Traumatic Experience

[Kavik]

To answer your questions:

1) It is hard to say if your dog is going to have problems arising from this situation. It depends on a lot of things such as your dog's general temperament, previous socialisation history with other dogs, how you handle future interactions with other dogs

2) No idea how to break up a dog fight effectively. The one time I needed to (my dog was severely attacked by an off lead dog while I was walking mine on lead) I tried everything I could think of and it is only because other people came to help when I screamed for help that my dog is likely still alive. It is certainly very difficult by yourself.

[poochiemama]

Thank you Kavik,

That's all I wanted to know and that is very helpful.

She seems fine now actually and has been playing with other dogs with no problems. Her wounds are clearing up too.

[Sheridan]

There is a HUGE difference between a dog politely approaching another one and sniffing it and a dog rushing up to another dog, getting in its face, completely disregarding the other dogs body language, and being plain rude. I see this with labs ALL the time, and no its not just restricted to that breed, but if I hear one more person with an over the top, rude dog who allows it to rush up and get in the face of whatever dog it pleases, tell me their dog is "just being friendly and saying hello" I will have to shoot someone

Repeated for truth.

[julesluvscavs]

One of our Cavs can be a bit narky at times , so these days we don't go to off leash parks (plus I had a very traumatic experience years ago with another one of my dogs in one)

We arn't too happy if unleashed dogs come up to us while we are out and about, regardless if the dog is a friendly one (not that you can tell always at the time). I am aware she is like that, so I do the responsible thing by having her under control, and avoiding certain situations (if possible)

I am sorry to hear you had a really bad experience tho PM, but unfortutely these things sometimes happen, been there done that which is why I am more cautious with my current dogs now

Edited September 4, 2010 by Jules♥Cavs

[poochiemama]

Thanks JulesCav,

well i'm definitely going to be so much more careful now; unfortunately dogs can be unpredictable. i appreciate that some dogs can be snarky and it's nice that there are many responsible owners out there.

we all do our best but sometimes these situations are, unfortunately, unavoidable. I think as a dog-owning community, we really should be supporting our own group who are responsible pet owners, who do all the right things , but who sometimes find themselves in these situations. There are enough dog-hating people out there without us all turning on each other as has happened in this thread.

I'm going to have a lovely day with my pooches. They give me so much joy that these incidents are just part and parcel of owning dogs and the benefits far outweigh the risks for me.

Have fun with your cavs today!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Dogs parks are risky places, that is for sure. However, I'm serious when I say that if a particular dog is dog aggressive, whether it's with all other dogs in all situations or just when it is approached whilst on lead in a dog park and it is likely to do serious damage to the other dog, it shouldn't be there.

When walking my dogs, I'm approached by off leash dogs in the street regularly and that's a different story and they have been attacked. Of course the owners should not let their dogs wander, they can be attack or be attacked by dogs who are being walked on lead by responsible owners or hit by a car.

Taking a dog aggressive dog to a dog park, even if on the lead is not responsible. It's like giving a paedophile a job in a kindergarten - something's likely to happen sooner or later.

At one of our large local dog off leash parks a couple of years ago I saw a woman with a staffy on a lead in the middle of the park. I was picking up one of my dog's poop and walking towards the bin when I heard a yelp. Yes, it was one of my friendly little dogs weighing about 4.5 kilos who'd gone up to say hello to the staffy (not bounce, not attack but yes, guilty of being friendly with other dogs). I rushed over and the woman said "My dog doesn't like other dogs, I told your dog to go away but he didn't".

Should I have walked in reverse towards the bin so I could have watched 100% of the time? It's not realistic.

I still cannot understand why she put everyone elses' dogs at risk and told her just that. Antisocial dogs don't belong there.

[wuffles]

My favourite quote from the article is this:

We cannot expect our dogs to be saints - at least not until we can rise to that level of tolerance ourselves. And that's unlikely to happen any time soon. We can expect our dogs to be tolerant to the degree that we educate them, socialize them and protect them - with respect to their individual needs and boundaries.

I also think the explanation of the Fight-Bite Ratio is important -- there is a difference between warnings, scraps and actual aggression resulting in injury.

