Traumatic Experience

[Aidan3]

Off-leash areas have been the least of my problems, although I do prefer places we can walk and avoid fenced in "doggy play parks".

[WreckitWhippet]

You know off lead park does not mean dogs can't be on lead in it - just that they're allowed to be off lead (provided they are under effective control) if the owner chooses.

Finally someone is making some sense.

[poochiemama]

You know off lead park does not mean dogs can't be on lead in it - just that they're allowed to be off lead (provided they are under effective control) if the owner chooses.

I think most people here would be aware of this

[Tim'sMum]

Yeah malsrock,

I am rethinking it. I am loathe to stop the dog park experience altogether, maybe i'll take them at quieter times. Although at the moment, i can't do it as i'd be too nervous.

Bub, thank you for your support - it's nice to know i'm not the only one who feels this way. by the way your dogs are adorable!

wow, i cant' believe how much debate this thread generated . it's a heated issue I guess.

Poochiemama....you will discover that some people can only what can be described as 'anal' when it comes to fenced dog parks.

According to them...

Every dog must be watched every nano-second of the time you are there...and woe betide any dog owner whose attention is dstracted for even one of those nano-seconds, even if they are bending over picking up a poo.

Your dog should be under your control at every nano-second you are there....which means you probably have to be able to run the equivalent of the '3 minute mile' to keep up with your dog while it runs with the pack and happily socialises.

Your dog must be totally 'bomb-proof' in that it loves, adores, worships every other dog it meets at the park...even if that dog is wary, humps your's continually or is intimidated by your dog. Owners of these other dogs are to be snarled at and villified for having an unsocialised dog, of course.

Owners who keep their dogs on lead are to be treated with deep suspicion....and it is 'de rigeur' to assume that their dog is dog aggressive and unfriendly.

That's the perfect world of dog parks!

Now, the reality is....

There will be people who bring their dogs to the park...and that dog is intimidated or overwhelmed by the number of other dogs and may get into an altercation. It may be their very first visit....who knows?

How does anyone know how their dog will react to a park full of many dogs, all hyped by the experience, until you take them? The only totally laid back dogs I see at our local dog park are two Wolfhounds, who usually just sit or lay down. Everywhere else you look, there are dogs of all breeds, all shapes and sizes....running, playing, chasing a ball, socialising. sniffing bums and having fun. It's a frantic place at times.

You are obliged to pick up dog poo...so yes, your attention might be diverted while you do so. If you have more than one dog...and they head in different directions, you have to try to watch both and be close to both at exactly the same time, which is not easy.

This is why I keep one of my dogs on lead...and let the other off lead. No, the one I keep on lead is not dog aggressive, but she can be a intimidated a tad more easily than my other dog and does not have the recall that the other one does. She may not be terribly bright, and as a rescue, came to us with no training, no manners, fearful of other dogs at times and with little socialisation...but we love her and have made huge inroads with her behaviour, although it may never be perfect. ;)

I have had other owners come up and ask me, if I need to keep my dog on lead...should I even be in the park at all?

If she is on lead...she is under my control. If another dog comes up to her and their body language tells me that it is not a happy meeting then I have far better control than if she was off lead.

NO dog is perfect....and each dog is an individual and will prefer some dogs to others.

The occasional altercation will happen when you get so many dogs in one enclosed relatively small area. The variety of dogs can be mind blowing...from rare pedigree breeds, pound rescues to puppy farm puppies and cross bred BYB dogs. You cannot expect every dog to be of 'sound breeding' and have a totally even temperament. Even extremely well bred pedigree dogs may have their rare 'moments'...as much as some people will try to tell you otherwise.

If a dog is intimidating yours...step in between them, be confident. I did just that recently when an owner was panicking about another dog getting into the face of his dog. The 'intimidating' dog was a young boofhead Amstaff who was just being a bit pushy and the dog being intimidated, a timid G. Retreiver, was cowering at his owner's feet. The owner kept going 'shoo' to no effect. I stepped between the dogs and firmly told the Amstaff 'No' acouple of times until he backed off and I found his owner and alerted him to his dog's behaviour...in a friendly and polite manner. It was appreciated. There is usually never a need for nastiness.

