo]

Not entering into a debate on breeds as the majority of breeds ARE man made etc

and a bit

but just wanted to clarify

All dogs shed ( Dander aka skin cells are what most allergies are too) can also be urine and semen in some cases. Even hairless dogs shed dander , lets face it all living things shed!

[aussielover]

dont you know genetics works by pure magic. Mix together two active breeds and you will get a hypoallergenic, non shedding, totally sedate, pops out of mum already trained dog.

I should have taken my genetics degree from oodly breeders as they seem to have left the hocus pocus out at Melbourne Uni.

They haven't taught us that yet in uni

I look forward to it

ETA: I think the Portugese Water Dog has a similar, fun-loving temperament to the lab and with a basic clip, they look very similar to some labradoodles. I only know 2 of course, but they are both great dogs, very friendly and happy like the lab and are great family pets.

They are also guaranteed low-shedders.

Edited September 6, 2010 by aussielover