OP, I'm glad to hear your girl doesn't seem too traumatised by the incident

[julesluvscavs]

Thanks JulesCav,

well i'm definitely going to be so much more careful now; unfortunately dogs can be unpredictable. i appreciate that some dogs can be snarky and it's nice that there are many responsible owners out there.

we all do our best but sometimes these situations are, unfortunately, unavoidable. I think as a dog-owning community, we really should be supporting our own group who are responsible pet owners, who do all the right things , but who sometimes find themselves in these situations. There are enough dog-hating people out there without us all turning on each other as has happened in this thread.

I'm going to have a lovely day with my pooches. They give me so much joy that these incidents are just part and parcel of owning dogs and the benefits far outweigh the risks for me.

Have fun with your cavs today!

Thank you poophiemamma, probably won't be walking them today, its been really bad weather.. they hanging out tho to go somewhere ! (might just take them for a drive, which they love just as much lol)

I hope you and your pooches have a lovely day too (and hopefully incident free!)

[Staranais]

It's an issue with lots of grey areas, I think. And people with aggressive dogs will always be more sympathetic to others in the same plight, just like those who have friendly dogs will be sympathetic to those with friendly dogs.

Taking a downright dog aggressive dog to a busy off leash dog park is just silly I feel, even if you do keep it on a leash at all times. It's an accident waiting to happen.

But there are grey areas. There are different types of dog park, and different levels of dog-dog aggression. What if the "dog aggressive" dog is only snarky to other dogs that are downright rude or pushy - do dog parks only belong to dogs that can tolerate any kind of rudeness without biting back? What if the dog beach is huge and almost empty, & the owner of the aggressive dog is clearly doing their best to keep their dog out of everyone's way - should that dog never go to the beach in case a "friendly" dog suddenly appears?

I think it's the responsibility of everyone at the park to keep dogs safe. If your dog is sometimes aggressive to other dogs, then don't go to busy off leash parks. If your dog is really aggressive to other dogs, don't go to off leash dog parks at all. If your dog is friendly but might conceivably overwhelm shy dogs, don't let it bowl on to other dogs without asking. If another owner appears to want to keep their distance in a large park, or looks like they're training their dog, don't let your dog run up to it without checking first. Etc.

[Kavik]

It's an issue with lots of grey areas, I think. And people with aggressive dogs will always be more sympathetic to others in the same plight, just like those who have friendly dogs will be sympathetic to those with friendly dogs.

Taking a downright dog aggressive dog to a busy off leash dog park is just silly I feel, even if you do keep it on a leash at all times. It's an accident waiting to happen.

But there are grey areas. There are different types of dog park, and different levels of dog-dog aggression. What if the "dog aggressive" dog is only snarky to other dogs that are downright rude or pushy - do dog parks only belong to dogs that can tolerate any kind of rudeness without biting back? What if the dog beach is huge and almost empty, & the owner of the aggressive dog is clearly doing their best to keep their dog out of everyone's way - should that dog never go to the beach in case a "friendly" dog suddenly appears?

I think it's the responsibility of everyone at the park to keep dogs safe. If your dog is sometimes aggressive to other dogs, then don't go to busy off leash parks. If your dog is really aggressive to other dogs, don't go to off leash dog parks at all. If your dog is friendly but might conceivably overwhelm shy dogs, don't let it bowl on to other dogs without asking. If another owner appears to want to keep their distance in a large park, or looks like they're training their dog, don't let your dog run up to it without checking first. Etc.

[Aidan3]

Does anyone agree that sometimes dogs can just have a bad day? Imagine you've had a terrible day at work, managed to hold it together all day, then get home and the kids say something that just tips you over the edge and you snap and say something rude. The kids didn't do anything particularly wrong, they weren't rude or ill-mannered or poorly socialised or over-the-top - they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time so they copped it.

Who knows? Maybe the other dog had had enough of being polite to friendly dogs for the day so the next friendly dog just copped it? Or maybe he'd been attacked earlier, so the man was just re-introducing his dog to other dogs from a safe distance?

[poochiemama]

Dogs parks are risky places, that is for sure. However, I'm serious when I say that if a particular dog is dog aggressive, whether it's with all other dogs in all situations or just when it is approached whilst on lead in a dog park and it is likely to do serious damage to the other dog, it shouldn't be there.

When walking my dogs, I'm approached by off leash dogs in the street regularly and that's a different story and they have been attacked. Of course the owners should not let their dogs wander, they can be attack or be attacked by dogs who are being walked on lead by responsible owners or hit by a car.