The way to cope with dog parks is to perhaps expect the unexpected. You should certainly be vigilant, you should get to know dog body language, you should expect that NOT every dog is going to be perfectly behaved 100% of the time. You should understand that there will be the gammut of owners there too...from the highly experienced dog handlers, arrogant owners who think their dogs are perfect or who are ignorant of dog behaviour as well, the 'middle ground' of owners who love their dogs but may not be totally knowledgable about dog behaviour (the majority and me included) and then you have first time dog owners...the newbies.

If you have a bad experience at a dog park, the alternatives are to avoid it entirely, or try again, first checking that the dog that has attacked your dog before is not there.

You cannot assume that every other dog is perfect or that every other owner is in total control 100% of the time.....and there is absolutely no point about being anal and pontificating about what other dog owners should or shouldn't do.

There is no 'elitist' rule that only purebred, therefore with known temperament dogs are allowed in dog parks. Anyone can and does go to dog parks. Dogs can be off-lead or on lead.

Visiting these parks, there is always a risk....so you either accept that risk or you dont.

[poochiemama]

Hehe Tim's mum, your post made me laugh, very well-put.

I'm just beginning to realise how many anal dog owners there are out there. It is not practical to watch your dog every nano-second and sometimes your dog is too far before you can do anything about it.

That is absolutely a reality in dog parks.

And there is a risk. That's why i'm rethinking going to dog parks at all but it breaks my heart because they love it so much.

[dancinbcs]

Hehe Tim's mum, your post made me laugh, very well-put.

I'm just beginning to realise how many anal dog owners there are out there. It is not practical to watch your dog every nano-second and sometimes your dog is too far before you can do anything about it.

That is absolutely a reality in dog parks.

And there is a risk. That's why i'm rethinking going to dog parks at all but it breaks my heart because they love it so much.

In your situation with an only dog I would try to arrange to meet with one or two owners with friendly dogs, that you know well. If you can manage to meet at the offlead park at quiet times you could let the dogs play but put them straight back on lead if you spot a strange dog. Don't know how busy the park you use is or if this is possible, but I would certainly be avoiding large packs of dogs in future. Anywhere there are large packs of dogs, fights are bound to break out because it is a very un-natural situation for dogs to be put in.

Your girl seems to have escaped this encounter mentally unscathed but a second attack would be best avoided. I just never take any chances with mine because my breed tend to not take being attacked very well at all and I have seen many perfectly friendly dogs become seriously dog agressive after just one attack. They have memories like elephants and usually take a sudden and lifelong dislike to the entire breed that attacked them.

As for breaking up fights that may occur despite taking all precautions, I find each owner grabbing a tail to be the best method of getting them apart if they are breeds that don't tend to really hold on. With a firm grip on the tail you can pull the dogs away from each other, lifting the back legs slightly if necessary to get them off balance enough to end the fight. With terriers that tend to latch on and not let go it is more complicated but the average dog fight which is mainly noise, saliva and an occasional puncture the tail method works. Of course it only works for breeds with tails.

[corvus]

If she's still young and already well socialised, there's every chance she will learn to discriminate between dogs that can be approached and dogs that should be left alone. My last dog could, and the older of my two current dogs can as well. I've seen him pull up short several metres from a dog and turn around and walk away. I have seen the dog he avoided get into a fight with another dog a minute later. Little Erik is still a bit juvenile and I won't trust his judgement for a while yet. For the moment, I make the calls about who he approaches and who he doesn't. One of my great joys in visiting dog parks is watching the way Kivi behaves towards other dogs. I swear, he has a tailored strategy for every dog he meets.

[malsrock]

If she's still young and already well socialised, there's every chance she will learn to discriminate between dogs that can be approached and dogs that should be left alone. My last dog could, and the older of my two current dogs can as well. I've seen him pull up short several metres from a dog and turn around and walk away. I have seen the dog he avoided get into a fight with another dog a minute later. Little Erik is still a bit juvenile and I won't trust his judgement for a while yet. For the moment, I make the calls about who he approaches and who he doesn't. One of my great joys in visiting dog parks is watching the way Kivi behaves towards other dogs. I swear, he has a tailored strategy for every dog he meets.

Hi Corvus

I am interested to know how they learn to discriminate between dogs, I know what you mean in viewing that behaviour, but don't they generally learn from aversive experiences initially which teaches them to understand other dog's body language???. In other words, being snapped at, growled at or dominantly challenged by other dogs is they way i am thinking that they learn their descrimination skills???.

Fiona

[poochiemama]

In your situation with an only dog I would try to arrange to meet with one or two owners with friendly dogs, that you know well. If you can manage to meet at the offlead park at quiet times you could let the dogs play but put them straight back on lead if you spot a strange dog. Don't know how busy the park you use is or if this is possible, but I would certainly be avoiding large packs of dogs in future. Anywhere there are large packs of dogs, fights are bound to break out because it is a very un-natural situation for dogs to be put in.

This. I found that after several months of taking my dog to dog parks almost daily, he started acting out when faced with dogs that were either dominant or not so dominant but bouncy and lacking in manners. I have had a behaviourist assess Justice and the verdict was that he is naturally a highly submissive dog and was proven to be able to be successfully introduced to a huge range of breeds and sizes without issue, provided the other dog was calm and didn't behave in a manner that would be considered by other dogs to be rude. Note - that does not mean that because people see a dogs' behaviour as friendly that it's not rude to another dog.

Justice loves playing with other dogs and I love watching him tearing around off leash having a blast but there are ways to do this that don't involve the risks of dog parks, which we no longer go to. I have specifically sourced dogs that are suitable for Justice to play with through other DOLers and started setting up play dates with only one or two other dogs at a time. We choose parks that are ordinarily completely empty and whose entrances are highly visible and allow us to put our dogs back on leash in the event that someone else does come along, before they enter the park. He also plays with my Mum's dog and two dogs that he has a proven history with at a local dual purpose park - a park that has only one entrance and is small enough that no matter where you are in the park you can see someone approaching with another dog before they enter.

There is no reason why you couldn't do something similar with your dog if you still want play time with other dogs. It just takes a bit of planning and organisation, which is well worth it when it means your dog is no longer at risk of being attacked or being involved in a fight for telling off another rude dog.

Thank you that's very helpful.

Sometimes we go to the local park in the evening after work around 8 and it's very quiet, there's no one there and we feel so safe. They have an absolute ball and when we get home they are knackered. But then, there are no other dogs there and i would like them to play with a couple of well-socialised dogs.

It's a bit tricky in our neighbourhood as there are no parks similar to the ones you describe above, most are over-run with dogs unless you go at odd times. But I do have a friend who has a couple of lovely dogs and i think i'm going to organise some playdates with her dogs as you guys have suggested.

By the way , I think someone mentioned that I only have one dog but I actually have two. Do people think that two 'sibling' dogs playing together all the time is fine or do dogs need to do play with a host of different dogs to be satisfied?

[poochiemama]

If she's still young and already well socialised, there's every chance she will learn to discriminate between dogs that can be approached and dogs that should be left alone. My last dog could, and the older of my two current dogs can as well. I've seen him pull up short several metres from a dog and turn around and walk away. I have seen the dog he avoided get into a fight with another dog a minute later. Little Erik is still a bit juvenile and I won't trust his judgement for a while yet. For the moment, I make the calls about who he approaches and who he doesn't. One of my great joys in visiting dog parks is watching the way Kivi behaves towards other dogs. I swear, he has a tailored strategy for every dog he meets.

Thanks corvus and dancingbcs.

i just hope i'm never in that situation again but if it does happen, i wanted to have a strategy and people have given me many useful suggestions. I once also heard of a spray which you can spray into a dog fight to break it up (at the risk of the dog turning around and biting you) - anyone have any experience with that?

She is well socialised and has just turned one; i hope that she does learn to discriminate. Our lab is a little older than her and has a great sense of which dogs he should approach and not approach, which is great. I never taught him that, he just has a sixth sense for that.

[corvus]

I am interested to know how they learn to discriminate between dogs, I know what you mean in viewing that behaviour, but don't they generally learn from aversive experiences initially which teaches them to understand other dog's body language???. In other words, being snapped at, growled at or dominantly challenged by other dogs is they way i am thinking that they learn their descrimination skills???.

Fiona

That is the way as I understand it, yes. I am quite careful about it. Generally speaking, the only time I would ever let a puppy or young, inexperienced dog make a mistake that is going to earn them something more than a growl or snap is if I have seen the dog in question escalate before and know they will be thoroughly appropriate. And there are no random dogs around that I don't know very well, because funny things can happen. I like them to mix with dogs that escalate slowly and steadily so that I have ample time to act if I need to and my dog gets a chance or two to modify their behaviour. I don't let them pester dogs I don't know well. My dogs get snapped at and whatever they end up doing, whether it's appease or move away, or whatever else, they are back to normal behaviour a moment later and that's how it should be in my mind. They should care if they get the canine equivalent of being shouted at, but they shouldn't completely shut down and be thoroughly traumatised by it. They should be able to learn from it and then move on.