Taking a dog aggressive dog to a dog park, even if on the lead is not responsible. It's like giving a paedophile a job in a kindergarten - something's likely to happen sooner or later.

At one of our large local dog off leash parks a couple of years ago I saw a woman with a staffy on a lead in the middle of the park. I was picking up one of my dog's poop and walking towards the bin when I heard a yelp. Yes, it was one of my friendly little dogs weighing about 4.5 kilos who'd gone up to say hello to the staffy (not bounce, not attack but yes, guilty of being friendly with other dogs). I rushed over and the woman said "My dog doesn't like other dogs, I told your dog to go away but he didn't".

Should I have walked in reverse towards the bin so I could have watched 100% of the time? It's not realistic.

I still cannot understand why she put everyone elses' dogs at risk and told her just that. Antisocial dogs don't belong there.

I completely agree with this. I don't believe off leash dogs should be running around in suburban areas but an off-leash park is a different story.

The last park we used to go to was a fenced go park with up to 30 or 40 dogs running around off leash. There was this lady who used to come in to the park with her DA dog on leash and , seriously, EVERY SINGLE TIME we were there, this dog would make serious attacks on other dogs, most of which were in his 'personal space' which was anywhere within it's vicinity. She would always blame other dog owners and other dogs for these attacks. She then got to the point where she would actually take this dog off it's leash, leading to more frequent and more vulgar attacks. I just couldn't guarantee the safety of our dogs anymore so we had to stop going there, which was a real shame because out of the other 40 dogs, all the other dogs were friendly. Her argument was 'this dog got in my dog's face'. Bloody ridiculous, this is used as an excuse all the time and i'm sick of it. Especially in an offleash area where you know this is bound to happen at some point.

The sad thing is, at the dog park at the time Hannah got attacked, there was a small puppy too and he was just about to run up to the same dog when Hannah got attacked. I'm not sure that dog parks like that are the best place for a small puppy, but the truth of the matter is, there ARE puppies there who don't know any better, there will be dogs who will try and play etc with DA dogs...it's just a fact of life, these are busy parks, there are dog owners who don't read DOL. And if that little puppy had run up to that dog , he would have been very, very badly hurt.

[poochiemama]

Aidan2,

i think that is possible, and i've never made any judgement call on that particular dog because we don't know it's circumstances. And I have said, we don't know if this was the first time or if it has happened before.

Still though...it wasn't a little 'warning' or getting a bit annoyed, it was a serious attack, he had his jaw around her throat and face, it was so difficult to separate them and she was quite injured; he drew blood and punctured the skin.

I can't imagine my ('rude/boisterous' or whatever you want to call them) labrador EVER doing that, no matter how annoyed he got. He has had dogs/puppies/children jumping all over him, playing with him, pulling his tail etc. and kept cool through it all.

Humans, though, are much more than capable of this sort of thing I can tell you, the next day after this incident, I told a colleague at work, 'Had a crappy night last night, this dog attacked my dog' and his response was 'Oh. Just get another dog'. And i can tell you it didn't go down too well

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

this is why i do not use off leash dog parks its an accident waiting to happen.

we have no idea of the amount of training or control other people have over their dogs.

[Guest]

so when i went to the dog park this morning with my 2 JRT and a big dog (no not a lab ) was all over my 2 dogs and i still had them on leads until the sniffing was over as a precaution and I said i was just being cautious until i had seen my dogs reactions and the other dog owner said "oh, it's ok if your dog bites" I did do the right thing by simply leaving and walking my dogs outside the park until she left....

who thinks it is ok if any dog bites?????????

so maybe anyone who has a dog that bites can go and play with that ladies dog because she lets other dogs bite hers.

[Remarkabull]

so when i went to the dog park this morning with my 2 JRT and a big dog (no not a lab ) was all over my 2 dogs and i still had them on leads until the sniffing was over as a precaution and I said i was just being cautious until i had seen my dogs reactions and the other dog owner said "oh, it's ok if your dog bites" I did do the right thing by simply leaving and walking my dogs outside the park until she left....

who thinks it is ok if any dog bites?????????

so maybe anyone who has a dog that bites can go and play with that ladies dog because she lets other dogs bite hers.

Don't know this lady so can't be sure but maybe she meant that if your (little) dogs told of (by snapping at) her big dog that her dog wouldn't react aggressively? Not the smartest thing I know, but sometimes getting 'told off' by other dogs might help teach another dog some manners and when to back off and leave them alone?