Every interaction is different, and what I let Kivi do when he was a puppy is different to what I let Erik do. I just err on the side of caution a lot. I find if I do that I am rarely surprised in a bad way. I see lots of people just kinda toss their dogs in and let them work it out for themselves. Most of them seem to come through it having learnt how to talk dog very well, but I guess some end up being overly protective of their personal space. It interests me that they often seem to learn who to avoid and what to do to stay out of trouble in a tense situation without getting nailed. Sometimes I wonder just where Kivi learnt what he appears to have learnt. How does he know to avoid a dog that ends up picking fights when he's never actually been in a real fight? My last dog was still acting in novel ways towards strange dogs when she was 12 years old. I guess it's not just learning what to do, but learning patterns, context, and variations. It is beautiful to watch a native at it. I am not sure if Erik will ever be as flexible as Kivi is, but if he isn't I guess that just means I have to be more vigilant and step in more often.

[malsrock]

I am interested to know how they learn to discriminate between dogs, I know what you mean in viewing that behaviour, but don't they generally learn from aversive experiences initially which teaches them to understand other dog's body language???. In other words, being snapped at, growled at or dominantly challenged by other dogs is they way i am thinking that they learn their descrimination skills???.

Fiona

That is the way as I understand it, yes. I am quite careful about it. Generally speaking, the only time I would ever let a puppy or young, inexperienced dog make a mistake that is going to earn them something more than a growl or snap is if I have seen the dog in question escalate before and know they will be thoroughly appropriate. And there are no random dogs around that I don't know very well, because funny things can happen. I like them to mix with dogs that escalate slowly and steadily so that I have ample time to act if I need to and my dog gets a chance or two to modify their behaviour. I don't let them pester dogs I don't know well. My dogs get snapped at and whatever they end up doing, whether it's appease or move away, or whatever else, they are back to normal behaviour a moment later and that's how it should be in my mind. They should care if they get the canine equivalent of being shouted at, but they shouldn't completely shut down and be thoroughly traumatised by it. They should be able to learn from it and then move on.

Every interaction is different, and what I let Kivi do when he was a puppy is different to what I let Erik do. I just err on the side of caution a lot. I find if I do that I am rarely surprised in a bad way. I see lots of people just kinda toss their dogs in and let them work it out for themselves. Most of them seem to come through it having learnt how to talk dog very well, but I guess some end up being overly protective of their personal space. It interests me that they often seem to learn who to avoid and what to do to stay out of trouble in a tense situation without getting nailed. Sometimes I wonder just where Kivi learnt what he appears to have learnt. How does he know to avoid a dog that ends up picking fights when he's never actually been in a real fight? My last dog was still acting in novel ways towards strange dogs when she was 12 years old. I guess it's not just learning what to do, but learning patterns, context, and variations. It is beautiful to watch a native at it. I am not sure if Erik will ever be as flexible as Kivi is, but if he isn't I guess that just means I have to be more vigilant and step in more often.

I agree with you perceptions Corvus, I think you are spot on. Dog's shutting down to a growl and snap from another IMHO depends the individual nerve strength of the dog how quickly they recover. I have an 8 year old GSD and a 12 month old Malinois and the pup has been chastised many times when he gets too silly in play. He backs off instantly if old Sammy gets cranky, but he will dance around and half the time have another go to try one on. It happened once when Sam got really cranky, chased the pup, bailed him up against the fence, growled and showed his teeth and the pup pee'd in submission, he was about 10 months old then. Sam saunted off and the pup although wary sprung back out unscathed, but the line it appears was drawn. They play hard together, but there is a particular growl I can clearly notice when the pup will back out of the game. Obviously I control the play and watch closely for any signs of the pup wanting to challenge Sammy with dominant aggression which could happen down the track and have trained and work with a "enough" command which is working well if things get a bit over boisterious I will settle it down.

I think if the dogs who interact together are temperament and nerve stable things become a self learning exercise quite safely, but it's when they encounter dogs of some instability and over reactivity is when it can go pear shaped.

Fiona

[corvus]

I think if the dogs who interact together are temperament and nerve stable things become a self learning exercise quite safely, but it's when they encounter dogs of some instability and over reactivity is when it can go pear shaped.

My hope is that if I let them learn with a wide range of stable dogs, then when they meet the unstable ones they recognise the signs of a dog that they should avoid and do so without needing me to tell them. That is more or less where Kivi is at now. There are as many styles of communication as there are dogs, and there are degrees of stability. We see dogs that have figured out their own unique way of interacting that makes them feel most comfortable. Some of those dogs were not well socialised as youngsters and include a lot of bluster, or strangely pushy behaviour, or ambivalence so that a dog trying to understand them can be easily confused about whether they want to play or be left alone. I figure as long as we live in the suburbs, these dogs are going to be commonly encountered, so may as well be considered normal. My boys seem to accept that some dogs are quite odd and if they just keep their heads down and be slow and gentle they will keep out of trouble. They definitely prefer to mix with dogs that behave more predictably, though.

Incidentally, when Kivi was still a pup it was not uncommon for him to react to being snapped at or threatened by tossing his head and maybe play-bowing. It's like saying "Hey, I'm just playing, you know?" He used to whip that one out for my grumpy old girl if he accidentally trod on her or ran into her. It did usually work. Erik does it a little bit as well. It looks like they are just diving right back in after being told off, but they stay out of range and use these exaggerated play signals. I sometimes think it's a way for them to release social tension after they make a blunder, but then, sometimes it looks like a preventative as well, or a way to put the other dog at ease so they may be allowed to approach. There are so many contexts and variations.

[WreckitWhippet]

You know off lead park does not mean dogs can't be on lead in it - just that they're allowed to be off lead (provided they are under effective control) if the owner chooses.

I think most people here would be aware of this

I doubt it, given that plenty think "dog beaches" aren't for humans and get all antzy when someone using the beach takes offence to being harrassed by an off leash dog.

The same applies for dog parks and leash free areas and of course you are in the bloody wrong if your dog goes up to any onleash dog and an incident occurs.

[megan_]

If your dog is "very reactive" shouldn't you have it muzzled?

It is normal for dog to have a sniff when greeting, even if a dog is boisterous or over enthusiastic, I would expect a balanced dog to at most, give a "telling off" not a full on bite.

If my dog had ever injured another dog, no way would i take it to an off leash park unless muzzled.

I've had a 30 - 40kg "friendly" dog jump on my slightly reactive dog. She was hurt. What is she meant to do? Not defend herself? SHe might grunmble, but these "friendly" dgos don't normally get the hint.

Simple fact is that some dogs don't actually suit eachother. I don't let mine play with labs because their playing style is far to physical for my dogs. Many lab owners at my park think I'm a total bitch. If that is the price that I have to pay to protect my dogs, then so be it.

[aussielover]

If your dog is "very reactive" shouldn't you have it muzzled?

It is normal for dog to have a sniff when greeting, even if a dog is boisterous or over enthusiastic, I would expect a balanced dog to at most, give a "telling off" not a full on bite.

If my dog had ever injured another dog, no way would i take it to an off leash park unless muzzled.

I've had a 30 - 40kg "friendly" dog jump on my slightly reactive dog. She was hurt. What is she meant to do? Not defend herself? SHe might grunmble, but these "friendly" dgos don't normally get the hint.

Simple fact is that some dogs don't actually suit eachother. I don't let mine play with labs because their playing style is far to physical for my dogs. Many lab owners at my park think I'm a total bitch. If that is the price that I have to pay to protect my dogs, then so be it.

A dog defending itself doesn't make it "very reactive". I would consider a dog to be very reactive if it attacked a dog that was just walking by, or saying a polite hello (both dogs off lead of course).

My old aussie would also defend herself if a dog got up in her face or jumped on her. BUt she would never injure the other dog just give it a good telling off.

I am a new lab owner and I don't let my dog play with dogs that don't appreciate the lab playing style. I am not offended if some dogs don't get on well with her, I mean you can't like everyone can you, and dogs are the same.