My JRT bitch was at the beach once and was snapped at by a kelpie. The owner of the kelpie was upset and telling her dog off for doing it but I said don't worry about it my JRT was asking for it. She kept chasing the kelpie and barking at it and wouldn't come back to me when I called her so It was to be expected that this dog would eventually get the shits and snap at mine.

I will add before I get flamed that the JRT is no longer allowed off lead while there are other dogs around.

[Danois]

You know off lead park does not mean dogs can't be on lead in it - just that they're allowed to be off lead (provided they are under effective control) if the owner chooses.

[malsrock]

This thread has completely degenerated.

Now it's become a bashing of dogs on lead vs dogs off lead. 'Where's your lead you moron' and incidents of dogs running up to other dogs on a walk through the suburbs.

This was an OFFLEASH dog park.

As for socialisation, maybe if some of these dogs were more socialised, this sort of thing wouldn't happen. My dogs are socialised, friendly, NOT RUDE/BOISTEROUS (again more assumptions and judgemental opinions in what's become lynch mobbing) and yet dog owners like me are now being accused of 'too much socialisation', 'too friendly'.

Not to mention all the crap about labradors; i am SO SICK of lab-bashing; I have a lab myself as have many other people, and I don't need to list their virtues. It amazes me that labs are blamed for being 'exuberant' 'overfriendly' when nothing is said about the rude and aggro dogs who haven't been socialised and can't handle a dog coming up to sniff them, which IS normal dog behaviour.

I agree that it is good to bounce ideas around to find the best solutions for our dogs, but this thread is NOT that - this is a 'i'm right , you're wrong, my dog is so well-trained, yours is not' kind of thread. There is no constructive debate going on.

My original post did not ask for sympathy. I just asked for TWO things:

1. Is this going to traumatise Hannah in the future?

2. How do you best break up a dog fight?

There have been some supportive people on this thread and I thank you for that; because there are some lovely people on the forum, i'm not going to let this put me off the forums. But there are also a lot of self-righteous people who just want to prove a point.

Poochiemama,

Seriously, yes being attacked can traumatise your dog, it can cause a dog to develop dog aggression or flight behaviour and destabilise their nerve platform and if you are happy to expose your dog to those possibilities, it's your dog, your call.

How best to break up a dog fight IMHO is closing the gate after the horse has bolted and prevention is better than cure. Personally, I would prefer to learn how to avoid dog fights than how to break them up, but that is just my opinion, some will agree and some won't

Fiona

[malsrock]

Not to mention all the crap about labradors; i am SO SICK of lab-bashing; I have a lab myself as have many other people, and I don't need to list their virtues. It amazes me that labs are blamed for being 'exuberant' 'overfriendly' when nothing is said about the rude and aggro dogs who haven't been socialised and can't handle a dog coming up to sniff them, which IS normal dog behaviour.

There is a HUGE difference between a dog politely approaching another one and sniffing it and a dog rushing up to another dog, getting in its face, completely disregarding the other dogs body language, and being plain rude. I see this with labs ALL the time, and no its not just restricted to that breed, but if I hear one more person with an over the top, rude dog who allows it to rush up and get in the face of whatever dog it pleases, tell me their dog is "just being friendly and saying hello" I will have to shoot someone

I feel the same way Huski

[Guest Clover]

Not to mention all the crap about labradors; i am SO SICK of lab-bashing; I have a lab myself as have many other people, and I don't need to list their virtues. It amazes me that labs are blamed for being 'exuberant' 'overfriendly' when nothing is said about the rude and aggro dogs who haven't been socialised and can't handle a dog coming up to sniff them, which IS normal dog behaviour.

There is a HUGE difference between a dog politely approaching another one and sniffing it and a dog rushing up to another dog, getting in its face, completely disregarding the other dogs body language, and being plain rude. I see this with labs ALL the time, and no its not just restricted to that breed, but if I hear one more person with an over the top, rude dog who allows it to rush up and get in the face of whatever dog it pleases, tell me their dog is "just being friendly and saying hello" I will have to shoot someone

I feel the same way Huski

I agree Huski. I have lost count the amount of times i have heard the old 'my dog is friendly/ just wants to say hello'. Thats ok but not my problem when my very reactive dog bites your friendly dog on the nose.

Edited because i said dogs, it is only one not all .

Edited September 4, 2010 by Clover