[Novjan]

I have found this thread very interesting, the good the bad and the ugly parts

Could somebody give an idiots guide to helping a puppy/young dog approach and greet other dogs

We have 2 Springers who are now 9 months old, when they were 16wks old they went puppy school for 5 weeks, before we could put them on the ground we would take them out in the car and let them experience things like, local shops, busy sports ovals etc and I would leave our front door open so they could watch the kids playing in the park opposite, the postie, the bin lorry etc

I also took them to one of those puppy classes in a pet store, just for the socialization with other pups, the class was pants put they got to meet other pups in a safe environment. The reason I did this was because one of the pups spent most of the 'good' puppy class play time under our chair while her sister got in there and played. So I took the one who was not so confident on her own to the other class, she was different puppy! and I really think it did her good.

We work very hard at giving them time apart, separate walks as well as walks together, more separate while they are still learning. If I am working at home they are put in different areas, we are lucky to have two sides of house suitable for them.

They also have contact with my sisters two 'Lab/beagle cross dogs who are about 6yrs old, also litter sisters. The older dogs have corrected them on occassions when they have started playing boistrosly or getting in their faces too much, a growl, a snap with no contact and howling at them when start thier play fighting together.

And now we are attending dog club, doing the socialisation walk and then the class most Sundays.

Our problem is they get very excited when they see other dogs and people, they want to bounce up and say hello - I know that we should not let them do this and what we are working on at the moment is getting them to sit and 'watch' when we see anyone coming - is that the right thing to do?? the problem is it is very hard to get thier attention sometimes, most of the time!! whatever treats we have they just completely ignore them. OR we turn and walk in the other direction.

I would like to get to the stage where they do not react to a dog or a person walking by - how can we do this?

All helpful suggestions very gratefully received.

[sas]

I have found this thread very interesting, the good the bad and the ugly parts

Could somebody give an idiots guide to helping a puppy/young dog approach and greet other dogs

We have 2 Springers who are now 9 months old, when they were 16wks old they went puppy school for 5 weeks, before we could put them on the ground we would take them out in the car and let them experience things like, local shops, busy sports ovals etc and I would leave our front door open so they could watch the kids playing in the park opposite, the postie, the bin lorry etc

I also took them to one of those puppy classes in a pet store, just for the socialization with other pups, the class was pants put they got to meet other pups in a safe environment. The reason I did this was because one of the pups spent most of the 'good' puppy class play time under our chair while her sister got in there and played. So I took the one who was not so confident on her own to the other class, she was different puppy! and I really think it did her good.

We work very hard at giving them time apart, separate walks as well as walks together, more separate while they are still learning. If I am working at home they are put in different areas, we are lucky to have two sides of house suitable for them.

They also have contact with my sisters two 'Lab/beagle cross dogs who are about 6yrs old, also litter sisters. The older dogs have corrected them on occassions when they have started playing boistrosly or getting in their faces too much, a growl, a snap with no contact and howling at them when start thier play fighting together.

And now we are attending dog club, doing the socialisation walk and then the class most Sundays.

Our problem is they get very excited when they see other dogs and people, they want to bounce up and say hello - I know that we should not let them do this and what we are working on at the moment is getting them to sit and 'watch' when we see anyone coming - is that the right thing to do?? the problem is it is very hard to get thier attention sometimes, most of the time!! whatever treats we have they just completely ignore them. OR we turn and walk in the other direction.

I would like to get to the stage where they do not react to a dog or a person walking by - how can we do this?

All helpful suggestions very gratefully received.

Have you tried working with them on a long line and calling them back and rewarding heavily? This way you're making yoruself way my fun than the other dogs and people.

Really, a dog shouldn't be off lead if it can't recall back to its' owner.

[poochiemama]

You know off lead park does not mean dogs can't be on lead in it - just that they're allowed to be off lead (provided they are under effective control) if the owner chooses.

I think most people here would be aware of this

The same applies for dog parks and leash free areas and of course you are in the bloody wrong if your dog goes up to any onleash dog and an incident occurs.

I think this is black-and-white thinking , but have already addressed these sort of comments in earlier posts.

[poodlefan]

Before the finger pointing and hair pulling got underway, did anyone advise the OP to take her dog to a vet?

A bite wound can be worse internally than externally and abcesses are not uncommon as a result. I'd want my dog checked out and some antibiotics as well.

The alternative to public dog parks is private dog obedience clubs. Some have offlead areas for members. That doesn't guarantee an incident free time but it sure improves the odds of one.

Another alternative has already been suggested - use the public places at quiet times when other users aren't around.